Offseason Targets

[bmags]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

One thing I think worth reiterating is our young core is going to continue getting more and more expensive in the coming years.  So while we should have payroll flexibility in the near term, we do need to find some spots where we can go cheap to help offset future rising costs.

I keep seeing people saying let’s trade for Conforto, Yelich, Harper, etc. and those deals are highly unlikely IMO.  I truly believe the Sox will sign one of Oscar Colas or Yoelkis Cespedes to be the long-term answer to RF this winter.  With a lineup a lineup that should be amongst the best in baseball come the 2022 season, we can afford to go with a young RF in the 8th spot and not impact our ability to compete.  Getting a one year stop-gap like Joc or Brantley makes way more sense than taking on a massive contract that will prevent us from filling other holes.

IMO, if we have the ability to add one impact free agent or take on a big contract this offseason, it should definitely be for a TOR starter.  If this post season showed us anything it’s that we are at least one arm short in our rotation and can’t afford to rely on all three of Kopech, Cease, & Dunning at the same time.  Go fairly cheap with RF, get creative with the bullpen, and spend your financial resources on the rotation.

I think this is right - but the added benefit is the outfield free agents next offseason are excellent.

I am more in tune with some calls last year for some modest players. More than impact, balance. RF needs to be good v RHP, but also would help to be higher OBP or at least sub 20% k rate.

A team worth watching is ATL, they made a surplus of OF this year and have two prospects worth moving in or trading. There will be odd men out.

We also may see a better than typical number of players not see their options picked up.

[bmags]

Also: I think we should really consider Odorizzi this year

[EloyJenkins]

TOR guy is important because Sox got the absolute best out of Keuchel this year. I highly doubt he is that good the rest of his contract, so you need to strike for at least two years of someone else to be reliable, eat innings and win against the best #2 of any other AL team

[bmags]

26 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

TOR guy is important because Sox got the absolute best out of Keuchel this year. I highly doubt he is that good the rest of his contract, so you need to strike for at least two years of someone else to be reliable, eat innings and win against the best #2 of any other AL team

I don’t disagree but I also don’t want to force it and pay for a #2 as a #1. Get upper average depth and wait for one to be available (and develop the hell out of our prospects to make sure we have pieces of its via trade)

[Two-Gun Pete]

50 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

TOR guy is important because Sox got the absolute best out of Keuchel this year. I highly doubt he is that good the rest of his contract, so you need to strike for at least two years of someone else to be reliable, eat innings and win against the best #2 of any other AL team

I actually don't believe that Keuchel will decline as many here assume.

 

Remember, last season, he was signed late in FA, and only ended up with 112 or so IP. This year, due to COVID, he only had 60 or so IP.

 

IOW, although he's a soon to be 33 year old SP, he's also only had the equivalent of 1 season's worth of wear & tear between 2019 & 2020. So, I'm more confident that he'll be able to sustain his performance for longer. He's 33, but his arm might only be 31.

[pcq]

21 hours ago, ejm3 said:

1. New Manager, 2. Completely new coaching staff...especially a new pitching coach...Don Cooper is worthless. 4. Get rid of hitters Encarnacion and Mazara. 5. Find a solid DH ( hopefully Andrew Vaughn is ready for that slot) and find a productive power hitting right fielder. 6. Lose pitchers Cordero, Fry and Gonzalez in the bullpen. Other than these obvious moves, the most important move is to get a new manager with an excellent coaching staff. some of our young pitchers are ultra talented and just need a real coach to work on their pitches and mechanics. The same goes on the hitting side. We need to have someone fine tune our hitters so they learn to be more patient at the plate and not swing at so many pitches outside the zone.  

Thanks for playing. You did not win any money but will receive our 2016 home version of White Sox Baseball. 

[SkokieSox]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

I don’t disagree but I also don’t want to force it and pay for a #2 as a #1. Get upper average depth and wait for one to be available (and develop the hell out of our prospects to make sure we have pieces of its via trade)

Bauer could be a TOR starter that positively influences the young starters. I think we have the depth, we need to make sure we don’t discount who is working with them. For all the criticism Coop gets, he does work well with our pitchers in building confidence. If we can mesh that with an analytics type of approach, it may be the best of both worlds. Could be a disaster, I realize... but winning cures all woes, and I’m onboard with this gamble.

[jamesdiego]

A lot of people looking for some high priced free agents to be signed, but I’m worried Jerry might cheap out.  What did he say before, that the organization lost 100 million dollars this year?  Probably going over the numbers and debating it all out.  I can very well see him cry poor and reveal his empty pockets.  
 

We desperately need at least one very good starting pitcher, I would highly prefer someone better than Q.  If Q is our best starting pitcher we bring in, that doesn’t really instill a whole lot of confidence for our hopeful window years for championship.  I’m just hopeful for at least one good starting pitcher, no chance I see two.  And I believe we have to see what we have with our young starters anyways to bring in two starters.  Maybe a swing long relief arm, but for god sakes  do some pro scouting and find someone who at least still has a major league arm(Gonzales? Wtf?)   

 

I personally think it would be a mistake to let Colome go and we will regret it trying to do a spring training competition with our young guys or a closer by committee.  We need to add a veteran arm in the bullpen, not take one away.  
 

McCann would be nice, but I’m not expecting that.  A nice shiny new expensive RF would also be nice, but I’m expecting Mazara to get most of the at bats.  
 

One thing they can do to improve and not have to break the bank is a new manager, but with our outdated mom and pop front office I’m not expecting them to make the obvious move to improve there.  Loyalty might win out again.  
 

Hoping I’m wrong and there are some major free agents and we have a competent manager that doesn’t use his gut for decisions.  

[soxfan49]

11 minutes ago, SkokieSox said:

Bauer could be a TOR starter that positively influences the young starters. I think we have the depth, we need to make sure we don’t discount who is working with them. For all the criticism Coop gets, he does work well with our pitchers in building confidence. If we can mesh that with an analytics type of approach, it may be the best of both worlds. Could be a disaster, I realize... but winning cures all woes, and I’m onboard with this gamble.

Well yeah

[SkokieSox]

2 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

Well yeah

?

[bmags]

40 minutes ago, SkokieSox said:

Bauer could be a TOR starter that positively influences the young starters. I think we have the depth, we need to make sure we don’t discount who is working with them. For all the criticism Coop gets, he does work well with our pitchers in building confidence. If we can mesh that with an analytics type of approach, it may be the best of both worlds. Could be a disaster, I realize... but winning cures all woes, and I’m onboard with this gamble.

Not saying Bauer isn’t, but there will be a lot of suitors for him and we can’t guarantee we get him. The yanks may very well throw around cash. It would be a hilarious fit,  if Bauer’s gone that’s where I’m saying don’t force it.

[EloyJenkins]

No payroll excuses. The Bulls fired their manager and completely rebuilt an expensive front office after losing a ton of revenue as well. Put up or shut up before you die Jerry.

[GreatScott82]

43 minutes ago, jamesdiego said:

A lot of people looking for some high priced free agents to be signed, but I’m worried Jerry might cheap out.  What did he say before, that the organization lost 100 million dollars this year?  Probably going over the numbers and debating it all out.  I can very well see him cry poor and reveal his empty pockets.  
 

We desperately need at least one very good starting pitcher, I would highly prefer someone better than Q.  If Q is our best starting pitcher we bring in, that doesn’t really instill a whole lot of confidence for our hopeful window years for championship.  I’m just hopeful for at least one good starting pitcher, no chance I see two.  And I believe we have to see what we have with our young starters anyways to bring in two starters.  Maybe a swing long relief arm, but for god sakes  do some pro scouting and find someone who at least still has a major league arm(Gonzales? Wtf?)   

 

I personally think it would be a mistake to let Colome go and we will regret it trying to do a spring training competition with our young guys or a closer by committee.  We need to add a veteran arm in the bullpen, not take one away.  
 

McCann would be nice, but I’m not expecting that.  A nice shiny new expensive RF would also be nice, but I’m expecting Mazara to get most of the at bats.  
 

One thing they can do to improve and not have to break the bank is a new manager, but with our outdated mom and pop front office I’m not expecting them to make the obvious move to improve there.  Loyalty might win out again.  
 

Hoping I’m wrong and there are some major free agents and we have a competent manager that doesn’t use his gut for decisions.  

Didn’t the Sox make record profits during the 2017, 2018 and 2019 seasons with having very low payrolls? I know the 2020 COVID season hurt every team’s budget at some capacity, but im not buying the Reinsdorf crying poor thing. They still have plenty of $$ to spend on acquisitions, now if they decide to not go ahead and do so, then it’s JR just revealing his #1 priority is actually saving his people $$ and not winning. Even at his very advanced age.

Edited October 4, 2020 by GreatScott82

[Backwash07]

I am new to this site and am excited to join to talk to passionate sox fans. 

My offseason plan revolves around acquiring Lorenzo Cain.  He has two years and 35 million left on his contract.  After opting out for this season the Brewers may have soured on him.  He would add competent offense and above average right field play.  He would not block for too long any Cuban outfielder being signed which is a hope of mine in January.  The package for him I think may be less than anticipated due to the salary attached.  Thoughts? 

[ron883]

6 minutes ago, Backwash07 said:

I am new to this site and am excited to join to talk to passionate sox fans. 

My offseason plan revolves around acquiring Lorenzo Cain.  He has two years and 35 million left on his contract.  After opting out for this season the Brewers may have soured on him.  He would add competent offense and above average right field play.  He would not block for too long any Cuban outfielder being signed which is a hope of mine in January.  The package for him I think may be less than anticipated due to the salary attached.  Thoughts? 

Eh... Right handed CFer who is turning 35. Im not convinced he would be any more valuable than Adam Engel going forward. No thanks.

[fathom]

1 minute ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Eh... Right handed CFer who is turning 35. Im not convinced he would be any more valuable than Adam Engel going forward. No thanks.

He also looked horrendous in 2019

[South Side Hit Men]

21 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Are the Marlins willing to pay $12.5 million for a veteran in his final contract year for a full season?  Without fans?

When have the Marlins ever had any fans? Despite that fact, they still won two World Series as an expansion franchise, and may have a third before year end. 

Perhaps the White Sox will advance in the playoffs more than once in the next forty seasons. We can only hope.

[southsider2k5]

2 hours ago, GreatScott82 said:

Didn’t the Sox make record profits during the 2017, 2018 and 2019 seasons with having very low payrolls? I know the 2020 COVID season hurt every team’s budget at some capacity, but im not buying the Reinsdorf crying poor thing. They still have plenty of $$ to spend on acquisitions, now if they decide to not go ahead and do so, then it’s JR just revealing his #1 priority is actually saving his people $$ and not winning. Even at his very advanced age.

This team lost all of its gate money and 2/3 of its TV money.

[Backwash07]

Fair enough on Cain. Another player with some similarities is Charlie Blackmon.  Rockies are potentially trying to unload some salary(he has 21 million coming next year as well as two player options in 2022 and 2023).  Adding a left handed bat is desirable.  He may be able to fill that second spot in order which was a revolving door this year.  Again there are warts like Cain, but I do not think he would cost much in prospect capital and would not be asked to fill this role long term.  

[SkokieSox]

2 hours ago, bmags said:

Not saying Bauer isn’t, but there will be a lot of suitors for him and we can’t guarantee we get him. The yanks may very well throw around cash. It would be a hilarious fit,  if Bauer’s gone that’s where I’m saying don’t force it.

That’s totally fair, and I’m good with it if it shakes out that way.

[ron883]

1 minute ago, Backwash07 said:

Fair enough on Cain. Another player with some similarities is Charlie Blackmon.  Rockies are potentially trying to unload some salary(he has 21 million coming next year as well as two player options in 2022 and 2023).  Adding a left handed bat is desirable.  He may be able to fill that second spot in order which was a revolving door this year.  Again there are warts like Cain, but I do not think he would cost much in prospect capital and would not be asked to fill this role long term.  

In Blackmon's 2019 season (using the last full season), he had a 1.174 OPS in Coors Field and a .731 OPS away from Coors. Given his age, contract and below average defense that will only get worse, no thanks to him as well.

[GreatScott82]

11 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

This team lost all of its gate money and 2/3 of its TV money.

Yes. This happened to every organization in baseball in 2020. My point was that during the previous 3 years (2017-19), the Sox netted amazing profits due to a very low payroll. Although they took a hit in 2020, you would think they would still have a pool of $$ to allocate toward the roster in 2021. I’m aware this team isn’t the Cubs, Red Sox, Yankees or Dodgers, but they should have money to spend on at least one more premium player. Not to mention the Encarnacion and Gio Gonzalez team options will likely be declined, saving them another $20 million. 
 

Ive read reports that some teams will be desperately trying to shed payroll this winter because of the economic hit COVID had on their budget. The White Sox should take advantage of this as they should still have cushion from the low payroll rebuild years. 

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, GreatScott82 said:

Yes. This happened to every organization in baseball in 2020. My point was that during the previous 3 years (2017-19), the Sox netted amazing profits due to a very low payroll. Although they took a hit in 2020, you would think they would still have a pool of $$ to allocate toward the roster in 2021. I’m aware this team isn’t the Cubs, Red Sox, Yankees or Dodgers, but they should have money to spend on at least one more premium player. Not to mention the Encarnacion and Gio Gonzalez team options will likely be declined, saving them another $20 million. 
 

Ive read reports that some teams will be desperately trying to shed payroll this winter because of the economic hit COVID had on their budget. The White Sox should take advantage of this as they should still have cushion from the low payroll rebuild years. 

This team has 20 million in raises to give to people already under contract. That is even before guys like Giolito hit arbitration. 

[bmags]

The perfect DH in terms of improving our weaknesses may well be Tommy La Stella I’d we can convince him.

Just to add to this, he is a low K% guy with a 130+ WRC+ vs RHP

[he gone.]

This may be long winded, but I really like to write these more for myself than anything so I can look back on my own thoughts. 

First thing that comes to mind are teams like the Rangers that are actively saying they'll be cutting payroll. I don't think they'll be the only ones. It's times like this I wish our owner wasn't JR, because this is about a perfect of a storm you'll ever get. You have a young, talented team, coming into form, ready to take that next step - meaning, winning a playoff series, possibly competing for a pennant if things all go right. I'm probably the poster you hate to hear, but I realistically never really believed this team was coming out the other end ... just couldn't realistically expect Dunning, Rodon, Cease to carry the back end of the rotation through a playoff grind and against playoff lineups. I think realistically, that's the same problem next year. You have a lot of arms, but we really need 2-3 of them to take that next step to where they can be counted on consistently. So is that Stiever, Cease? Crochet, etc I'm not so sure at this point. At this point my level of confidence is this order: Dunning, Kopech, Cease, Crochet (he'd be my number 2 in that last if I knew more about his injury, part of me thinks he'll come back and blow out his arm in ST or something) Steiver. I think realistically you're going to see a few steps back out of Keuchel, and that's fine. But that really means we need some of these guys to step up this year. I think this year was a bit unfortunate becasue over a 162 game season we would've been able to test drive a lot of these guys and build up some innings. Next year is going to be a grind, and some of these guys may start off hot, but can they keep that up through September and into October? This team will go as far as the rotation takes it. 

Which leads me to my next point - we need Bauer. I've been a backer of his and continue to be. Would we have TOO MUCH pitching? Maybe, but at the same time, we all know injuries happen and championship teams always have LUXURY at positions. Look at the yankees, injuries happen and they continue to win. That's a sign of a team with depth. Same with the Astros of years past, Cubs, etc. So to me, you bring in Bauer and just roll. If you have injuries like the Padres did at the end of the season, instead of having nobody ... (still don't get why they didn't pitch Gore or Patino more) you now have Cease, Steiver, Kopech, etc. to step up. 

Other SP I'd consider are Rich Hill and Alex Wood and Corey Kluber. Same as last season. Those guys CAN step in and win you playoff games. Those guys are also cheap, 1-2 year deals, and only going to give you 100ip because of injuries. Which, with our amount of possible SP? Can be a good thing. Outside of that? I pass on the SP out there. 

Bullpen: I think we're good, but always can look to add. 

Offense: I mean, you look around and you say where are the holes? Fortunately there aren't many. RF is obvious, but outside of that you really don't need anything if you believe in Engel as your 4OF, Mendick as your back UTIL IF, and Collins/Mercedes as your backup C. I for one am in that category. 

 

So where can we improve ... I mean I think you have to be content, and likely happy with Vaughn at DH/1B, so nothing there. Abreu isn't going anywhere. Madrigal/Anderson either. Moncada? This will take heat, but I call him Joe Crede. type of guy who CAN be a game changer, but more likely will be a nice bat, nice glove, but never reach his potential. I would be open to trading him (mostly because who else as you continue to go around the diamond -- not Eloy, not Robert, etc) but there's nobody waiting in the wings...so il think you're set almost every except for RF. So really the ONLY player I COULD see trading is Moncada. Which I'm not saying we should do at all. Just food for thought as I compose this post. 

What YOU can do. As teams are cutting costs, you can pick up guys who's contracts aren't ideal, a bit bloated, etc. but for free. So essentially a FA signing. Also the contracts in the offseason should be smaller ... so I'd like to be aggressive in this front. 

Names for Consideration: 

Chris Sale, Xander Boegarts (again this is where maybe getting creative with Yoan which nets you a SP could work in a way ... trade a Yoan then trade for Xander -- it's a little bit video game'esque, but there are going to be franchises looking to dump salary, so i think you can explore all options), Charlie Blackmon (Rox pay for part of contract or include a Hampson, Rodgers, Gray, etc.) Lorenzo Cain, Avi Garcia, Starling Marte, Springer. 

 

Weird thing is if you look to all the CF and RF on teams right now? Not that many viable options, or sure less than I expected. 

 

Sorry for the nature of this post.. it was really top of mind type of writing ... in synopsis ... i think you talk to the red sox and see what they're willing to do and for what price. i think its conceivable to get a Sale (if you're comfortable with his health), Xander, JD Martinez (the last two really don't have much of a spot unless other moves are made) I think you also call the Rockies who need to shed payroll, have some talent, and can find a match ... aka pairing an expensive RF like Blackmon (i understand the splits, age, etc. etc.) and maybe net yourself a nice other piece... Marquez, Gray, Hampson, Dahl, Rodgers, etc. Likewise, someone like Lorenzo Cain in RF, or Avi ... could make some sense too. 

My ideal offseason:

Net me Sale, Bauer, Kluber as tier 1 choices. Stroman, Hill, Wood as Tier 2 choices - but please net me at least one outside arm that CAN be a difference maker in the playoffs. So don't mess around with Quintana and Robbie Rays of the world. 

OF - Tier one: Lorenzo Cain, Springer, Starling Marte, Blackmon (w a prospect or talent attached -- aka Gray, Marquez, Rodgers(not sure where you put him unless part of bigger trade/offseason). 

UTIL - acquire a nice vet, not really necessary in my opinion - I am super comfortable w Engel and Mendick + Leury etc. but maybe you make a move.

Only guy I'd be willing to trade from our exisiting "core" is Yoan Moncada, i understand that is unlikely to happen, and would need several corresponding moves to make sense (aka Xander or Rodgers, or something, without those being net positive, not sure it's truly worth the risk unless you're receiving back a bonafide ace in return).