Chicago White Sox Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, Flash said: 3 offseason moves for a ring... 1) trade for Darvish...guessing Cease and sweetener gets it done (Rodon seems like a guy Cubs might feel they can wring some mileage out of) 2) blockbuster trade with Milwaukee for Burnes...yes, this will likely require sending Brewers one of our key pieces we are all so emotionally attached to 3) sign Colome and/or Hand These moves likely consume any available budget so we go with what we have in RF which I'm fine with if it means 1) Giolito 2) Burnes 3) Darvish 4) Keuchel 5) Dunning/Kopech The biggest challenge will be to pry Burnes away from Brewers but, if we can get over the initial angst of dealing one of our beloved, this rotation and lineup might win 105-110 games for each of the next 3 years and beyond. Please stop with your trade Eloy campaign. I know you didn’t say his name, but that is exactly what you are implying and it’s insanity. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, Flash said: 3 offseason moves for a ring... 1) trade for Darvish...guessing Cease and sweetener gets it done (Rodon seems like a guy Cubs might feel they can wring some mileage out of) 2) blockbuster trade with Milwaukee for Burnes...yes, this will likely require sending Brewers one of our key pieces we are all so emotionally attached to 3) sign Colome and/or Hand These moves likely consume any available budget so we go with what we have in RF which I'm fine with if it means 1) Giolito 2) Burnes 3) Darvish 4) Keuchel 5) Dunning/Kopech The biggest challenge will be to pry Burnes away from Brewers but, if we can get over the initial angst of dealing one of our beloved, this rotation and lineup might win 105-110 games for each of the next 3 years and beyond. I'd be OK giving up one of our main prospects if we ended up with Burnes and that rotation ... jeez, that's insane. Don't know why the brewers would move Burnes tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Flash said: 3 offseason moves for a ring... 1) trade for Darvish...guessing Cease and sweetener gets it done (Rodon seems like a guy Cubs might feel they can wring some mileage out of) 2) blockbuster trade with Milwaukee for Burnes...yes, this will likely require sending Brewers one of our key pieces we are all so emotionally attached to 3) sign Colome and/or Hand These moves likely consume any available budget so we go with what we have in RF which I'm fine with if it means 1) Giolito 2) Burnes 3) Darvish 4) Keuchel 5) Dunning/Kopech The biggest challenge will be to pry Burnes away from Brewers but, if we can get over the initial angst of dealing one of our beloved, this rotation and lineup might win 105-110 games for each of the next 3 years and beyond. Ah yeah, the classic "this rotation would dominate baseball for five years" statement. It's not as if one team had: Thor Wheeler DeGrom Matz Harvey And was trash. There is no worse strategy in baseball than going all in on pitching by trading away young and damn good position players. In order to have a long period of sustained success you absolutely MUST develop pitchers in house and fill one or two gaps with FA but no more. You can't spend a big part of your FA money on pitching, and you can't trade serious position player assets for pitchers because pitchers are volatile as can be. Let your 162 guys carry the load, and develop and draft arms internally. This is where the Cubs failed and where the Sox truly can excel. Edited November 19, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Ah yeah, the classic "this rotation would dominate baseball for five years" statement. It's not as if one team had: Thor Wheeler DeGrom Matz Harvey And was trash. There is no worse strategy in baseball than going all in on pitching by trading away young and damn good position players. In order to have a long period of sustained success you absolutely MUST develop pitchers in house and fill one or two gaps with FA but no more. You can't spend a big part of your FA money on pitching, and you can't trade serious assets for pitchers because pitchers are volatile as can be. Respectfully disagree. Darvish for Cease and chum is a no-brainer and if you can somehow trade for Burnes, why on earth wouldn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Just now, Flash said: Respectfully disagree. Darvish for Cease and chum is a no-brainer and if you can somehow trade for Burnes, why on earth wouldn't you? Who is Chum? Who would you trade for Burnes? If you're moving viable ++ position players from the MLB roster to trade for volatile pitching you will fail 9 out of 10 times. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Please stop with your trade Eloy campaign. I know you didn’t say his name, but that is exactly what you are implying and it’s insanity. Am I that transparent ? Personally, I'd be fine parting with Vaughn in trade but he wouldn't be near enough. Maybe something like Vaughn, Stiever (local kid) plus Flores and fillers. All depends on Brewers priorities (they need positional help everywhere). But, yeah, now that you mentioned it, I'd trade Eloy for Burnes straight up. Doubt Brewers would though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Flash said: Am I that transparent ? Personally, I'd be fine parting with Vaughn in trade but he wouldn't be near enough. Maybe something like Vaughn, Stiever (local kid) plus Flores and fillers. All depends on Brewers priorities (they need positional help everywhere). But, yeah, now that you mentioned it, I'd trade Eloy for Burnes straight up. Doubt Brewers would though. ? The Brewers would drive Burnes here on a bicycle with him riding on the pegs to bring him here. Edited November 19, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Who is Chum? Who would you trade for Burnes? If you're moving viable ++ position players from the MLB roster to trade for volatile pitching you will fail 9 out of 10 times. When you characterize position players as viable and pitching as volatile as though that is the rule, of course teams shouldn't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear_brian Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Trading Eloy for Burnes might get graded as one of baseball's worst trades. Burnes is not even rated in the top tier of big league pitchers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, bear_brian said: Trading Eloy for Burnes might get graded as one of baseball's worst trades. Burnes is not even rated in the top tier of big league pitchers. According to what rating system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Flash said: When you characterize position players as viable and pitching as volatile as though that is the rule, of course teams shouldn't do it. Eloy Jimenez is a safe bet to be a damn good big leaguer for a long time. As a 23 year old he had a 141 wRC+. Corbin Burnes has thrown 146 big league innings at 26 years old and has a 4.48 ERA and 3.85 FIP. Prior to the past 60 game season, Corbin had a negative WAR. He had a nice little season last year and he might be a nice arm for a few years. You don't trade a locked up 23 year old hitter who has elite offensive skills for Corbin Burnes. Edited November 19, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Just now, Flash said: According to what rating system? Reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Eloy Jimenez is a safe bet to be a damn good big leaguer for a long time. As a 23 year old he had a 141 wRC+. Corbin Burnes has thrown 146 big league innings at 26 years old and has a 4.48 ERA and 3.85 FIP. Prior to the past 60 game season, Corbin had a negative WAR. He had a nice little season last year and he might be a nice arm for a few years. You don't trade a locked up 23 year old hitter who should elite skills for Corbin Burnes. Imagine trading six years of cheap Eloy and the Burnes goes down with TJS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 9 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: ? The Brewers would drive Burnes here on a bicycle with him riding on the pegs to bring him here. I love Eloy....and I would strongly consider that trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, fathom said: I love Eloy....and I would strongly consider that trade. Well, that's just completely whacko. Not only has Eloy been a better player to-date while being 4 years younger, but he's also controlled for two extra years. Edited November 19, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Imagine trading six years of cheap Eloy and the Burnes goes down with TJS! Thank god we can count on Eloy for never getting injured Sox won’t trade Eloy, but this isn’t exactly as lopsided as trading Luis Robert for Lance Lynn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: ? The Brewers would drive Burnes here on a bicycle with him riding on the pegs to bring him here. Not sure why you say that. 25 years old, 4 years of cheap control and among best peripheral metrics among pitchers. If philisophically, you don't trade for pitchers due to injury risk or fears they will forget how to pitch, thats one mans opinion. My point is adding Burnes to the rotation will translate to more wins than the retention of ANY of our positional players with possible exceptions of TA and Robert. I just use Eloy s example because he is of comparable value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 And don't get me wrong, Burnes is a nice piece but I'd rather shoot myself in the foot than trade a top tier young hitter who has proven he can succeed for an arm that has 60 successful innings under his belt. There are Corbin Burnes popping up every year; young guys who explode onto the scene and pitch real well; only to succumb to injury, or fall off, or diminished stuff, and on and on. I prefer young pitchers that haven't pitched in the big leagues, and older pitchers with a proven track record of health and success. That middle tier guy who hasn't proven himself but has look great in spots flames out over and over. It's why when I said German Marquez was the 13th ranked starter in baseball over the past three years some didn't believe it. Fact is, most guys aren't even healthy enough to pitch enough innings to earn enough value over three year periods. Durability is so important for a SP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Flash said: Not sure why you say that. 25 years old, 4 years of cheap control and among best peripheral metrics among pitchers. If philisophically, you don't trade for pitchers due to injury risk or fears they will forget how to pitch, thats one mans opinion. My point is adding Burnes to the rotation will translate to more wins than the retention of ANY of our positional players with possible exceptions of TA and Robert. I just use Eloy s example because he is of comparable value. Corbin Burnes is 26, he's never thrown more than 145 innings in a professional season. The last two years he threw 71 innings and 116 innings (not counting the 60 game season); I'm not hitching my rotation to that wagon; durability and proven ability to pitch deep into the season is 90% of a pitchers value when acquiring him IMO, and Burnes has never shown anyone he can throw a lot of innings and hold up and be successful. Again, he's a talented kid and could have a nice career. Eloy Jimenez is damn near guaranteed to be a 40+ HR guy for about 8 years. You don't move a guy with his bat and hitting ability for an unproven 26 year old SP during the middle of a contention window. Edited November 19, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 I'm very high on Burnes. I believe he has figured it out and will be among the best pitchers in the game (as he was in '20) for years to come. Of course there is always injury risk but you can't plan trades around it. As for Eloy, I don't disagree he can hit 40+ HRs/yr. and I'd prefer not trading him but can't come up with anyone else, other than maybe TA or Robert who might be of interest to Brewers. If we can package Vaughn as a headliner, I'd do that, but I stand by my belief that Burnes will be worth more wins than any of our positional players with the posible aforementioned exceptions. And if we can pull off acquiring Darvish AND Burnes....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Trading Eloy would make the corner outfield position really weak (prior to additions). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Is Flash the new Greg/Peavy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejoesox Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: Please stop with your trade Eloy campaign. I know you didn’t say his name, but that is exactly what you are implying and it’s insanity. are you serious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EloyJenkins Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 imagine wanting to trade a cornerstone of the rebuild and a perennial HR crown candidate...for not even the best pitcher on the Brewers staff. Woodruff or bust from the Brewers...even then I don't do Eloy for anyone, unless they are a top 10 pitcher in MLB with 3+ seasons of control. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Soxfan Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Eloy is almost untouchable, if he is healthy for the Oakland series, Sox win..........He signed to a great deal and he is only going to grow. He's a cornerstone and might be the best hitter on the team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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