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Offseason Targets


soxfan49

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4 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Like I said....I'm not completely sold on Vaughn. I have no doubts about him as a contact hitter, but I'm not sure he's a 30 HR guy. 

I could see him as a guy that hits .300+ every year with a ridiculous OBP but only hits 18-25 HR/season with 35-40 2B. 

I think a guy like Vaughn has value, but I'm not sure how much value he has as a 1B/DH only guy. 

The more I think about it, the more I lean toward him as a trade piece. 

Joey Votto in his age 25-33 seasons averaged 25 HRs and 34 2Bs, with triple slash of .315/.436/.544 and OPS+ of 162. Were you not sold on prime Joey Votto also?

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32 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

The definition of the ad absurdum argument. 

I told you guys that in my opinion there's 2 spots(DH, 1B) for 3 guys(Eloy, Abreu, Vaughn) and the I'm not sure that Vaughn is good enough defensively to play 1B. 

This isn't a fact, this is an opinion. It's not a problem as long as they continue to attempt to hide Eloy in LF. Unfortunately, that jeopardizes both Eloy and Robert's health. 

Vaughn is a hell of an offensive prospect and I'm not arguing that. What I'm arguing is whether or not he's completely blocked. 

BTW I can see the Konerko comps for his ceiling if you're talking about Paulie's best years. 

This is Parkman's opinion on roster construction. 

Sports forums are to discuss this type of stuff, right? 

Ok this is fine but then you comped him -offensively- to Casey Kotchman and used college stats to project that he will maybe hit 18-25 home runs.  

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6 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Joey Votto in his age 25-33 seasons averaged 25 HRs and 34 2Bs, with triple slash of .315/.436/.544 and OPS+ of 162. Were you not sold on prime Joey Votto also?

No....Sorry for the misinterpretation........I'm totally sold on him as an eventual contributor, but not sold on him being MLB ready on OD. Got it? 

And yeah, Votto is another possible outcome for Vaughn. If the plan is to continue to play Eloy in LF.....then by all means, keep Vaughn and add him to the untouchables list. However, moving, say, Vaughn and Cease for Snell and Eloy to DH creates more roster flexibility and potentially more lineup balance, albieit at a higher price tag. 

 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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7 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Ok this is fine but then you comped him -offensively- to Casey Kotchman and used college stats to project that he will maybe hit 18-25 home runs.  

I already corrected that. Youkilis is a much better comp. Kotchman was the first guy that came to mind.....forget that. Strike that from the conversation. It was just me thinking on the keyboard. 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

No....Sorry for the misinterpretation........I'm totally sold on him as an eventual contributor, but not sold on him being MLB ready on OD. Got it? 

And yeah, Votto is another possible outcome for Vaughn. 

 

But rest of your post suggests you'd trade him and he doesn't have much value. The projection you provided gave aligns with a player who totalled 62 career bWAR, and 149 career OPS+, the second best offensive 1B in the last decade.  Would you have traded Joey Votto? These guys do not grow on trees. I'll concede that Vaughn's defense is likely average to Votto's good to great, but Vaughn is still an extremely valuable piece if those projections hold true (and I don't think they're too off).

It just seems the projection you gave does not align with rest of your post. And if you truly believe in this projections, then you shouldn't trade that guy.

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6 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

But rest of your post suggests you'd trade him and he doesn't have much value. The projection you provided gave aligns with a player who totalled 62 career bWAR, and 149 career OPS+, the second best offensive 1B in the last decade.  Would you have traded Joey Votto? These guys do not grow on trees. I'll concede that Vaughn's defense is likely average to Votto's good to great, but Vaughn is still an extremely valuable piece if those projections hold true (and I don't think they're too off).

It just seems the projection you gave does not align with rest of your post. And if you truly believe in this projections, then you shouldn't trade that guy.

If they can find a spot for all three of Vaughn, Eloy and Abreu, then sure they can keep him. My opinion is that Vaughn is blocked until Abreu is no longer starting. I'm not sure I want a butcher in LF and a well below average defender at 1B. You can deal with one of those, but not both. 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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8 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

If they can find a spot for all three of Vaughn, Eloy and Abreu, then sure they can keep him. My opinion is that Vaughn is blocked until Abreu is no longer starting. I'm not sure I want a butcher in LF and a well below average defender at 1B. You can deal with one of those, but not both. 

Eloy, age 24, to DH talk is not going to happen for another couple of years, regardless of whether Vaughn and Abreu are on the team or not.

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3 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Eloy, age 24, to DH talk is not going to happen for another couple of years, regardless of whether Vaughn and Abreu are on the team or not.

I think that if they keep Eloy in LF it's only a matter of time before he and Robert hurt each other seriously. 

Moving Eloy to DH is more about protecting Robert than anything else. 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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9 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

 I'm not sure I want a butcher in LF and a well below average defender at 1B. 

You keep saying that but it doesn't make it so. You want everybody to believe because you saw him make an error in a training camp that everyone else, who rate his defense as above average, is wrong, and to disbelieve our own eyes. Sorry not buying it

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1 minute ago, Vulture said:

You keep saying that but it doesn't make it so. You want everybody to believe because you saw him make an error in a training camp that everyone else, who rate his defense as above average, is wrong, and to disbelieve our own eyes. Sorry not buying it

Ok, let's agree to disagree there then....I admit I haven't watched him all that much but he was horrid in the intrasquad games. Might have just had a bad couple weeks. 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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15 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

If they can find a spot for all three of Vaughn, Eloy and Abreu, then sure they can keep him. My opinion is that Vaughn is blocked until Abreu is no longer starting. I'm not sure I want a butcher in LF and a well below average defender at 1B. You can deal with one of those, but not both. 

Problem is that this statement is not true.  Your entire argument is that he is a "well below average" defender based on a couple of squad games and you admit you haven't watched him much otherwise.

Lol.

Edited by RagahRagah
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1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

I think that if they keep Eloy in LF it's only a matter of time before he and Robert hurt each other seriously. 

Moving Eloy to DH is more about protecting Robert than anything else. 

Of all the different things we could do to protect Robert’s health, we have reached a point where the only way to do so is to trade Vaughn, who projects to be one of the best hitters in the league.

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6 minutes ago, Rey21 said:

Maybe Jerry wasn’t lying and he did in fact lose a biblical amount of money.. 

People are saying that they are one of the teams that are going to spend money so I don’t buy this. I think they will spend money but just not splurge on one guy. Y2Jimmy0, also mentioned yesterday to be careful taking seriously public reports. 

Edited by maloney.adam
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