Offseason Targets

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

47 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

A post with the term perma-cripple, yet calling someone else fooking stoopid.

That is some comments section level of cognitive dissonance. 

Just, wow.

He's a hot hothead and refuses to be educated. Nothing we can do.I took the time to do the research and present a reasonable argument that fangraphs backs up which he probably didn't even read judging by him posting the same thing he did before. I had already admitted numerous times Dahl might not be a good choice because of his numerous injuries and the current one he is recovering from.

Edited December 4, 2020 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[maloney.adam]

2 hours ago, whitesoxbrad said:

My pick for right field if they go the trade route is Mike yastrzemski, just love everything about him, what do you think?

I would like Springer but I think they will sign Joc for RF. 

Edited December 4, 2020 by maloney.adam

[maloney.adam]

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Ok, so you're using another player (DJ Lemahieu) to justify acquiring a perma-cripple with decidedly pedestrian numbers? Are you serious?

Congratulations! You've successfully deployed  The Chewbacca Defense!

Weren't you also in favor of the Mazara acquisition? 

 

No offense, but squandering time and money on DL Dahl would be fooking stoopud. He honestly ain't that good, and he's always injured. Besides Springer (who I dont think the SOX will sign), there are several better options available.

Joc, JBJ, and FFS, since they're keeping (alleged) rapist Boston around, why not go full heel, and sign Puig?

Oh yeah: speeding tickets or something. 

Fuck, I'd rather re-acquire Avi than waste time and money and effort getting a guy like Dahl who honestly sucks away from Coors, and whose splits v RHP are artificially inflated because of Coors. He offers nothing to a team thats ready to compete. 

 

Dahl, like Mazara and Rodon, need to go to a tanking/rebuilding team to rescue their MLB careers. Underperforming perma-cripples don't need to be anywhere near a team that's trying to win.

Look smart guy. My arguments are well thought out. LeMahieu was one example I used. The articles I posted used other players in support of my arguments and the Coors effect that you probably didn't bother to read.

As far as Mazara goes. Yes I liked the signing as a possible low risk high reward approach. The Sox apparently saw it my way and it didn't work out and it didn't cost much money. Big deal.

As for Puig, no I didn't want to sign him and you did and apparently still do. Every single major league team agreed with me and not you.

I also didn't want EE and the Sox disagreed with me and it cost them a twice as much as signing Mazara. I would make those choices about Mazara , EE and Puig every time in the same situation.

I did present the type of contract I would sign Dahl to but only as a last resort and admitted in every post that his current injury and probable signing in February ruled him out as the main RF target. Stop twisting everything I say to feed your closed minded narrative.

Edited December 4, 2020 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Orlando]

So I just realized that NBC Sports is covering the “Virtual Winter Meetings” next week. I had no idea they were doing it at all. Maybe we get some movement and everyone can stop arguing about food accounts and players that will never play on the South Side.

 

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by Orlando

[maloney.adam]

20 minutes ago, Orlando said:

So I just realized that NBC Sports is covering the “Virtual Winter Meetings” next week. I had no idea they were doing it at all. Maybe we get some movement and everyone can stop arguing about food accounts and players that will never play on the South Side.

 

 

Oh great I’ll be hyped up and distracted next week. Lmao!

I didn’t know they were doing this as well. Thank you so much for sharing this!

Edited December 4, 2020 by maloney.adam

[shakes]

5 minutes ago, Orlando said:

So I just realized that NBC Sports is covering the “Virtual Winter Meetings” next week. I had no idea they were doing it at all. Maybe we get some movement and everyone can stop arguing about food accounts and players that will never play on the South Side.

 

 

I'll never stop arguing about either and you can't make me.

[Vulture]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

He's a hot hothead and refuses to be educated. Nothing we can do.I took the time to do the research and present a reasonable argument that fangraphs backs up which he probably didn't even read judging by him posting the same thing he did before. I had already admitted numerous times Dahl might not be a good choice because of his numerous injuries and the current one he is recovering from.

I thought it was an excellent post. **** 'em.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Vulture

[SonofaRoache]

1 hour ago, Orlando said:

So I just realized that NBC Sports is covering the “Virtual Winter Meetings” next week. I had no idea they were doing it at all. Maybe we get some movement and everyone can stop arguing about food accounts and players that will never play on the South Side.

 

 

Yeah Okay NBC. MLB has by far the worst free agency. It is a joke to be honest. 

Edited December 4, 2020 by SonofaRoache

[Two-Gun Pete]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Look smart guy. My arguments are well thought out. LeMahieu was one example I used. The articles I posted used other players in support of my arguments and the Coors effect that you probably didn't bother to read.

Cali, I'm not calling YOU stoopud. I'm calling the idea of Dahl stoopud.

I pointed out a YAWNING ~200 point difference in OPS between Dahl at Coors, and Dahl everywhere else. (.918 to .722) Thats the difference between a hall of fame player, and Avi Garcia. 

Your post was The Chewbacca Defense, which is a diversionary rhetorical tactic to avoid the real issue at hand. The real issue is that David Dahl is actually not very good at baseball, when you strip away some of his numbers' artificiality. 

You chose to cite DJ Lemahieu, who has exactly nothing to do with Dahls relative mediocrity at hitting, and mediocrity at fielding. In HIS case, take away Coors Field, and he's a .722 OPS hitter; his DRS shows him to be a mediocre at best fielder. (Yes, there are some defensive numbers that suggest he might be adequate in the field, but that perceived adequacy is attached to a middling non-Coors .722 OPS.)

 

Now, to your point, I agree there can be some Rockies who can hit away from Coors. And there have been some ex-Rockies that go on to flourish elsewhere. But David Dahl has shown no such ability hereto fore in his career. His home /road splits are SO GLARING, that it can only be largely explained by the Coors Effect. FFS, its 200 freaking points difference in the OPS.

 

On balance, between his mediocre hitting numbers, his mixed-to-mediocre fielding numbers, and his utter inability to stay healthy, he offers nothing to the White Sox. It would be a bad idea to pursue him for RF.

Lastly, perhaps calling an oft-injured player like Dahl a "perma-cripple" offended some. For any offense caused, I apologize.

[Vulture]

LeMahieu also had a 200+ ops split with the Rockies. On top of that his road OPS was an inferior .670. Seems like an apt comparison to me. If, in addition to that, the study of ex rockies batters in general he referred to is true, I fail to see how the argument is fooking stoopid.

[Two-Gun Pete]

13 minutes ago, Vulture said:

LeMahieu also had a 200+ ops split with the Rockies. On top of that his road OPS was an inferior .670. Seems like an apt comparison to me. If, in addition to that, the study of ex rockies batters in general he referred to is true, I fail to see how the argument is fooking stoopid.

Did LeMahieu also have a ZIPS projection of 0.7 fWAR, like Dahl's? I mean, that's WORSE than Mazara's 1.0 fWAR projection for 2021. Both Dahl and Mazara are pretty much replacement level players, if their projections are to be believed. [EDIT] The 200 point OPS home/road split I cited for Dahl is a career number, whereas the one you cite is for a single season for LeMahieu; I don't see Dahl's career splits vs. 1 season for LeMahieu as being all that comparable, in all honesty.

 

Sorry, and while I did enjoy the articles Cali posted, they give no assurances that a mediocrity like Dahl will miracle his way into cromulence if he's moved away from Coors.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Two-Gun Pete

[ron883]

2 hours ago, maloney.adam said:

 

Yermin! Yermin!

[Vulture]

No, the LeMahieu numbers I cited were over his career.

How about this for a single season comparison:

Dahl '19 

Home: .349/.402/.598

Away: .254/.302/.449

LeMahieu '18

Home: .317/.360/.433

Away .229/.277/.422

.751 away ops vs .699

 

[Vulture]

22 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Sorry, and while I did enjoy the articles Cali posted, they give no assurances that a mediocrity like Dahl will miracle his way into cromulence if he's moved away from Coors.

Well, yeah. The attraction to Dahl is the low investment possible high reward. I don't know about Cali, but I like him as a depth move not as the primary RF acquisition.

[Two-Gun Pete]

14 minutes ago, Vulture said:

Well, yeah. The attraction to Dahl is the low investment possible high reward. I don't know about Cali, but I like him as a depth move not as the primary RF acquisition.

Look, if you don't believe me, then believe his ZIPs projection. Hell, I'm a giving guy, so I'll tack on an additional 50% on top of what ZIPs says he is.

If you give David Dahl an additional 50% step up bonus to his ZIPS projection, then he'd be worth 1.05 fWAR in 2021. Which means Zips thinks he kinda sucks at baseball.

A 0-1.0 fWAR type is the kind of player you should be able to scoop up from AAA in your own system. Leury Garcia's ZIPs is 0.9 fWAR, for example. 

I'd rather use the money on signing Colas, or another BP arm, or maybe a backup Catcher than add David Dahl as the 5th OFer in the org.

[Vulture]

Well, ZIPs projections are useless as far as I'm concerned. Sox can use a left handed bench bat, and I don't think it would be that easy to find one with that kind of possible upside for a couple million. If you think Leury or Engle have it, I don't know what to tell you. I like Engel but he isn't even close to Dahl in terms of overall talent. I don't know where you see a comparable left handed hitting, or otherwise, outfielder to scoop up from our system either. Nor would I suggest not signing Colas, but there is no way he helps us in the next two years regardless. I would think they have a separate budget for signing prospects

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, Vulture said:

Well, yeah. The attraction to Dahl is the low investment possible high reward. I don't know about Cali, but I like him as a depth move not as the primary RF acquisition.

I'm always for low risk high reward types who have already, at a young age, had several promising seasons although cut short by injuries a lot. It's the reason I was fine with Mazara . I never considered him as the primary move because from the beginning of the 5 or 6 posts I made on the subject I knew he wouldn't be ready to actually passed a physical until he was recovered from his latest injury which won't be until February.' I love the guys stroke. He's not even close to a dead pull hitter . He just rolls with the pitch much like we saw McCann and Timmy learn to do and how we've seen Abreu do it from the start of his career. Plus he has no problem elevating the ball which was always the concern with Mazara.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

5 hours ago, Orlando said:

So I just realized that NBC Sports is covering the “Virtual Winter Meetings” next week. I had no idea they were doing it at all. Maybe we get some movement and everyone can stop arguing about food accounts and players that will never play on the South Side.

 

 

Usually I'm extremely distracted at work during Winter Meetings week constantly refreshing Twitter. I guess I picked a good idea to be stuck at home with Covid. Silver linings, and whatnot.

[credezcrew24]

8 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Look smart guy. My arguments are well thought out. LeMahieu was one example I used. The articles I posted used other players in support of my arguments and the Coors effect that you probably didn't bother to read.

As far as Mazara goes. Yes I liked the signing as a possible low risk high reward approach. The Sox apparently saw it my way and it didn't work out and it didn't cost much money. Big deal.

As for Puig, no I didn't want to sign him and you did and apparently still do. Every single major league team agreed with me and not you.

I also didn't want EE and the Sox disagreed with me and it cost them a twice as much as signing Mazara. I would make those choices about Mazara , EE and Puig every time in the same situation.

I did present the type of contract I would sign Dahl to but only as a last resort and admitted in every post that his current injury and probable signing in February ruled him out as the main RF target. Stop twisting everything I say to feed your closed minded narrative.

Mazara wasn't a signing.

The Sox gave up their 2018 second round pick Steele Walker who produced well in his 2019 season.

Mazara, his worthless production, a salary that was supposed to be over 5 million, and the 2* years of control certainly wasn't worthy of the value a productive 2nd round pick from a year and a half ago.

Mazara has never had a WAR over 1

[Sarava]

8 hours ago, maloney.adam said:

 

Man, they've come so far in the rebuild and appear to be so close. It would be such a shame if they cheaped out this late in the game. And I agree that I'd be uneasy handing the keys to DH to Vaughn. He needs to show some success in the minor leagues first IMO.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Sarava

[poppysox]

9 hours ago, maloney.adam said:

I would like Springer but I think they will sign Joc for RF. 

The Joc/Engle duo makes a lot of sense...especially if Bauer is on the radar.

[Two-Gun Pete]

7 hours ago, Vulture said:

Well, ZIPs projections are useless as far as I'm concerned. Sox can use a left handed bench bat, and I don't think it would be that easy to find one with that kind of possible upside for a couple million. If you think Leury or Engle have it, I don't know what to tell you. I like Engel but he isn't even close to Dahl in terms of overall talent. 

We all get the SOX's need for LH bats. (EDIT) Or, at a minimum, another bat or two that can adequately produce v RHP.

I just have an extreme prejudice against wasting time acquiring players who kinda suck at baseball. The Rox gave up on Dahl. The folks who prepare the ZIPs projection think he kinda sucks, and whether you like the projections or not, they seem to have nailed Mazara's and others sucktitude. And yes, there is a clear and present Coors effect with Dahls  numbers. Lastly, he's like ALWAYS injured.

 

In sum, I'm against acquiring AAAA types, because they lead to AAAA type outcomes with your team. And there is much more evidence that Dahl, like Mazara before him, kinda sucks at baseball. I know its controversial for me to write, but my belief is that if you want to have a good team, acquire good players, not shitty ones.

 

We may agree to disagree. But, I think we as a Fandom need to divorce ourselves from this idea that oft-injured mediocrities are the answer. We're in the window NOW, so shitty players like Mazara and Dahl don't need to be here.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Two-Gun Pete

[Two-Gun Pete]

2 hours ago, credezcrew24 said:

Mazara wasn't a signing.

The Sox gave up their 2018 second round pick Steele Walker who produced well in his 2019 season.

Mazara, his worthless production, a salary that was supposed to be over 5 million, and the 2* years of control certainly wasn't worthy of the value a productive 2nd round pick from a year and a half ago.

Mazara has never had a WAR over 1

Exactly this.

Anyone could have taken a quick look at Mazaras numbers, and forecast that he kinda sucks at baseball. Yet, Kenny and Rick just HAD TO give away an asset for a guy who sucks, and who had fewer years of control than Walker. 

[oldsox]

2 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Exactly this.

Anyone could have taken a quick look at Mazaras numbers, and forecast that he kinda sucks at baseball. Yet, Kenny and Rick just HAD TO give away an asset for a guy who sucks, and who had fewer years of control than Walker. 

I never admitted this, but I thought the biggest reason for acquiring Mazara was that super long home run off Sox in 2019.