CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 4 hours ago, credezcrew24 said: Mazara wasn't a signing. The Sox gave up their 2018 second round pick Steele Walker who produced well in his 2019 season. Mazara, his worthless production, a salary that was supposed to be over 5 million, and the 2* years of control certainly wasn't worthy of the value a productive 2nd round pick from a year and a half ago. Mazara has never had a WAR over 1 Ok whats your point ?I know it was a trade. Yes I put signed instead of traded, my temp. insanity. There's really no need to rehash that trade > i did it over and over at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Two-Gun Pete said: Exactly this. Anyone could have taken a quick look at Mazaras numbers, and forecast that he kinda sucks at baseball. Yet, Kenny and Rick just HAD TO give away an asset for a guy who sucks, and who had fewer years of control than Walker. Because players are always who we think they are at the age of 25 . My God I actually used to think you were smart about baseball but to pursue this line of BS you are beyond hope. Tons of guys turn into more than the sum of their stats after age 25. Of course more stay exactly the same and some get worse. How do I know that ? because teams , yes actual major league teams take chances on guys like that and successful teams too like the Dodgers, Oakland , Rays and many more. Or teams just keep them rather than discarding them. Anyone can say someone sucks and be right most of the time. Most of this board said it when the Sox SIGNED McCann and he was older and worse than Mazara. Hell you could have said Tim Anderson sucks after his 1st 3 years until he broke out at age 26. Edited December 4, 2020 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Two-Gun Pete said: Exactly this. Anyone could have taken a quick look at Mazaras numbers, and forecast that he kinda sucks at baseball. Yet, Kenny and Rick just HAD TO give away an asset for a guy who sucks, and who had fewer years of control than Walker. So if we had signed a guy coming off of a age 28 .581 OPS/57 OPS+/.220/.267/.314 season we would be fools to think he could be an all star the next year? A guy who had never put up an OPS+ north of 94, but also had a 64 and 69 OPS+ previously, is definitely not a guy who we should have brought in on a major league contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Because players are always who we think they are at the age of 25 . My God I actually used to think you were smart about baseball but to pursue this line of BS you are beyond hope. Tons of guys turn into more than the sum of their stats after age 25. Of course more stay exactly the same and some get worse. How do I know that ? because teams , yes actual major league teams take chances on guys like that and successful teams too like the Dodgers, Oakland , Rays and many more. Or teams just keep them rather than discarding them. Anyone can say someone sucks and be right most of the time. Most of this board said it when the Sox SIGNED McCann and he was older and worse than Mazara. Jose Bautista was a career minor leaguer pushing 30 when he changed his swing and became a monster power hitter. This is baseball, and you can figure it out at any time. It's harder to get a shot in the bigs as a player gets older, but if they get up as an injury replacement perform and stick it happens occasionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Jose Bautista was a career minor leaguer pushing 30 when he changed his swing and became a monster power hitter. This is baseball, and you can figure it out at any time. It's harder to get a shot in the bigs as a player gets older, but if they get up as an injury replacement perform and stick it happens occasionally. How did you feel about Tim Anderson before he broke out at age 26 ? I remember that Jack. A lot of the board disagreed with your stance on Anderson because he had the tools and he was our guy but his 1st 3 seasons weren't exactly stellar. And in fairness to you plenty of thsi board were super down on Giolito and Moncada after just 1 year in the league. It's super easy to say someone sucks and that's all they will ever be even when they are young. David Ortiz had over 1500 ABs for the Twins before they released him and he went on to become a legend starting with the Red Sox at age 27. Edited December 4, 2020 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: How did you feel about Tim Anderson before he broke out at age 26 ? I remember that Jack. A lot of the board disagreed with your stance on Anderson because he had the tools and he was our guy but his 1st 3 seasons weren't exactly stellar. And in fairness to you plenty of thsi board were super down on Giolito and Moncada after just 1 year in the league. It's super easy to say someone sucks and that's all they will ever be even when they are young. David Ortiz had over 1500 ABs for the Twins before they released him and he went on to become a legend starting with the Red Sox at age 27. I couldn't stand Anderson before he became an elite average hitter. I thought his approach at the plate was awful. That being said, Anderson didn't play baseball until HS so his delay in development makes some sense. You can get away with being a free swinger if you hit everything like Anderson does now. I'm a bit concerned about Moncada going forward if he can't get the elite EV back after Covid because the skill of pulverizing baseballs is what allows him to overcome his ridiculous amount of whiffs. The biggest indicator of what type of player Moncada will be in 2021 is his EV. Look all season for trends of it going up. Edited December 4, 2020 by Jack Parkman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, Vulture said: Well, ZIPs projections are useless as far as I'm concerned. Sox can use a left handed bench bat, and I don't think it would be that easy to find one with that kind of possible upside for a couple million. If you think Leury or Engle have it, I don't know what to tell you. I like Engel but he isn't even close to Dahl in terms of overall talent. I don't know where you see a comparable left handed hitting, or otherwise, outfielder to scoop up from our system either. Nor would I suggest not signing Colas, but there is no way he helps us in the next two years regardless. I would think they have a separate budget for signing prospects Exactly . Projections just take what they have seen so far and extrapolate it into future production, just like anyone who says someone sucks and they will continue to suck. It's a total cop out to support not using your brain to see beyond the numbers. I'll be wrong more than I'll be right using an oft injured player with promise and saying he could become a very good player and Pete will be right more often when he says someone sucks and will continue to suck but that's not exactly the point. The point is that using limited funds on low risk high reward young players is a good way to maximize value for franchises who don't spend the big bucks.. If the Dodgers can do it with guys like Max Muncy and Chris Taylor so can we. Edited December 4, 2020 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 17 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I couldn't stand Anderson before he became an elite average hitter. I thought his approach at the plate was awful. That being said, Anderson didn't play baseball until HS so his delay in development makes some sense. You can get away with being a free swinger if you hit everything like Anderson does now. I'm a bit concerned about Moncada going forward if he can't get the elite EV back after Covid because the skill of pulverizing baseballs is what allows him to overcome his ridiculous amount of whiffs. The biggest indicator of what type of player Moncada will be in 2021 is his EV. Look all season for trends of it going up. I think anyone's delay in development makes sense even if you play baseball your whole life. You are among the elite talents in the sport. It takes time to figure things out. Injuries delay that process. It's a more cerebral game than most sports and requires patience . I'm not surprised that baseball is less popular in the computer age when instant excitement is at everyone's fingertips. There were plenty of people worried about Robert when he was in the low minors showing no power . I'm glad we can all discuss baseball here and we are never going to agree with each other on things we all wish would happen . Most of the time I try to keep it in the back of my mind not to be belligerent and not to say things that I wouldn't like said to me. Some times I fail . Some posters don't have a self filter and they hide behind anonymity to let arrogance and ignorance rule their words. If I encounter that type of attitude I respond with that attitude . But prolonged discussions trading snarkiness isn't my style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 36 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I couldn't stand Anderson before he became an elite average hitter. I thought his approach at the plate was awful. That being said, Anderson didn't play baseball until HS so his delay in development makes some sense. You can get away with being a free swinger if you hit everything like Anderson does now. I'm a bit concerned about Moncada going forward if he can't get the elite EV back after Covid because the skill of pulverizing baseballs is what allows him to overcome his ridiculous amount of whiffs. The biggest indicator of what type of player Moncada will be in 2021 is his EV. Look all season for trends of it going up. I was a huge Anderson fan. He just oozed raw superstar potential since the day we drafted him. I was excited the day we extended him at a bargain rate, and continue to love what the kid does on and off of the field. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I was a huge Anderson fan. He just oozed raw superstar potential since the day we drafted him. I was excited the day we extended him at a bargain rate, and continue to love what the kid does on and off of the field. He absolutely did but I thought he'd never get there because of his swing and miss issues combined with lack of walks. Anderson is a lesson for all of us. Edited December 4, 2020 by Jack Parkman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: He absolutely did but I thought he'd never get there because of his swing and miss issues combined with lack of walks. Anderson is a lesson for all of us. Yet you're still as overly negative and concerned as always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Yet you're still as overly negative and concerned as always. Overall, I'm absolutely ecstatic about where the Sox are as an organization. There are two things I can complain about: 1. Ownership 2. The Sox tendency to trade guys away when Kenny was running things I'm cautiously optimistic that Moncada will be ok, but it would be a very White Sox thing for his career to be altered by Covid and would suck. My optimism is because he's my favorite position player on the Sox. If he comes back and is himself(likely, IMO) I'm investing in some gear. I've really liked Moncada and Giolito since before they were even in the Sox organization so there's some attachment there due to being incredibly excited that the Sox acquired them. Sustained success comes from great scouting and player development, keeping most of your team's best young players and using money to fill holes the majority of the time. Edited December 4, 2020 by Jack Parkman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 This thread should be called offseason tangents, as there’s very little in way of target discussion. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagahRagah Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Yet you're still as overly negative and concerned as always. This is SUCH a blanket statement. There are a considerable amount of things to feel pessimistic about right now, honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, fathom said: This thread should be called offseason tangents, as there’s very little in way of target discussion. Exactly why I said we need a move badly lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, fathom said: This thread should be called offseason tangents, as there’s very little in way of target discussion. LOL I just call it people talking to people about baseball stemming from how we view David Dahl as an acquisition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 1 minute ago, manbearpuig said: Exactly why I said we need a move badly lol Yea then basically the same thing happens, people talking to people and disagreeing about our acquisition instead of speculating on possible acquisitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Yea then basically the same thing happens, people talking to people and disagreeing about our acquisition instead of speculating on possible acquisitions. In some threads, I noticed arguments getting a little too close to persobal attacks, straying away from the baseball discussion. That's more what I'm referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Just now, manbearpuig said: In some threads, I noticed arguments getting a little too close to persobal attacks, straying away from the baseball discussion. That's more what I'm referring to. That happens a lot too but not a lot we can do about it. Arguments get heated and some people get attitudes about it. It will happen after the Sox makes moves too unless it's Bauer . Even if it is Bauer there will be an awful lot of people calling out those who said we will never get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: That happens a lot too but not a lot we can do about it. Arguments get heated and some people get attitudes about it. It will happen after the Sox makes moves too unless it's Bauer . Even if it is Bauer there will be an awful lot of people calling out those who said we will never get him. If they got Bauer I'd first be shocked, then pleasantly surprised, and then when it sinks in, ecstatic. If they land Bauer it would completely change my opinion on Uncle Jerry for this window. Edited December 4, 2020 by Jack Parkman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 closing this, as we are well into the offseason, and have specific target threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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