McCann

[reiks12]

I am trying to think of a scenario where bringing him back makes sense. If Hahn offers him a good contract and says he would be the starting catcher with Grandal moving to more of a DH/1B role then I think we keep him. Unfortunately that would require Grandal to go along with it and I doubt he does. 

I then questioned where Vaughn would play in that scenario. He wouldn't. Abreu has the next two years and will most likely be extended after that. With Grandal moving into that 1B/DH/backup catcher role then Vaughn has no place on this team.

I love McCann, but I feel Vaughn's bat is going to be incredible and I would hate to trade him or see him get the Collins' treatment, not that the two should ever be compared. 

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

I am trying to think of a scenario where bringing him back makes sense.

There is none. We made our decision on McCann the day we signed Grandal. We placed a bet that McCann could not repeat his 2019 numbers/that he would be exposed if he continued to be played as a starter. James McCann will go somewhere else as their #1 catcher next year, and we just have to accept that, and maybe he'll be more exposed, maybe he won't, but he deserves the shot somewhere. There is absolutely no way that spending premium money on a catcher makes sense when we already spent premium money on a catcher - go spend the extra money, whatever it is, on your pitching staff or RF. If Grandal winds up costing us a pennant somehow, we can flash back to that decision at that time. 

[pcq]

No more lectures about McCann. 

[tray]

I then questioned where Vaughn would play

Vaughn  has not proven that he can play defense at any position at a major league level.  He is a tank that lacks the speed required to be an outfielder and the flexibility/reach required at 1B/3B.  He is a RH version of Jake Burgur...a possible DH, but not a position player.  If Vaughn can hit well enough to be a full time DH, he will be added to the roster to fill EE's spot.

Then the issue will be whether Collins/Grandal  can perform better offensively and defensively than the tandem of Grandal/Collins, Stated another way, are the  WSox willing to replace productive and proven veteran players with prospects on a team that is in their competitive window.

 

 

Edited October 3, 2020 by tray

[fathom]

4 minutes ago, tray said:

I then questioned where Vaughn would play

Vaughn  has not proven that he can play defense at any position at a major league level.  He is a tank that lacks the speed required to be an outfielder and the flexibility/reach required at 1B/3B.  He is a RH version of Jake Burgur...a possible DH, but not a position player.  If Vaughn can hit well enough to be a full time DH, he will be added to the roster to fill EE's spot.

Then the issue will be whether Collins/Grandal  can perform better offensively and defensively than the tandem of Grandal/Collins, Stated another way, are the  WSox willing to replace productive and proven veteran players with prospects on a team that is in their competitive window.

 

 

Basing all this on the same Summer Camp that allowed Delmonico to make the big league team, I see

[tray]

OK, as a counterpoint,  link us a video of Vaughn playing D or running the bases.

I am not suggesting he will never play 1b/3B or outfield at a major league level  nor have I read  that coaches believe he is ready to play one of those positions in the majors. I just want to see the evidence that cause some to project him at any position on the field.

[CeaseAndExist]

1 minute ago, tray said:

OK, as a counterpoint,  link us a video of Vaughn playing D or running the bases.

I am not suggesting he will never play 1b/3B or outfield at a major league level  nor have I read  that coaches believe he is ready to play one of those positions in the majors. I just want to see the evidence that cause some to project him at any position on the field.

 

Vaughn is perfectly capable of playing 1B. He may not be great there but he's servicable, and he's more athletic than you think.

If Pete Alonso can be a MLB 1B then Vaughn can as well.

[tray]

I don't think Vaughn is "serviceable" replacement for Jose Abreu or Grandal at 1B. He is short, lacks reach and has not demonstrated that he can pick the ball out of the dirt on short hops.  At this point. he looks like DH, and no one would have a problem with that if he proves that he can rake.   EE is probably gone so that roster spot will be open.

Edited October 3, 2020 by tray

[southsider2k5]

None.

Let.It.Go.

[ron883]

27 minutes ago, tray said:

I don't think Vaughn is "serviceable" replacement for Jose Abreu or Grandal at 1B. He is short, lacks reach and has not demonstrated that he can pick the ball out of the dirt on short hops.  At this point. he looks like DH, and no one would have a problem with that if he proves that he can rake.   EE is probably gone so that roster spot will be open.

How much of Vaughn have you seen so far?

[Ducksnort]

There's like 5 threads out there about James McCann. As much as I would love to keep him, the way he was talking about his memories in Chicago during his postgame interview, it sounded like he was saying his good-byes.

Edited October 3, 2020 by ScooterMcGee

[elrockinMT]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

None.

Let.It.Go.

We can’t 

 

[reiks12]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

None.

Let.It.Go.

Thats the point of my thread

[Dominikk85]

Yeah, he might be willing to stay if you offer him to play 50% of the time but grandal is an elite catcher on both sides of the ball and you want him to play 120+ games and it makes no sense for McCann to stay for 40 games and a few at DH. 

Don't  forget DH could be pretty crowded next year, Vaughn will be up and eloy might also occasionally get a day or two at DH when he is a little banged up.

McCann isn't young either and that is the last chance for him to get a starting job somewhere.

Obviously the sox will lose some production of catcher next year but if grandal plays 125 games it is ok to have an offensive hole at catcher for 35 games or a defensive one if you use Collins.

[oldsox]

Give him a QO.  If he takes it, he is overpaid, but the White Sox always overpay several players.  This year it was Edgar.  I would rather overpay a really solid player than someone like EE.  Since he is looking for a long year contract, he will probably reject Sox offer anyway, and then Sox get a draft pick.

[Rowand44]

14 hours ago, tray said:

I then questioned where Vaughn would play

Vaughn  has not proven that he can play defense at any position at a major league level.  He is a tank that lacks the speed required to be an outfielder and the flexibility/reach required at 1B/3B.  He is a RH version of Jake Burgur...a possible DH, but not a position player.  If Vaughn can hit well enough to be a full time DH, he will be added to the roster to fill EE's spot.

Then the issue will be whether Collins/Grandal  can perform better offensively and defensively than the tandem of Grandal/Collins, Stated another way, are the  WSox willing to replace productive and proven veteran players with prospects on a team that is in their competitive window.

 

 

Killed it with this one.

[Dick Allen]

13 hours ago, tray said:

I don't think Vaughn is "serviceable" replacement for Jose Abreu or Grandal at 1B. He is short, lacks reach and has not demonstrated that he can pick the ball out of the dirt on short hops.  At this point. he looks like DH, and no one would have a problem with that if he proves that he can rake.   EE is probably gone so that roster spot will be open.

This is definitely a candidate for hot take of the week.

[Chicago White Sox]

25 minutes ago, oldsox said:

Give him a QO.  If he takes it, he is overpaid, but the White Sox always overpay several players.  This year it was Edgar.  I would rather overpay a really solid player than someone like EE.  Since he is looking for a long year contract, he will probably reject Sox offer anyway, and then Sox get a draft pick.

There is zero chance we offer McCann a QO as he would 100% accept it and it would prevent us from filling more important holes.  

[southsider2k5]

3 hours ago, oldsox said:

Give him a QO.  If he takes it, he is overpaid, but the White Sox always overpay several players.  This year it was Edgar.  I would rather overpay a really solid player than someone like EE.  Since he is looking for a long year contract, he will probably reject Sox offer anyway, and then Sox get a draft pick.

Is McCann worth going into 2021 with the same holes we had in 20? Because that is what this would achieve. 

["The Kids Can Play"]

I might be in the minority on this and maybe get ripped for saying this, but I would keep McCann and trade Grandal. There are a significant number of teams that adding Grandal to their team would be an upgrade. I think McCann is as good of a catcher defensively as Grandal. Plus I don't think Grandal calls the pitch selection as well either for the pitchers. McCann has proven now for two years in a row that he is a sold contact hitter with some good power. The fact is, Grandall had 8 HR's in 46 games and 161 AB's, as opposed to McCann having 7 HR's in only 31 games and 97 AB's. Do the math...no comparison! More importantly, McCann is a much better contact hitter and hits for a far better batting average. McCann hit .289 vs Grandall at .230. Finally, since we need another starter or maybe a productive right fielder, Grandall would bring in that RF we need, or that starting pitcher or perhaps some excellent prospects to help continue this rebuild and keep it going for future years. 

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, ejm3 said:

I might be in the minority on this and maybe get ripped for saying this, but I would keep McCann and trade Grandal. There are a significant number of teams that adding Grandal to their team would be an upgrade. I think McCann is as good of a catcher defensively as Grandal. Plus I don't think Grandal calls the pitch selection as well either for the pitchers. McCann has proven now for two years in a row that he is a sold contact hitter with some good power. The fact is, Grandall had 8 HR's in 46 games and 161 AB's, as opposed to McCann having 7 HR's in only 31 games and 97 AB's. Do the math...no comparison! More importantly, McCann is a much better contact hitter and hits for a far better batting average. McCann hit .289 vs Grandall at .230. Finally, since we need another starter or maybe a productive right fielder, Grandall would bring in that RF we need, or that starting pitcher or perhaps some excellent prospects to help continue this rebuild and keep it going for future years. 

If you're giving an argument for why McCann is a better player than Grandal, why would another team trade for Grandal rather than signing McCann for more money?

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, ejm3 said:

I might be in the minority on this and maybe get ripped for saying this, but I would keep McCann and trade Grandal. There are a significant number of teams that adding Grandal to their team would be an upgrade. I think McCann is as good of a catcher defensively as Grandal. Plus I don't think Grandal calls the pitch selection as well either for the pitchers. McCann has proven now for two years in a row that he is a sold contact hitter with some good power. The fact is, Grandall had 8 HR's in 46 games and 161 AB's, as opposed to McCann having 7 HR's in only 31 games and 97 AB's. Do the math...no comparison! More importantly, McCann is a much better contact hitter and hits for a far better batting average. McCann hit .289 vs Grandall at .230. Finally, since we need another starter or maybe a productive right fielder, Grandall would bring in that RF we need, or that starting pitcher or perhaps some excellent prospects to help continue this rebuild and keep it going for future years. 

If a team wasn't willing to give him 18 million a year last year, why would they now? 

[oldsox]

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Is McCann worth going into 2021 with the same holes we had in 20? Because that is what this would achieve. 

Disagree.  One big hole this year was DH.  Yermin is better and much cheaper than Edgar.  Hole filled.  Right field was a hole, and probably will be again.  So, play Engel.  Hole partially filled.  Starting pitcher was a hole, but almost everyone has the same hole.  Kopech should help fill it, as will Crochet if his elbow is okay.  If you or anyone else thinks that not offering McCann a doable contract will automatically fill one of Southsider's holes, look no further than two of last year's acquisitions, EE and Mazara, who were signed to fill holes.

Plus, Vaughn will help fill the DH Hole.

Edited October 3, 2020 by oldsox
forgot it

[southsider2k5]

15 minutes ago, oldsox said:

Disagree.  One big hole this year was DH.  Yermin is better and much cheaper than Edgar.  Hole filled.  Right field was a hole, and probably will be again.  So, play Engel.  Hole partially filled.  Starting pitcher was a hole, but almost everyone has the same hole.  Kopech should help fill it, as will Crochet if his elbow is okay.  If you or anyone else thinks that not offering McCann a doable contract will automatically fill one of Southsider's holes, look no further than two of last year's acquisitions, EE and Mazara, who were signed to fill holes.

Plus, Vaughn will help fill the DH Hole.

The Sox would lose about $13 million a year in payroll flexibility and block Vaughn from real playing time.  Vaughn is the next piece of the DH puzzle.  We don't need to spend $18 million to do that.  We have a MUCH better hitter ready to go in Andrew Vaughn.  Past that, we would have $18 million less dollars to find a top end SP, closer, and RF, only to block our next best hitter from playing time.

[poppysox]

4 hours ago, ejm3 said:

I might be in the minority on this and maybe get ripped for saying this, but I would keep McCann and trade Grandal. There are a significant number of teams that adding Grandal to their team would be an upgrade. I think McCann is as good of a catcher defensively as Grandal. Plus I don't think Grandal calls the pitch selection as well either for the pitchers. McCann has proven now for two years in a row that he is a sold contact hitter with some good power. The fact is, Grandall had 8 HR's in 46 games and 161 AB's, as opposed tao McCann having 7 HR's in only 31 games and 97 AB's. Do the math...no comparison! More importantly, McCann is a much better contact hitter and hits for a far better batting average. McCann hit .289 vs Grandall at .230. Finally, since we need another starter or maybe a productive right fielder, Grandall would bring in that RF we need, or that starting pitcher or perhaps some excellent prospects to help continue this rebuild and keep it going for future years. 

You make some solid points.  I prefer keeping both Grandall and McCann but as always...money talks.