Sox should replace Renteria with Ozzie Guillen

[ChiSox1917]

All on board the ozzie train

[ron883]

@greg775 and I may be enemies who completely hate each other's guts, but this is one thing we can agree on. Bring back Oz.

[tray]

I think RR  deserves to be fired. Will they do it? I don't know.

 

I would be fine with Ozzie but I doubt the Sox will hire him. It is hard for people to let go of old grudges.

Not sure who would take over but maybe Big Frank would agree to do it.

 

 

 

[ron883]

41 minutes ago, tray said:

I think RR  deserves to be fired. Will they do it? I don't know.

 

I would be fine with Ozzie but I doubt the Sox will hire him. It is hard for people to let go of old grudges.

Not sure who would take over but maybe Big Frank would agree to do it.

 

 

 

Manager - Ozzie

Hitting coach - Big Frank

Pitching coach - Mark Buehrle

Pitching Coach Emeritus - Steve Stone (stays as color commentator though)

Edited October 4, 2020 by Yearnin' for Yermin

[lostfan]

I feel like Ozzie would have to be dragged kicking and screaming into modern perspectives on baseball, a lot's changed since he managed the Sox and he didn't seem to be very receptive to those kinds of suggestions back then either.

[Chicago White Sox]

7 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Hell no. Ozzie quit on this franchise.  He is the absolute last person who should be around these kids.

/ Close thread 

[southsider2k5]

6 hours ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Nobody cares that he quit in 2011

People are pissed about shit that happened in 1980. 

[southsider2k5]

44 minutes ago, lostfan said:

I feel like Ozzie would have to be dragged kicking and screaming into modern perspectives on baseball, a lot's changed since he managed the Sox and he didn't seem to be very receptive to those kinds of suggestions back then either.

Ozzie is a caveman in an era of nerds.  

[ChiSoxJon]

6 hours ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Nobody cares that he quit in 2011

Yeah it was awful and a pathetic way to leave, but that 2011 team wasn't exactly going anywhere

[ChiSoxFanMike]

4 hours ago, Orlando said:

If you go through Steve’s responses on Twitter, it seems like he is replying to everyone that is bringing up Cora and Hinch. Not squashing the idea at all.

I don’t like that either of them would bring their stained reputation to the Sox, but they are both far superior managers than Ricky and it’s not really all that close either.

[Eminor3rd]

7 hours ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Nobody cares that he quit in 2011

I do

[greg775]

3 hours ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

@greg775 and I may be enemies who completely hate each other's guts, but this is one thing we can agree on. Bring back Oz.

I thought I ignored you but your posts are appearing. Maybe I didn't. Oz forever!

[BamaDoc]

1) Ownership is extremely loyal to employees.  After a major turnaround season RR will not be fired.  No manager looks good when pitching falls apart.

2) Anyone wanting to modernize and embrace modern analytics should remember Ozzie did more things by his gut than anyone back then.  I loved Ozzie but the act got old and the ending was terrible.  Not a mutual parting of ways, terrible, toxic.  Those that complain about lineups now would freak at the "Sunday lineups"  Ozzie used.

3) The things we don't see such as communication, managing egos, injuries, RR seems to do well.  I notice ex players etc don't bash him and RR seems very likeable.  He doesn't seem to have lost the locker room.  If the front office/analytics people are feeding RR info or lineups he seemingly handles that, how would Ozzie react to being told who to play.

4) All of the above said, the one who interests me would be Cora.  Former Sox(management likes), won with good talent, without being racial his ethnicity fits our core talent(sure sounds racial lol), seems to be modern from analytic usage.  Still think RR gets 2021 unless things really go bad.  

[pcq]

I once assumed Joey was going to succeed Ozzie but he was too close to the poisoned well. He is worth checking out. Went to Vanderbilt. 

[Dick Allen]

Scottie Pippen quit on the Bulls infamously, then came back and won 3 championships. I am not so concerned with Ozzie quitting on the Sox, which he did, but the season was basically over, and there was some infighting.  
 

That said, no way for a return. We know how it got. It will all be about Ozzie, and when it’s not, it will be about Oney or Ozney. I will leave Jr. out of it, as he always seemed to be the least entitled offspring.

And if you are all about analytics, Ozzie hates them more than Hawk. His time has come and gone. The Marlins of all teams, paid him for 3 or 4 years not to manage. That tells you a lot.

JR is on record Ozzie will not manage the White Sox as long as he owns the team.

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/chicago-white-sox/reinsdorf-ozzie-guillen-cant-come-back-white-sox-manager

 

 

Edited October 4, 2020 by Dick Allen

[GreenSox]

No they should not bring back Guillen.

[bmags]

definitely needed one more fire renteria thread.

[knightni]

On 10/3/2020 at 9:16 PM, ChiSox1917 said:

All on board the ozzie train

Destination: Dumpster Fire

[southsider2k5]

22 minutes ago, bmags said:

definitely needed one more fire renteria thread.

But I am sure this one is relevant and unique.

[poppysox]

On 10/4/2020 at 12:37 AM, ChiSoxJon said:

Yeah it was awful and a pathetic way to leave, but that 2011 team wasn't exactly going anywhere

When a regular Joe leaves his employer...he is well-advised to leave gracefully with thanks for the opportunity and best wishes.  He might need a reference or his old job back one day.  Also, don't bring your kids to work...doesn't work out well.

[AJ'S Cousin]

As long as KW is around he will overrule RH on hiring Ozzie, He will not manage. Should RR be fired?? Of course, but who's available? Only Ozzie?? I doubt it. If there isn't a suitable replacement that is affordable, JR will stick with RR for one more year. He's not going to pay 2 managers. RR F***ed game 3 by pulling Dunning in the 1st inning. Maybe he would of got out of it, maybe not. It was worth 1 more batter to see if he could, probably. Cease and Dunning could develop in Number 5's, but need at least a half season in the minors i believe. Rodon may be done or become a bullpen guy, released or traded. Would he take a stint in the minors to start the season to work things out?? I don't know. Kopech also may need a month or 2 in the minors if he doesn't perform well in Spring Training as Crochet may need time in minors to get stretched out. We need a REAL # 3 behind Gio and Dallas 1st. RR is Doug Collins and will get switched out fired when we find our Phil Jackson. 

[Stinky Stanky]

Ozzie could do eeny, meeny with his bullpen and win games in 2005.  That means he's smart!  A half season later the BP was floundering.  Does that mean he got dumb, or that managers are as good as their bullpens?  Either way, the Cubs once yanked Lou Boudreau out of the radio booth at midseason and replaced Charlie Grimm(?) with him.  Might it happen here?

God no!

[greg775]

On 10/3/2020 at 3:15 PM, VAfan said:

I'm sure Ozzie's name has come up in multiple "fire Ricky" posts, but I don't see a post dedicated to a debate about hiring Ozzie to replace him, so I'm starting one. 

My case for firing Renteria is as follows.

1. Renteria has to go because down the stretch in the series in Cleveland and in the playoff series against Oakland, he had no concept of how to manage in a tight game. As long as his guys were hitting homers and taking leads and he had good starting pitching and a deep bullpen, he could manage. But if things went off track and he needed to manufacture a run or two, or sort out his bullpen usage in a tight game, he failed miserably.  If he can't win these kinds of games, he can't ever get the Sox to the World Series, because playoff series will inevitably be tight. 

My case for Ozzie is as follows.

1. Ozzie did exceedingly well managing the White Sox pitching during 2005. Granted, it was a staff with 4 stud starting pitchers who each threw more than 200 innings that year. In the ALCS, those 4 - Contreras, Buehrle, Garcia, and Garland threw 4 complete games in a row, which will never be done again, playoffs or regular season. But that doesn't mean Ozzie couldn't manage a bullpen. The Sox used 3 different primary closers in 2005, so Ozzie was able to adapt to what he had.

2. The 2005 Sox were tremendous in 1-run games. 

They also swept the Astros in the World Series, while only outscoring them by 6 total runs. They won three 1-0 games of note in that 2005 season - first game of year, first game after the All-Star break and last game of the World Series. 

This requires good managing. 

3. The 2005 Sox knew how to bash home runs. But they also knew how to manufacture runs. Just think of a couple of runs that won postseason games.

In the second game against the Angels in the ALCS, in the bottom of the 9th, after AJ Pierzynski reached first on a controversial dropped third strike, Ozzie pinch ran Pablo Ozuna for AJ, who stole second, and scored the walk-off win on a Joe Crede double to left field. 

In the WS clinching win against the Astros, Willie Harris hit a single, stole second, and scored on Jermaine Dye's single up the middle. It was the only run of the game. 

This also shows how Ozzie was able to use the "smurfs" - Harris, Ozuna, and Geoff Blum - in ways that helped the Sox to 3 postseason wins. In addition to Ozuna and Harris above, Geoff Blum hit the game winning HR in extra innings in game 3 of the World Series. 

Again, Ozzie knew what he was doing.  

4. The 2005 White Sox were an excellent defensive team, so Ozzie knows the value of defense in winning games. That offseason, the Sox traded offense for defense, and it paid off. This White Sox team has been excellent defensively with Anderson making great strides at SS, and with Luis Robert in CF. 

5. Ozzie is the only Sox manager alive today who has won a playoff series with the Sox. He was 11-1 in 2005, which is still the best postseason record in baseball. under that 3-round format. 

6. Yes, Ozzie quit on the team at the end of his tenure and should have been fired. He was angling to manage Miami, which turned into a disaster. After 10 years, I don't hold this against Ozzie, and the Sox shouldn't either. Ozzie is back in the Sox fold as an announcer and would not mess up like this again. 

7. If Renteria is replaced, the Sox need an Hispanic manager given how central the Cuban players are to the success of the team. 

8. Ozzie is a loudmouth manager, who says a lot of crazy things. But there is a method to his madness. He always takes the pressure onto himself, and off of his players. He has their backs. 

I'm sure some will question whether Ozzie is fully up to speed on the new analytics which didn't exist when Ozzie was managing. But I think he would be based on the fact that he knew how to manage pitching, had a team that could bash HRs and play for a run, and excelled in 1-run games. 

Lastly, I will confess I don't live in Chicago, so I don't know much about what Ozzie has been doing lately outside of providing TV commentary. But whatever that may be, I think Ozzie would be laser focused should he get another shot at managing the Sox. It's not likely a marriage that will last 10 years. But there's no reason it can't last for the next 5, which is the Sox window to compete for World Series titles. 

My vote: Fire Ricky. Hire Ozzie. 

 

I worship Ozzie but this shouldn't be discussed. Waste of time. He has opened his mouth way too many times and he dug his own grave so to speak in baseball. He loves being interviewed and having the power of being a manager (at least pre COVID when fans were in the park). His stances on issues might cause immediate protests. Castro stuff; didn't he offend some different groups of peeps?       Sox can't take that chance of picketing, riots, etc., because of Ozzie when a TON of other capable managers are available out there. Just pick the right one. Sox need to resist the tempation of picking former Sox with no experience. I could see them picking Thome or AJP and that would be dumb. In conclusion, I'd love for Ozzie to be manager but it won't happen so why discuss it?

Edited October 10, 2020 by greg775

[greg775]

On 10/3/2020 at 11:35 PM, southsider2k5 said:

People are pissed about shit that happened in 1980. 

The Dybber's baserunning cost the Sox a spot in the WS IMO. If Sox win that game, Hoyt comes back Sunday and wraps up the AL title. Yes I'm mad about that. So should be Britt Burns.

[Middle Buffalo]

6 hours ago, greg775 said:

The Dybber's baserunning cost the Sox a spot in the WS IMO. If Sox win that game, Hoyt comes back Sunday and wraps up the AL title. Yes I'm mad about that. So should be Britt Burns.

Uh oh. I think I just agreed with Greg.

 

For the record, it was 1983.