Tony La Russa named Manager

[Dick Allen]

37 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

La Russa's first WS team won because of pitching...one guy with more than 25 homers.  His second WS winner had one guy with over 25 homers.  Clearly his 3rd WS team in 2011 was post-steroid scandal.  Hinch won one WS and he was suspended for cheating.  So if your position is that TLS coached some players that juiced and he knew about it (which I don't think he ever acknowledged) but he won 3 WS without his teams cheating and that is equivalent to Hinch managing a team that had a system wide cheating for which he was suspended for a year.  OK.  

In 1989 five players in the AL hit 30 homers. And he had Rickey Henderson.

[gusguyman]

4 hours ago, NCsoxfan said:

You have to question the stomach on Hahn if he’s content to continually get walked over. He’s kind of been emasculated. 

fellas, is it feminine to have a shitty boss?

[ChiSox1917]

8 minutes ago, Sleepy Harold said:

Whitlock is a noted clown in the industry.

“I dont agree with him, so therefore hes a clown”.

such a pathetic argument

[Balta1701]

7 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

If you want to pronounce THE Steroids manager...Barry Bonds averaged about a 10 WAR for a 9 year period where he was clearly on Roids and dominated the majors and led his team to a pennant and 90 wins a year  and his manager during that time...the winningest period in his career was Dusty Baker.  

I'm ok with adding Baker to the list. Let's remember the steps in the story though - Tetrahydrogestrinone out in San Francisco sees the 1998 home run chase, decides "ok I'm going to get off the soft stuff and get onto the hard stuff", starts the BALCO program in 1999. I'm what, 2 degrees of steroids away from LaRussa, with the 1998 home run chase under him?

Basically, blame whoever you want, they are all guilty there. But do not sit there and tell me how Tony LaRussa is redeemed and AJ Hinch is dirty. Tony LaRussa had people shooting things into their asses that violated federal law in his locker room. If AJ Hinch's scheme was so horrible that he's dirty, then LaRussa deserves equal, if not more scorn.

[Thad Bosley]

2 hours ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Maybe I just have outrage exhaustion.  People on this board hated Renteria (I wasn't a big fan).  Then there was talk of Hinch and there were a flood of posts about not hiring the cheater (he was intriguing but only won with a super team that we found out were cheating).  Then the White Sox hire a manager with 4 manager of the year awards, 6 pennants, 3 world series (out of three) and has averaged 87 wins over 33 years...winningest manager in history and successful at three different organizations and we are apoplectic over it??  OK he does look really old in the pictures...but we aren't asking him to dig ditches.  We are asking him to control a clubhouse, make key game time decisions and work with an organization of players and coaches.   Sure seems like he would be pretty good at that.  Yes there are a bunch of young guys he has to manage...but a grandfather figure that is alternately stern and kind is probably something most of these players can get along with.   Hahn's not giving up GM duties to him...the teams movement towards analytics isn't going out the window...everyone wants to put their personal hatred of some element of the White Sox (this is a weird board) and assume that TLR will magnify that perceived stupidity.  I don't know...I don't think managers make that much of a difference but if one were to use a case study to say that they do...they would probably use TLR as exhibit A.    

Racking my brain here, but can’t think of one guy on the roster who appears to be in need of a “grandfather figure”,  

That may be a first - a MLB manager described as a “grandfather figure”.  Maybe Jack McKeon was as well back in ‘03 with the Marlins, who knows.  Lol

[caulfield12]

6 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Earth. Welcome.

I suppose if there’s any argument, it’s that the Bochy/Giants’ style of dominant pitching, fundamentals/defense, role players/overachieving veterans and just enough offense to carry them is pretty much the opposite of the way our team is currently constituted.
 

If this happened a year ago with RR booted, we’d have both Bochy and $80-90 million left on Bumgarner’s contract for the Sox...instead of Keuchel.  Guess that’s one positive.

 

[greg775]

20 minutes ago, Sleepy Harold said:

Whitlock is a noted clown in the industry.

I wonder if you even listen to him. I don't like blanket statements. I like to consider everything them make up my mind. Whitlock has quite a fat wallet for a supposed dummy.

[Rowand44]

2 minutes ago, greg775 said:

. I like to consider everything them make up my mind. 

Now this quite possibly might be the funniest sentence in the history of this site.  

Edited October 30, 2020 by Rowand44

[southsider2k5]

16 minutes ago, Rowand44 said:

Now this quite possibly might be the funniest sentence in the history of this site.  

The whole thing is rich.

[Chicago White Sox]

6 hours ago, fathom said:

“Dumbfounded” according to Passan from what he heard from the players. This is a disaster so far.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/30220736/why-tony-la-russa-sincerely-curious-choice-white-sox-manager?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true

Wow, what an excellent, unbiased summary of the clusterfuck of this hire.   Well done Passan.

[South Side Hit Men]

43 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The three year stretch the A's had in the 80's to 1990 - in which 75% of the roster was chewing on flinstone vitamins for fun - was one of the most dominant rosters the game has ever seen. They won something like 35 more games than any other AL team in the 3 year stretch. The won 25+ more games than any team in baseball. They were the only team to win their division all three of those years. At that point, steroids were so openly used players kept them IN THEIR LOCKER and did them in the clubhouse. People cite andro, but that was honestly McGwire just claiming the least damning of the shit he kept with him.

While other teams went on to cheat, and Barry did cheat (Barry is also the greatest of all-time without ever cheating, and just proved how absurd steroids are), the A's started it all. They also exploited it more than anyone. The closest other team I can compare them too is the Red Sox team who had like 6 guys chewing on Barney and Fred.

La Russa knew, and had no problem with it. Him and Selig benefited more than almost anyone else monetarily and reputation-wise while the players were ostracized and treated like criminals. It's laughable.

And with all that cheating, pills and syringes, and with the self proclaimed genius Tony LaRussa entering three World Series as a heavy favorite, he managed to lose 2 out of 3, one to a team reduced to one Ace pitcher and a crippled pinch hitter, the other to a nazi swastika wearing KKK owner and her favorite dog running the show.

Also lost to the rookie Orioles manager here in 1983. Tony did improve and learn over time, and did an excellent job over the last six years with the Cardinals, though credit must also be given to Walt Jocketty and the solid MLB and ML foundation he built for those teams.

1 hour ago, Buehrle5687 said:

lol slamming on a trashcan does seem like a pretty idiotic way to cheat. Have to assume the catcher and ump can hear it if the batter can. 

For the record, Hinch did not establish or even support the scheme. The players and one or more coaches started it. Hinch learned of it and tried to stop it when he destroyed the monitor used to relay the signals. The front office and owner (who denied knowledge) supported the scheme, overruled Hinch's objections, and bought a monitor to replace the one Hinch destroyed to keep the scheme going.

Edited October 30, 2020 by South Side Hit Men

[poppysox]

7 hours ago, HahnsKiddieTable said:

Absolutely only good thing that can come out of this hire is Jerry opening up payroll

Tony was not my first choice but he knows how to manage what is going on in the field.  Some players need a tough manager and others need a pat on the butt.  This move should be judged after we see the staff assembled.  Many times the coaches need to be the buddies while the manager is the decision maker that decides if your playing in today's game.  Many of us like Eloy's happy go lucky nature but feel he needs to get his head in the game.  Earl Weaver, Billy Martin, Dick Williams, Joe Girardi were all hard nose managers that knew how to win.  Tony with 6 pennants and 3 World Series titles probably will do just fine.

[michelangelosmonkey]

40 minutes ago, Thad Bosley said:

Racking my brain here, but can’t think of one guy on the roster who appears to be in need of a “grandfather figure”,  

That may be a first - a MLB manager described as a “grandfather figure”.  Maybe Jack McKeon was as well back in ‘03 with the Marlins, who knows.  Lol

Phil Jackson with the Lakers?

[Chisoxfn]

1 minute ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Phil Jackson with the Lakers?

Honestly - If I was TLR - I'd literally get on a zoom and just say, you boys like these (and show a hand with 3 rings).  I'd wait a second and say - we are about to put some more of these on my fingers and yours. This is an awesome club and you all are going to take things next level.  I'm excited to work with all of you and build a coaching staff that will work with you and leverage data and skills, etc, to make you the best players you can be and this team the best team we can be.  But remember - winning isn't hard and consistent winning is even harder - this is going to take a ton of work and I know you all are capable and the staff I build is going to push you like hell to be great. Because that is what we are going to be GREAT and I'm going to hold you to that standard and I will hold myself and my coaches to that standard.  

[Chicago White Sox]

5 hours ago, YoYoIsMyHero said:

Also from the article:

But I was told a GM wanting his own manager was a power grab and he should get over his bruised ego that he got overstepped by cronyism.

Harold certainly has his sources, but he also possesses some ridiculous biases and one of those is apparently hating Hahn beyond any rational level.

[michelangelosmonkey]

17 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

And with all that cheating, pills and syringes, and with the self proclaimed genius Tony LaRussa entering three World Series as a heavy favorite, he managed to lose 2 out of 3, one to a team reduced to one Ace pitcher and a crippled pinch hitter, the other to a nazi swastika wearing KKK owner and her favorite dog running the show.

Also lost to the rookie Orioles manager here in 1983. Tony did improve and learn over time, and did an excellent job over the last six years with the Cardinals, though credit must also be given to Walt Jocketty and the solid MLB and ML foundation he built for those teams.

For the record, Hinch did not establish or even support the scheme. The players and one or more coaches started it. Hinch learned of it and tried to stop it when he destroyed the monitor used to relay the signals. The front office and owner (who denied knowledge) supported the scheme, overruled Hinch's objections, and bought a monitor to replace the one Hinch destroyed to keep the scheme going.

For the record I wasn't one of those guys screaming about cheating Hinch.  I wanted Hinch.  I was just pointing out that the narrative in what was supposed to be a feel good season...both nationally and on Sox talk was going to be something like "White Sox hire cheater".   Of course I should have calculated that the national and Sox talk narrative after hiring TLR was going to be "White Sox hire old, racist, cheater".   I need a better hobby than Soxtalk.  

[michelangelosmonkey]

12 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Tony was not my first choice but he knows how to manage what is going on in the field.  Some players need a tough manager and others need a pat on the butt.  This move should be judged after we see the staff assembled.  Many times the coaches need to be the buddies while the manager is the decision maker that decides if your playing in today's game.  Many of us like Eloy's happy go lucky nature but feel he needs to get his head in the game.  Earl Weaver, Billy Martin, Dick Williams, Joe Girardi were all hard nose managers that knew how to win.  Tony with 6 pennants and 3 World Series titles probably will do just fine.

We will not. good sir, suffer through your intolerable rationality and optimism.  Remember the Soxtalk mission...seek out a feel good story and beat it to death with a stick.    

[poppysox]

9 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

We will not. good sir, suffer through your intolerable rationality and optimism.  Remember the Soxtalk mission...seek out a feel good story and beat it to death with a stick.    

I keep forgetting.  

[gusguyman]

19 hours ago, ChiSox1917 said:

She’s the dumbest person in sports journalism and has been for years

 

1 hour ago, ChiSox1917 said:

“I dont agree with him, so therefore hes a clown”.

such a pathetic argument

[ChiSox1917]

39 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

Honestly - If I was TLR - I'd literally get on a zoom and just say, you boys like these (and show a hand with 3 rings).  I'd wait a second and say - we are about to put some more of these on my fingers and yours. This is an awesome club and you all are going to take things next level.  I'm excited to work with all of you and build a coaching staff that will work with you and leverage data and skills, etc, to make you the best players you can be and this team the best team we can be.  But remember - winning isn't hard and consistent winning is even harder - this is going to take a ton of work and I know you all are capable and the staff I build is going to push you like hell to be great. Because that is what we are going to be GREAT and I'm going to hold you to that standard and I will hold myself and my coaches to that standard.  

Fact of the matter is that the guys on our team, while young and exciting, haven't accomplished a damn thing at a team level.  TLR has.  Everywhere he's been.  Working with players of different backgrounds.  Managing guys who flat out hated him (Rolen), those that didn't like him but respected him (Henderson), and guys that loved him (McGwire, Pujols)

The issue of the players on the team being uncertain about this hire really speaks to the inexperience most of them have.  They are not winners...yet.  When they tasted success this year, they let up off the gas and wilted.  The last thing this team needs right now is a "player's manager".  They need someone to show them how to play the game hard all the time, to not make mental mistakes, and how to not let up.  They need a manager who demands their best, not asks or hopes for it.  They have a lot to learn from a guy like TLR.  Certainly a hell of a lot more than TLR has to learn from them.  

 

Edited October 31, 2020 by ChiSox1917

[Harold's Leg Lift]

36 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Harold certainly has his sources, but he also possesses some ridiculous biases and one of those is apparently hating Hahn beyond any rational level.

[poppysox]

6 minutes ago, ChiSox1917 said:

Fact of the matter is that the guys on our team, while young and exciting, haven't accomplished a damn thing at a team level.  TLR has.  Everywhere he's been.  Working with players of different backgrounds.  Managing guys who flat out hated him (Rolen), those that didn't like him but respected him (Henderson), and guys that loved him (McGwire, Pujols)

The issue of the players on the team being uncertain about this hire really speaks to the inexperience most of them have.  They are not winners...yet.  When they tasted success this year, they let up off the gas and wilted.  The last thing this team needs right now is a "player's manager".  They need someone to show them how to play the game hard all the time, to not make mental mistakes, and how to not let up.  They need a manager who demands their best, not asks or hopes for it.  They have a lot to learn from a guy like TLR.  Certainly a hell of a lot more than TLR has to learn from them.  

 

Well written thoughts.

[Quin]

11 minutes ago, ChiSox1917 said:

Fact of the matter is that the guys on our team, while young and exciting, haven't accomplished a damn thing at a team level.  TLR has.  Everywhere he's been.  Working with players of different backgrounds.  Managing guys who flat out hated him (Rolen), those that didn't like him but respected him (Henderson), and guys that loved him (McGwire, Pujols)

The issue of the players on the team being uncertain about this hire really speaks to the inexperience most of them have.  They are not winners...yet.  When they tasted success this year, they let up off the gas and wilted.  The last thing this team needs right now is a "player's manager".  They need someone to show them how to play the game hard all the time, to not make mental mistakes, and how to not let up.  They need a manager who demands their best, not asks or hopes for it.  They have a lot to learn from a guy like TLR.  Certainly a hell of a lot more than TLR has to learn from them.  

 

Tony La Russa was with the Diamondbacks and executed what is considered one of the worst trades of all time, especially because of what was known about how the players were valued at the time.

He traded for the wrong Basabe brother because he didn't get the name right.

He signed Yasmany Tomas.

Their signing of Yoan Lopez blocked their international spending for two years.

Your argument that he has success "everywhere he's been"?

[poppysox]

4 minutes ago, Tony said:

That can all be true......and also true that if that’s what you wanted, there were managers out there with very comparable track records and results.....that haven’t been out of the game for almost a decade. 

I don’t know why this has to get so complicated for everyone. All the facts and evidence has presented itself to all to see. Jerry made this hire, no one else. 

Time will tell if it was a smart move by JR or not.  We will see.

[GreatScott82]

If Grandpa Tony brings in younger fresh minds to be the pitching coach and bench coach, I think that would ease a lot of the stress with this crazy ass hire.
The last thing I want to see is some old ass friend of his on the bench.