AJ Hinch: does it matter to you that he cheated?

[RagahRagah]

2 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

Well you are correct, that does sound a little silly. However, I would prefer someone with experience leading a team to a championship but postseason experience is a huge plus for me.

Agree wholeheartedly. But that's preference, as you said. In no way do I think having won titles should be a prerequisite.

[SonofaRoache]

10 minutes ago, KonerkoFan1 said:

Pretty cut and dry. I think suggesting you HAVE to get a manager who has won a WS is silly, especially when you're contrasting with someone who was terrible. Granted, the guy I want the Sox to get right now has one under his belt, but... well... there admittedly is an asterisk, lol. 

I think it is semantics. They are basically saying they want a proven winner who you know the moment isn't too big for. And a guy that they can evaluate based on the post season handling of his roster and game decisions. 

[southsider2k5]

34 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

There are plenty of managers that had shitty winning percentages before they finally got a good team.   Joe Torre had some less than fun stops with the cardinals and mets before he was granted the Yankees unlimited spending in the 90s.

It's hard for me to quantify how much the cheating affected the wins for the astros, it definitely affected it but to what degree?  The team was and remains competitive, although I think this season was extremely strange and hard to judge what effect the cheating had on the team.  I certainly don't think less of your opinion of him, because neither of us really know what was happening the entire time.

like I said before, a move like this certainly isn't one to brag or be proud about, but I feel he is a good manager based on how he handled his team, his bullpen, in game moves, how hard his players played for him.  A lot of this is anecdotal on my part, but I'm no astros fan so I can only judge what I have seen

Judging managers on winning percentage is like judging hitters on batting average.

[southsider2k5]

20 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

 
Sorry, can you please explain? I don’t know if your for the post or against it? What I meant by it, is why would they hire someone who hasn’t lead a stacked team the past few years to a WS title and think he would lead the Sox to a WS title when we just fired someone who couldn’t lead them to a championship. I don’t know maybe I’m misunderstanding your response. ?

So you are pro-Tony Larussa, Ned Yost, and Ozzie Guillen?

[maloney.adam]

1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said:

I think it is semantics. They are basically saying they want a proven winner who you know the moment isn't too big for. And a guy that they can evaluate based on the post season handling of his roster and game decisions. 

Someone that can handle the pitching staff in big moments is crucial. RR’s bonehead decisions down the stretch especially in the Cleveland series really pissed me off. 

[iWiN4PreP]

Gotta say -- I don't really follow managers.

Anyone have a short detailing of pros/cons of Hinch? 

pros/cons of any other managers out there? 

Hard to decipher through all these posts right now. 

On one hand, of course I don't like Hinch being a cheater astro... but on the other hand if he really is super talented and a breath of fresh air from the Cooper/Renteria stages, this might be an amazing thing.

[maloney.adam]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

So you are pro-Tony Larussa, Ned Yost, and Ozzie Guillen?

No hahaha! AJ Hinch, Sandy Alomar JR., Matt Quatraro, and maybe someone like Joe Espada. The last three haven’t managed or coached a team to a WS title but they have postseason experience so I would still approve. That may change though if either TB or Houston wins this year. Huge pass on Cora because he was the one along with Beltran that developed the whole Astros cheating scheme. Not to say what Hinch did was correct. He was still responsible for everything going on in that clubhouse but I feel he should be given another chance to manage a team. I don’t think they should go backwards, only forwards especially in today’s baseball world with analytics, etc. The only manager that I would approve if they went for older is Terry Francona but that’s a really big if with his health. 

Edited October 14, 2020 by maloney.adam

[Jerksticks]

2 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Gotta say -- I don't really follow managers.

Anyone have a short detailing of pros/cons of Hinch? 

pros/cons of any other managers out there? 

Hard to decipher through all these posts right now. 

On one hand, of course I don't like Hinch being a cheater astro... but on the other hand if he really is super talented and a breath of fresh air from the Cooper/Renteria stages, this might be an amazing thing.

I do t think anybody here knows a damn thing about Hinch, how his players played for him, how his in-game managing is, how he uses a bullpen etc. Nobody here knows a thing about it.  
 

They just know he sucked in AZ and then had some really good teams in Houston and won a World Series.  And we also know they cheated.  
 

The rest is speculation, wishful thinking, an anybody-but-RR bias, and hope mixed into a stew. 

[poppysox]

40 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Judging managers on winning percentage is like judging hitters on batting average.

Yeah...there are really lots of .330 hitters who are lousy hitters.?

[jamesdiego]

21 hours ago, Quin said:

Article for those interested:
 

https://slate.com/culture/2020/01/mets-rape-accusation-spring-training-1991.html

Yea, that’s the one.  I can’t even read that again.  Fuck those three guys in my book.  And fuck that New York reporter to wrote a smear article about the victim, which seemed to push her over the edge to commit suicide.  That was disgusting.  
 

The Sox should have separated and washed hands of him before the season started.  I was thinking about making a thread on it but didn’t want to take away  any good vibes happening this season.   
 

Personally, for an organization to profess so much about caring about social justice issues, they sure didn’t care too much about this woman.  It’s disappointing.  
 

The whole thing puts Hinch and cheating in perspective for me.  There are far worse things that baseball professionals have done.  And have gotten away with right here in our organization.  

[southsider2k5]

30 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Yeah...there are really lots of .330 hitters who are lousy hitters.?

Sure, but there are .230 hitters who add big time value to a line up.

[SonofaRoache]

52 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

I do t think anybody here knows a damn thing about Hinch, how his players played for him, how his in-game managing is, how he uses a bullpen etc. Nobody here knows a thing about it.  
 

They just know he sucked in AZ and then had some really good teams in Houston and won a World Series.  And we also know they cheated.  
 

The rest is speculation, wishful thinking, an anybody-but-RR bias, and hope mixed into a stew. 

Not true. The Astros boards was very informative about Hinch and they agreed that he was a top 5 manager. They said he did a great job managing for them and made great decisions. I think based on the research I've done that this is true. A big con for me may be that he is not a Matt Nagy type of leader, but this team doesn't need that. Hinch will need to get the guys behind him by remaining honest with them and fair. Timmy, Abreu, and DK can do the more emotional leading. All we would need him to do is put the team in the best position to win every game. I think you get that with him. 

[poppysox]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Sure, but there are .230 hitters who add big time value to a line up.

Are there any .150 hitters who add "big-time value?"  

[southsider2k5]

Just now, poppysox said:

Are there any .150 hitters who add "big-time value?"  

Sure, they are called pitchers.  See the point of only looking at winning percentage when it comes to a job?

[poppysox]

14 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Sure, they are called pitchers.  See the point of only looking at winning percentage when it comes to a job?

I feel you are being deliberately obtuse.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, poppysox said:

I feel you are being deliberately obtuse.

That is exactly the point.  If you are ONLY looking at winning percentage as a success rating of a manager, you are intentionally leaving out tons of information which will give you a better insight as to what is going on with a manager.

[SonofaRoache]

2 hours ago, maloney.adam said:

DR kind of reminds me of RR except DR has a better winning percentage and more experience in the postseason obviously. I still wouldn’t hire him though because the past few years he hasn’t won a WS title with the stacked teams he has had. So what makes you think he will win a WS title with the Sox? Doesn’t make sense to fire RR and replace him with someone who hasn’t won a WS title. Pass.

 

2016- Dodgers lost to the best team in baseball, the Cubs.

2017- Dodgers lost the WS to an Astros team that was just as good as they were if not better. 

2018- Dodgers lost WS to the best team in baseball, the Red Sox. 

2019- Dodgers lost in game 5 to red hot Nationals who won the WS. 

2020- Losing NLCS to a very good Braves team that they probably should have beaten. Kershaw did not pitch game 2 so there is that. 

 

2020 is the only season I think the Dodgers underperformed. And 2020 is a fluky year and the Braves are very good. The other years they lost to the team that won the WS. In those cases, those teams were the best in baseball. 

[Kyyle23]

27 minutes ago, poppysox said:

I feel you are being deliberately obtuse.

Last time I heard this phrase, it resulted in a man being locked away in solitary for a month.   

[poppysox]

2 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Last time I heard this phrase, it resulted in a man being locked away in solitary for a month.   

Around and around it goes and where it stops...nobody knows.

[Kyyle23]

I feel like my Shawshank reference was missed

[chetkincaid]

I think about how a lot of the guys on the roster who've been there for years under Renteria are going to feel about the front office firing their manager and bringing in the new guy's (Keuchel) manager. How is that going to impact the culture? Keuchel wasn't even there a full year and criticized some of the players. Maybe there will be some resentment towards Keuchel and Hinch. 

[fathom]

6 minutes ago, chetkincaid said:

I think about how a lot of the guys on the roster who've been there for years under Renteria are going to feel about the front office firing their manager and bringing in the new guy's (Keuchel) manager. How is that going to impact the culture? Keuchel wasn't even there a full year and criticized some of the players. Maybe there will be some resentment towards Keuchel and Hinch. 

I think some of them need a little kick in the ass

[chetkincaid]

4 minutes ago, fathom said:

I think some of them need a little kick in the ass

I don't think Hinch is the guy to do that. It's been said that he didn't have control of the clubhouse in Houston.

[hi8is]

3 minutes ago, chetkincaid said:

It's been said that he didn't have control of the clubhouse in Houston.

Ya think? ?

[jamesdiego]

58 minutes ago, chetkincaid said:

I think about how a lot of the guys on the roster who've been there for years under Renteria are going to feel about the front office firing their manager and bringing in the new guy's (Keuchel) manager. How is that going to impact the culture? Keuchel wasn't even there a full year and criticized some of the players. Maybe there will be some resentment towards Keuchel and Hinch. 

I think some of the players themselves were probably dumbfounded by some of Ricky’s decisions.  That is a guess, but I believe some have to feel that way.  They care about winning and see zero problems on the horizon from whoever the Sox would choose.  Having resentments or anger does nothing fur the team, and these guys are roundly team players and will be all in.