AJ Hinch: does it matter to you that he cheated?

[Middle Buffalo]

3 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

What'd Berkman have to do with anything?  Isn't he coaching in college somewhere?

Forget it, he’s rolling.

[ron883]

6 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

What'd Berkman have to do with anything?  Isn't he coaching in college somewhere?  Say it aint so Big Puma/ Fat Elvis!

He adds 10 more names to that list and we can call him caulfield 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Yearnin' for Yermin

[Harold's Leg Lift]

59 minutes ago, Thad Bosley said:

So with Hinch, was he once-upon-a-time thought to be this super, up-and-coming managerial talent that, despite the cheating episode, he is the envy of Rick Hahn?  I’m trying to understand why the Sox or any team would be interested in him at all given the seriousness of the cheating scandal. 

Hahn wants a guy he can control.  He wants a yes man.  That's all Hinch would be. A suit dressed as a manager.  

[southsider2k5]

18 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

What'd Berkman have to do with anything?  Isn't he coaching in college somewhere?  Say it aint so Big Puma/ Fat Elvis!

Bah, that was supposed to be Bregman. 

[CyAcosta41]

It will 100% bother me a lot if Hinch (or Cora) is hired.

The binary nature implied by this question -- win with the consensus best guy, overlooking some "warts" VERSUS run scared of the "warts" and settle for less -- is fallacious.

Strong case can be made that Hinch is not some irrefutable genius is a must get, all other factors (and candidates) be damned -- his humble AZ start and his failure to win it all outside of a cheating environment raises question about his genius bona fides.

More importantly, the very fact that blatant and rampant cheating occurred under his watch can be argued to instantly take him out of the "best guy" category.

Yes, people make mistakes and deserve 2nd chances. And, I actually do think that Hinch is a strong overall manager and will likely do a fine job with a really good and possibly soon a stellar roster.

But if I own the team (I don't), or if I'm looooong time obsessive fan (I am -- first attended game in 1962 at age 4), I want the organization to be represented by someone you could take true pride in having as your manager, someone whose leadership doesn't contain pretty fricking big and RECENT warts.

It's not binary -- there are other top baseball guys who can offer a great chance of maximizing this roster while providing exemplary leadership. Finding THAT GUY isn't settling for less, it's making sure the selection choice includes a proper weighting of all factors.

For me -- no Hinch, no Cora -- there are other choices.

No LaRussa -- once upon a time got results, but that was a long time ago, and with a different society and breed of player.

My top candidates would come from one of two areas: (1) top bench coaches who have apprenticed in top organizations (e.g., Espada, Quatraro, and others); or (2) a veteran or RECENTLY (sorry, Tony) retired successful manager with RINGS -- and my leading candidate here, by far, is Bruce Bochy. He's won it all three times -- but each time with very different rosters -- and exudes professionalism.

Others have said it here (and in the press), but pairing Bochy with in-house whiz kid Justin Jirschele (who is also fluent in Spanish, if he didn't already tick off all the other boxes) makes so much sense. Bring in a pro with rings. Check. Bring up your star pupil for graduate school work with an acknowledged master. Double Check. Marry new outside influences with the continuity of someone who has worked with most of the young players on the roster already. Check, check, and checkmate.

I hope this is what they'll do.

For those who have never seen it -- the NYT wrote an amazing profile of Jirschele a few years back:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/14/magazine/making-an-mlb-manager.html

[Bob Sacamano]

1 hour ago, Thad Bosley said:

So with Hinch, was he once-upon-a-time thought to be this super, up-and-coming managerial talent that, despite the cheating episode, he is the envy of Rick Hahn?  I’m trying to understand why the Sox or any team would be interested in him at all given the seriousness of the cheating scandal. 

it's a shame the punishments (or lack thereof for the players) doesn't really reflect this.

Edited October 20, 2020 by manbearpuig

[maloney.adam]

9 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Hahn wants a guy he can control.  He wants a yes man.  That's all Hinch would be. A suit dressed as a manager.  

And you want a guy that is 76 years old and way past his prime. The game has changed buddy move on. ?

Edited October 20, 2020 by maloney.adam

[Harold's Leg Lift]

2 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

And you want a guy that is 76 years old and way past his prime. The game has changed buddy move on. ?

Where did I say I wanted LaRussa?

[southsider2k5]

8 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

And you want a guy that is 76 years old and way past his prime. The game has changed buddy move on. ?

Who oversaw the biggest cheating scandal of the 80s and 90s.

[maloney.adam]

8 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Where did I say I wanted 

See post below from the Tony or Ricky thread. Maybe I misunderstood and if so who do you want for manager?

   20 hours ago,  sin city sox fan said:

I used to believe that.....however, I now believe it’s Tony’s job if he wants it.   And if we aren’t getting Ozzie, I really don’t think it’s a bad fallback option.   The biggest problem this team had this year was bullpen management and that has never been a problem with LaRussa teams.

Your comment: I think he'll be good.  He'll run the bullpen correctly, play the guys who are supposed to play and hit guys where they're supposed to hit.  Pretty simple.  

Edited October 20, 2020 by maloney.adam

[Harold's Leg Lift]

11 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

See post below from the Tony or Ricky thread. Maybe I misunderstood and if so who do you want for manager?

   20 hours ago,  sin city sox fan said:

I used to believe that.....however, I now believe it’s Tony’s job if he wants it.   And if we aren’t getting Ozzie, I really don’t think it’s a bad fallback option.   The biggest problem this team had this year was bullpen management and that has never been a problem with LaRussa teams.

Your comment: I think he'll be good.  He'll run the bullpen correctly, play the guys who are supposed to play and hit guys where they're supposed to hit.  Pretty simple.  

I do think he'll be good but I also said he comes with too much baggage.  The guy I think they should hire is Bochy.

[maloney.adam]

13 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I do think he'll be good but I also said he comes with too much baggage.  The guy I think they should hire is Bochy.

I gotcha now! So your just not in favor of hiring Hinch because of the whole scandal? How about if they hire Hinch and they win multiple World Series championships without any cheating, would you feel the same way about him? 

Bochy is actually a good choice, eventhough his age is up there as well. If it were between Francona or Bochy, would you still pick Bochy?

Edited October 20, 2020 by maloney.adam

[Harold's Leg Lift]

13 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

I gotcha now! So your just not in favor of hiring Hinch because of the whole scandal? How about if they hire Hinch and they win multiple World Series championships without any cheating, would you feel the same way about him? 

Bochy is actually a good choice, eventhough his age is up there as well. If it were between Francona or Bochy, would you still pick Bochy?

I don't want Hinch for lots of reasons.  I haven't heard Francona's name as a possibility but if he is that choice is a win/win.  

[ron883]

21 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I don't want Hinch for lots of reasons.  I haven't heard Francona's name as a possibility but if he is that choice is a win/win.  

Francona has had some significant health issues and is under contract with the Indians still. I'm sure everybody would like that pick if he was healthy and available, but he isn't. 

Nevermind, i see you were just answering somebody's question.

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Yearnin' for Yermin

[Dick Allen]

Hinch was a candidate for the Cubs job back in the day but Ricky had a better interview.