Mazara and Right Field Thread

[RagahRagah]

40 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

I'm trying to overcome all the typos and grammar errors (your process) to try to understand your point.   It seems like your are trying to suggest that the non random process of sports talent evaluation, roster building and franchise budget constraints is the same as the mathematically quantifiable randomness of card playing which further suggests you like using big words and big concepts without actually understanding them.  Still the great thing about Soxtalk is you can get all the joy out of b****ing about the idiocy of Hahn's process while I enjoy years of great play by the team he has assembled.  Vive la différence  

My grammar is simply due to typing on my phone before leaving work, so my apologies for that.

But yet again here we have an instance of someone laying everything out and the person who is opposing him essentially throwing it all out and not providing much of any counterpoint. It's weird how you claim I'm using "big words" (I'm actually not, you attempting to insult me for being comprehensive shows insecurity) and claim don't know what they mean yet you failed to counter a single point or explain what they actually mean.

You thinking card playing is "random" (poker is a highly statistical game of skill, not just luck) is a perfect example of you being in an argument you have no business being in in the first place.

The more good decisions you make, the more good results you will have. The more bad decisions you make, the more bed results you will have. A broken clock is a broken clock, you don't commend for being correct twice a day. Making a bad decision doesn't cease to be a bad decision because you lucked out and got a good result.

It becomes tiresome when people constantly make claims that they then fail 100% to support with literally anything and just reply with fluff rants.

Edited October 26, 2020 by RagahRagah

[Stinky Stanky]

Engel and Mazara.  Mazara was coming around at the end, hitting the opposite way, true, but looking comfortable at the plate.  Spend the money elsewhere.  I think he was sicker than anyone is saying.  But spend the money.

[michelangelosmonkey]

4 hours ago, RagahRagah said:

My grammar is simply due to typing on my phone before leaving work, so my apologies for that.

But yet again here we have an instance of someone laying everything out and the person who is opposing him essentially throwing it all out and not providing much of any counterpoint. It's weird how you claim I'm using "big words" (I'm actually not, you attempting to insult me for being comprehensive shows insecurity) and claim don't know what they mean yet you failed to counter a single point or explain what they actually mean.

You thinking card playing is "random" (poker is a highly statistical game of skill, not just luck) is a perfect example of you being in an argument you have no business being in in the first place.

The more good decisions you make, the more good results you will have. The more bad decisions you make, the more bed results you will have. A broken clock is a broken clock, you don't commend for being correct twice a day. Making a bad decision doesn't cease to be a bad decision because you lucked out and got a good result.

It becomes tiresome when people constantly make claims that they then fail 100% to support with literally anything and just reply with fluff rants.

I'm not exactly sure if you are spoofing me or are really this dumb.  Card playing is random...there are 52 random outcomes (presuming you shuffle).  Saying it is highly statistical (as opposed to lowly statistical???) just means you can make calculations on the probability of what the next card will be.  Memorizing the cards played and a skill at bluffing does not make poker four dimensional chess.  Still if you want to conflate your game of chance into some Einsteinian labyrinth...good on you.  I laid out my arguments about Hahn and free agency in five detailed posts after the initial one that you commented on (by insulting me).  If it is too troublesome for you to read so many words...I understand.  I have no problem with you saying quantum physics is like darts, thoracic surgery is like marbles or building a winning sports franchise is like parchisi...this is a forum for arguments and all should be welcome no matter how crazy.   But good sir...when you start calling people fluff ranters you have gone too far.      

[poppysox]

On 10/25/2020 at 11:16 PM, HahnsKiddieTable said:

Most MLB players could give 2 shits about batting average. Just the honest truth in this game today. It’s all power, let’s be honest no one is getting paid for just a high batting average 

I wish the FO would have paid a little more attention to Avi's high batting average.

[Balta1701]

3 hours ago, poppysox said:

I wish the FO would have paid a little more attention to Avi's high batting average.

His .271 career mark, the .236 he put up in his final season with the white Sox, or the .238 he put up this year?

[southsider2k5]

13 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

His .271 career mark, the .236 he put up in his final season with the white Sox, or the .238 he put up this year?

I have been told that .271 is a great batting average for AL RFs between 2016 and 2019.

[RagahRagah]

10 hours ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

I'm not exactly sure if you are spoofing me or are really this dumb.  Card playing is random...there are 52 random outcomes (presuming you shuffle).  Saying it is highly statistical (as opposed to lowly statistical???) just means you can make calculations on the probability of what the next card will be.  Memorizing the cards played and a skill at bluffing does not make poker four dimensional chess.  Still if you want to conflate your game of chance into some Einsteinian labyrinth...good on you.  I laid out my arguments about Hahn and free agency in five detailed posts after the initial one that you commented on (by insulting me).  If it is too troublesome for you to read so many words...I understand.  I have no problem with you saying quantum physics is like darts, thoracic surgery is like marbles or building a winning sports franchise is like parchisi...this is a forum for arguments and all should be welcome no matter how crazy.   But good sir...when you start calling people fluff ranters you have gone too far.      

Clearly you're a person who has never actually played poker at anything other than a home game level so obviously I'm not going to get anywhere with you here; saying there are "52 outcomes" where it pertains to card playing is about the biggest oversimplification I've ever witnessed someone use; to the point if absurdity. Using statistics is how you consistently win at poker, just like pretty much anything else in life.

Your arguments were invalidated for the most part and just like the other poster I sparred with you consistently failed to address the counter points and instead just go off on, as I said, fluff rantings. It's not going too far to simply point out a fact.

You're way in over your head and don't even grasp what you are talking about.

[poppysox]

11 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

His .271 career mark, the .236 he put up in his final season with the white Sox, or the .238 he put up this year?

His 2017 season average of .330.  The two seasons you refer to are injury driven (shortened) as I'm sure you know.  Just goes to show that numbers can say whatever you want them to say.

[Balta1701]

36 minutes ago, poppysox said:

His 2017 season average of .330.  The two seasons you refer to are injury driven (shortened) as I'm sure you know.  Just goes to show that numbers can say whatever you want them to say.

Why do you wish they had paid extra attention to that year? Would you have felt happier with him being terrible in RF for us this year instead of Mazara being terrible out there? 

Actually there is one thing I do wish Hahn would have learned from Garcia.

Hahn in 2018: “no one will give us anyone of use for a talented but underperforming RF who is 2 years from free agency”.

Hahn in 2020: “You have a talented but underperforming RF 2 years from free agency? Here take my second round pick! Yay I’m so lucky no one outbid me.”

[Dick Allen]

8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Why do you wish they had paid extra attention to that year? Would you have felt happier with him being terrible in RF for us this year instead of Mazara being terrible out there? 

Actually there is one thing I do wish Hahn would have learned from Garcia.

Hahn in 2018: “no one will give us anyone of use for a talented but underperforming RF who is 2 years from free agency”.

Hahn in 2020: “You have a talented but underperforming RF 2 years from free agency? Here take my second round pick! Yay I’m so lucky no one outbid me.”

What he should have done is what Al Aliva did with James McCann. Let the bum go.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

I have been told that .271 is a great batting average for AL RFs between 2016 and 2019.

Especially when paired with a monster 20 bombs!

[chitownsportsfan]

If you had "building a winning franchise is like parchisi" on your Sox Talk offseaon bingo card go ahead and retire early.

[hi8is]

1 hour ago, RagahRagah said:

Clearly you're a person who has never actually played poker at anything other than a home game level so obviously I'm not going to get anywhere with you here; saying there are "52 outcomes" where it pertains to card playing is about the biggest oversimplification I've ever witnessed someone use; to the point if absurdity. Using statistics is how you consistently win at poker, just like pretty much anything else in life.

Your arguments were invalidated for the most part and just like the other poster I sparred with you consistently failed to address the counter points and instead just go off on, as I said, fluff rantings. It's not going too far to simply point out a fact.

You're way in over your head and don't even grasp what you are talking about.

@michelangelosmonkey and @RagahRagah- can you both keep it down please?

I’m trying to conserve all my energy for focusing on Nomar Mazara conversation. It’s fascinating!!!

[The Hawk]

48 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Especially when paired with a monster 20 bombs!

How many right fielders in the AL hit more than 20? I might be wrong, but I think that Mazara is going to rebound next year, I've read that he is doing well and getting his strength and his stroke back. We will see what happens. But he is going to play for someone in the major leagues next season.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

11 minutes ago, The Hawk said:

How many right fielders in the AL hit more than 20? I might be wrong, but I think that Mazara is going to rebound next year, I've read that he is doing well and getting his strength and his stroke back. We will see what happens. But he is going to play for someone in the major leagues next season.

 

Here is FG’s 2019 leaderboard filtered on RF and sorted by HRs.  I have not gone through it detail to see how generous their definition of RF is but the point is a lot of guys hit 20 bombs.

[southsider2k5]

9 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Here is FG’s 2019 leaderboard filtered on RF and sorted by HRs.  I have not gone through it detail to see how generous their definition of RF is but the point is a lot of guys hit 20 bombs.

Its deja vu all over again.

[yesterday333]

20 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Here is FG’s 2019 leaderboard filtered on RF and sorted by HRs.  I have not gone through it detail to see how generous their definition of RF is but the point is a lot of guys hit 20 bombs.

 Can you post the leader board for RF ops? I’m really bad at pulling this stuff on fangraphs

[The Hawk]

17 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Here is FG’s 2019 leaderboard filtered on RF and sorted by HRs.  I have not gone through it detail to see how generous their definition of RF is but the point is a lot of guys hit 20 bombs.

 

7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Its deja vu all over again.

 

   Yeah. I saw this graph also. First of all, I talked about the American league and half of those players roughly were national league players. 20 is still in the high plateau for all right fielders. Mazara in 2019 also only played in 118 games while Dexter Fowler Choo, Castelanos, Puig, Betts, and many others played in 150+.

[southsider2k5]

Just now, The Hawk said:

 

 

   Yeah. I saw this graph also. First of all, I talked about the American league and half of those players roughly were national league players. 20 is still in the high plateau for all right fielders. Mazara in 2019 also only played in 118 games while Dexter Fowler Choo, Castelanos, Puig, Betts, and many others played in 150+.

Something  I have been hinting at, but am going to just flat out say now... If you have to actively disqualify half of baseball and entire seasons of baseball to try to argue that someone is a good player,  you aren't really proving that they are a good player.  The National League is still major league baseball, and what they do, does count.  It also doesn't help to disqualify one guys worst season, but not anyone else's.  The numbers have been posted over and over again, and no matter how you move the goalposts around, even if you try to isolate down to just a single counting stat, Nomar Mazara has not been a "good" or even average RF.  It just isn't true.  None of what you have said actually proves out.  o matter how many times you wrongly repeat it, it won't be true.

[Chicago White Sox]

6 minutes ago, yesterday333 said:

 Can you post the leader board for RF ops? I’m really bad at pulling this stuff on fangraphs

What do you mean by “ops”?  You just want the link to what I just posted?  If so, see below:

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=rf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=150&type=8&season=2019&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2019-01-01&enddate=2019-12-31&sort=5,d

[southsider2k5]

8 minutes ago, yesterday333 said:

 Can you post the leader board for RF ops? I’m really bad at pulling this stuff on fangraphs

If you are looking for the 2016 to 2019 RF leaderboard by OPS, Nomar Mazara is 57th overall and 32nd if you narrow it to just the AL.

[chitownsportsfan]

5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If you are looking for the 2016 to 2019 RF leaderboard by OPS, Nomar Mazara is 57th overall and 32nd if you narrow it to just the AL.

Some people are still holding IBM stock too.  The breakout is coming!

[Leonard Zelig]

George Springer Rumors: Astros Star 'Does Not Want to Return' in Free Agency

 

[yesterday333]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If you are looking for the 2016 to 2019 RF leaderboard by OPS, Nomar Mazara is 57th overall and 32nd if you narrow it to just the AL.

That is what I was looking for haha. Just furthering the point that there is no way to slice it and make him an average player...

[The Hawk]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Something  I have been hinting at, but am going to just flat out say now... If you have to actively disqualify half of baseball and entire seasons of baseball to try to argue that someone is a good player,  you aren't really proving that they are a good player.  The National League is still major league baseball, and what they do, does count.  It also doesn't help to disqualify one guys worst season, but not anyone else's.  The numbers have been posted over and over again, and no matter how you move the goalposts around, even if you try to isolate down to just a single counting stat, Nomar Mazara has not been a "good" or even average RF.  It just isn't true.  None of what you have said actually proves out.  o matter how many times you wrongly repeat it, it won't be true.

  First of all, I said the American league from the beginning as we began to argue. I wanted to argue apples to apples. One of the reasons is that the AL is a DH league and the NL is not.  The NL happens to try and get more of its offensive production from its outfield positions than the AL does because the AL uses the DH for a lot of its power needs. The AL also has more older power hitters in it for that reason also which makes young power guys like Mazara a bit rare.

    You haven't proven anything that I've said as being false. Mazara is still in the top 25-33% of all major league right field power hitters. That quality makes him, to me an AVERAGE major league right fielder. YOu feel different? Fine. that is your opinion.