Mazara and Right Field Thread

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, The Hawk said:

I guess that you can't answer my simple question. I asked who enters this data for range factor and the "Inside Edge" stuff? As for as my not being able to "handle" these "stats", that's pretty funny since I had a statistics emphasis in graduate school. I can "handle" statistics just peachy, my friend. I also can handle the fact that many(not all) of these advanced stats aren't worth a crap as a bottom line. Also, tell me when they are going to give a huge trophy for best Range Factor or "Inside Edge" stuff like they do for the best batting average in the league, most home runs, or most RBIs? 

    Since you have decided to start the insult wagon my way, I will defer on my end. have fun with your stat sheets my friend:)

Translation: I have nothing, and am trying to save face.

Come back when you have any proof of anything. 

[The Hawk]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Please show us any of those trophies?

Never one any. Find them yourself.

[Balta1701]

Just now, The Hawk said:

Never one any. Find them yourself.

They don't exist but here's a best batting average in cricket trophy from 1887.

[The Hawk]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Translation: I have nothing, and am trying to save face.

Come back when you have any proof of anything. 

Nah. Too much work to pull data off, format it and copy it on a board like this. I don't have to "prove"  anything. I know that Mazara had good power numbers over the years  2016-2019 for a right fielder. You prove he didn't. That is the way I roll:)

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, The Hawk said:

Nah. Too much work to pull data off, format it and copy it on a board like this. I don't have to "prove"  anything. I know that Mazara had good power numbers over the years  2016-2019 for a right fielder. You prove he didn't. That is the way I roll:)

 

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, The Hawk said:

Nah. Too much work to pull data off, format it and copy it on a board like this. I don't have to "prove"  anything. I know that Mazara had good power numbers over the years  2016-2019 for a right fielder. You prove he didn't. That is the way I roll:)

Mark Trumbo has played 12 games since August 19 of 2018.

He has more Home Runs over that stretch than Nomar Mazara. 

[The Hawk]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

They sure as hell aren't just looking at batting average and home runs.

No, they aren't just looking at batting average and home runs. RBIs are looked at as well as OBP. And a right fielder is an important defensive positions as well. You might want to consider that Mazara does have a good number of assists in his four seasons which is a testament to his arm strength. He does have a very strong arm.  But southsider, batting average and home runs and RBIs are still the make or break stats for measuring especially the baseball positions which are counted on to deliver runs. That is just the truth of things.

[Vote4Pedro]

3 minutes ago, The Hawk said:

No, they aren't just looking at batting average and home runs. RBIs are looked at as well as OBP. And a right fielder is an important defensive positions as well. You might want to consider that Mazara does have a good number of assists in his four seasons which is a testament to his arm strength. He does have a very strong arm.  But southsider, batting average and home runs and RBIs are still the make or break stats for measuring especially the baseball positions which are counted on to deliver runs. That is just the truth of things.

Most MLB players could give 2 shits about batting average. Just the honest truth in this game today. It’s all power, let’s be honest no one is getting paid for just a high batting average 

[The Hawk]

9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Mark Trumbo has played 12 games since August 19 of 2018.

He has more Home Runs over that stretch than Nomar Mazara. 

Balta. Quit embarrassing yourself. Seriously. Trumbo hit a total of 17 home runs in all of 2018 and 2019. Mazara hit 39 in the same years.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, The Hawk said:

No, they aren't just looking at batting average and home runs. RBIs are looked at as well as OBP. And a right fielder is an important defensive positions as well. You might want to consider that Mazara does have a good number of assists in his four seasons which is a testament to his arm strength. He does have a very strong arm.  But southsider, batting average and home runs and RBIs are still the make or break stats for measuring especially the baseball positions which are counted on to deliver runs. That is just the truth of things.

Leury Garcia has more outfield assists than Nomar Mazara. Avisail Garcia missed 2/3 of 2016 and half of 2018 and he has as many outfield assists over that time period as Mazara. Mazara has, in 5 years, never once appeared in the top 10 in outfield assists. You're not even looking these up beforehand.

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, The Hawk said:

Balta. Quit embarrassing yourself. Seriously. Trumbo hit a total of 17 home runs in all of 2018 and 2019. Mazara hit 39 in the same years.

Exactly. A guy who hit 17 home runs in 2018 while playing 2/3 of a season isn't a particularly good power hitter. Neither is a guy who hit 20. Thank you for agreeing. Now where are the trophy photos? You insisted they existed where are they?

[The Hawk]

2 minutes ago, HahnsKiddieTable said:

Most MLB players could give 2 shits about batting average. Just the honest truth in this game today. It’s all power, let’s be honest no one is getting paid for just a high batting average 

I doubt that. BA and OBP are still very important. Its funny. I was on another board a couple of years ago and a lot of the stat geeks there told me how unimportant RBIs were in the game. Yeah there is a new emphasis on home runs but its still the same game and you need baserunners to score runs still.

[The Hawk]

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Leury Garcia has more outfield assists than Nomar Mazara. Avisail Garcia missed 2/3 of 2016 and half of 2018 and he has as many outfield assists over that time period as Mazara. Mazara has, in 5 years, never once appeared in the top 10 in outfield assists. You're not even looking these up beforehand.

Look, Balta. I just looked up Leury Garcia and you are wrong once again. He has a total of SIX Right Field assists over six years of play. Mazara had 7 alone in 2016.

[RagahRagah]

On 10/24/2020 at 8:31 AM, michelangelosmonkey said:

Ohmigod...run for cover Hawk.  There is a LOUD faction of Hahn haters here.  With free agency please try to place all your focus on the 2016-2019 period when the White Sox were actively trying to keep payroll low and not to compete...and ignore Free agent signings like Abreau, Robert, McCann, Kuechel, Grandal as that does not fit the narrative.  With trade talk the only discussion point is that we traded a guy universally thought of as the future best player in baseball for a broken down pitcher who everyone knew was terrible.  When discussing Hahn's first round drafting...focus on Carson Fulmer and Jake Burger and steer away from Tim Anderson, Madrigal, Vaughan and Crochett.   And when discussing managers, point out how stupid Renteria and Cooper are and that Hahn will never get rid of them because he's weak and stupid.   The beast cannot be killed...so try to appease.      

Another person who doesn't understand grading things by process rather than result, I see.

Your sample size of "free agents" is at best the same as the amount that have been poor anyway.

You're also not taking into account all the perfect fits for this team he failed to sign, and that's not even taking into consideration the whiffs on Machado and Wheeler.

[Balta1701]

8 minutes ago, The Hawk said:

Look, Balta. I just looked up Leury Garcia and you are wrong once again. He has a total of SIX Right Field assists over six years of play. Mazara had 7 alone in 2016.

I said outfield assists, you changed my words. Check outfield assists. Leury actually led the league in 2019 in those, and he wasn't nearly a full time outfielder, which illustrates how weak that stat is for Mazara. You don't get to rewrite my words. But you want to do something really blatant? Leury played 45 games in RF in 2019, 284 innings. He had 4 assists as a right fielder. Nomar Mazara played 101 games in RF in 2019, 878 innings. He had 4 assists as a right fielder that year. That's...not impressive. 

Where are the trophies? You don't want to admit you're a liar do you? You said there are batting average, home run, and RBI trophies. I'm waiting. 

[southsider2k5]

9 hours ago, The Hawk said:

Nah. Too much work to pull data off, format it and copy it on a board like this. I don't have to "prove"  anything. I know that Mazara had good power numbers over the years  2016-2019 for a right fielder. You prove he didn't. That is the way I roll:)

Hint: You are wrong.

Again.

 

[southsider2k5]

8 hours ago, The Hawk said:

No, they aren't just looking at batting average and home runs. RBIs are looked at as well as OBP. And a right fielder is an important defensive positions as well. You might want to consider that Mazara does have a good number of assists in his four seasons which is a testament to his arm strength. He does have a very strong arm.  But southsider, batting average and home runs and RBIs are still the make or break stats for measuring especially the baseball positions which are counted on to deliver runs. That is just the truth of things.

1986 called and they want their stats back.

[The Hawk]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Hint: You are wrong.

Again.

 

You say that but obviously you are the one who is wrong. 79 home runs over a four year period is above average for any major league position including right field. And hitting 79 home runs by the age of 25 years old is really unusual for any major league player.

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, The Hawk said:

You say that but obviously you are the one who is wrong. 79 home runs over a four year period is above average for any major league position including right field. And hitting 79 home runs by the age of 25 years old is really unusual for any major league player.

Again, it isn't.  I actually took the time to do the search. 

You are wrong.

Again.

[The Hawk]

11 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I said outfield assists, you changed my words. Check outfield assists. Leury actually led the league in 2019 in those, and he wasn't nearly a full time outfielder, which illustrates how weak that stat is for Mazara. You don't get to rewrite my words. But you want to do something really blatant? Leury played 45 games in RF in 2019, 284 innings. He had 4 assists as a right fielder. Nomar Mazara played 101 games in RF in 2019, 878 innings. He had 4 assists as a right fielder that year. That's...not impressive. 

Where are the trophies? You don't want to admit you're a liar do you? You said there are batting average, home run, and RBI trophies. I'm waiting. 

This is a sports board of White Sox fans. No need for name calling. We are talking about right field and you brought up Garcia having more assists than Mazara. Well, Leury played a lot of right field for the White Sox and Mazara had more assists as a right fielder.

As for trophies, I talked about them in jest about the importance of stuff like Range Factor and Inside Edges metrics. But in truth, baseball does recognize hitting performance in a way with the awards that it gives for hitting performance in the form of Silver Slugger awards which are Silver Bats given to the outstanding players at their respective positions for a given year(including National League pitchers by the way). I don't think that they have been awarded yet this year but my guess is that Jose Abreu will get the award for 1B and Anderson will win it for Short-stop. Don't think that Mazara or Garcia will get many votes this year:)

[The Hawk]

11 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Exactly. A guy who hit 17 home runs in 2018 while playing 2/3 of a season isn't a particularly good power hitter. Neither is a guy who hit 20. Thank you for agreeing. Now where are the trophy photos? You insisted they existed where are they?

Don't be a dork, man. YOu are bouncing all over the place with these inane statements of yours and I do not like looking shit up to prove you wrong which you are in respect for above average power numbers for right field. You said that Trumbo had more home runs from mid August of 2018 through 2019 than Mazara did from 2018-2019. He did not yet I wasted time digging that shit up. From now on, I am done with doing that. You've got an opinion that Mazara is worthless. The facts are that he is at least an average all around right fielder and hitter. Waste someone else's time.

[The Hawk]

27 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Again, it isn't.  I actually took the time to do the search. 

You are wrong.

Again.

Prove it. What was the average home run production of American league right fielders for the years 2016-2019?  Mazara had an average of 20 home runs during that time frame. You will find if you wade through this stuff that there really are not a lot of American league right fielders that hit many home runs while playing that position regularly. nd I also noticed that some teams get forced to play guys out there that already have a DH limited defense type in left field and in an effort to bring another bat, place him in right field(see Cruz in Minnesota). And now Betts is in LA so the right field position in the AL has gotten generally weaker especially since Judge gets hurt a lot.

[RagahRagah]

12 hours ago, The Hawk said:

Nah. Too much work to pull data off, format it and copy it on a board like this. I don't have to "prove"  anything. I know that Mazara had good power numbers over the years  2016-2019 for a right fielder. You prove he didn't. That is the way I roll:)

I love it when people make claims, can't back them up and then push their burden of proof fallacies while puffing their chests out so they can pretend they have done anything except lose an argument in embarrassing fashion. Not to mention claiming their time is being "wasted" yet they respond continuously regardless with empty paragraph after empty paragraph of meaningless rants. 

If you can't even pull data you claim you have access to, you need to stop asking other people to "prove" stuff.

Anyone smart sees right through this egotisistical shtick.

Edited October 26, 2020 by KonerkoFan1

[The Hawk]

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

1986 called and they want their stats back.

What makes you afraid to acknowledge BA, HRs, and RBIs as important statistics in measuring good hitting performance? It's fine to construct other statistics as a means to focus attention on areas that can be improved, or in evaluating performance, or in defensing a player. What I do not understand, though, is the apparent zeal on the part of some people to mock the established metrics like BA, HRs, RBIs Slugging %age, OBP, etc. And for anyone to think that a smart baseball man cannot used the established metrics to evaluate player performance and rate players, you are being pretty obtuse.

[bmags]

Why should we care so much about home runs?