What would you have done ...

[Dick Allen]

If you are a manager and your subordinates are doing bad things, you make it stop or report it up the flag pole. At the very least, you document the contact you made with the higher up. 

There is no way Hinch pushed this upstairs and they refused to do anything. If that were the case, he wouldn't have been fired, scapegoat needed or not.

[Chisoxfn]

Just now, Dick Allen said:

If you are a manager and your subordinates are doing bad things, you make it stop or report it up the flag pole. At the very least, you document the contact you made with the higher up. 

There is no way Hinch pushed this upstairs and they refused to do anything. If that were the case, he wouldn't have been fired, scapegoat needed or not.

This - buck stops with him as it relates to people on HIS staff.  

[Dick Allen]

Think about how sad our system is when doing the right thing and blowing the whistle on people doing bad things gets you a worse fate than just cheating.

[southsider2k5]

46 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Think about how sad our system is when doing the right thing and blowing the whistle on people doing bad things gets you a worse fate than just cheating.

Welcome to the USA, where a snitch is worse than the actual crime.

[bmags]

You know it's funny but the actual poll options were good but nobody discusses them. The winner was that he should have tried to stop it internally so at least it was clear it was being directed by Luhnow.

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

You know it's funny but the actual poll options were good but nobody discusses them. The winner was that he should have tried to stop it internally so at least it was clear it was being directed by Luhnow.

Well that leads to all sorts of other lines though. Luhnow overrules his manager and is clearly in charge of the clubhouse, ordering cheating that the manager objects to. Why on Earth would the manager stop there rather than taking additional actions? 

[skooch]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Why on Earth would the manager stop there rather than taking additional actions? 

Such as?

[bmags]

7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Well that leads to all sorts of other lines though. Luhnow overrules his manager and is clearly in charge of the clubhouse, ordering cheating that the manager objects to. Why on Earth would the manager stop there rather than taking additional actions? 

Of course Hinch wasn't in charge of the clubhouse.

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, bmags said:

Of course Hinch wasn't in charge of the clubhouse.

 

15 minutes ago, skooch said:

Such as?

I'll admit I can't find the article where he spells this out, but when Hinch was interviewing with the Astros, he was hesitant about taking that job because he was worried he wouldn't be in charge, that he'd constantly have management second guessing him on every call he made. He was pleasantly surprised and encouraged at the fact that management said they were hoping it would be a collaboration, but that he would be in charge and management would not be coming down to second guess a decision of he made one. 

This is literally the thing the manager should be in charge of, and as I've said before - if he isn't, if he's being ordered to violate MLB rules and he has no authority to control his own locker room, he shouldn't want the job. 

[bmags]

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

 

I'll admit I can't find the article where he spells this out, but when Hinch was interviewing with the Astros, he was hesitant about taking that job because he was worried he wouldn't be in charge, that he'd constantly have management second guessing him on every call he made. He was pleasantly surprised and encouraged at the fact that management said they were hoping it would be a collaboration, but that he would be in charge and management would not be coming down to second guess a decision of he made one. 

This is literally the thing the manager should be in charge of, and as I've said before - if he isn't, if he's being ordered to violate MLB rules and he has no authority to control his own locker room, he shouldn't want the job. 

Gametime tactics sure. They trusted his info from being around the players.

If he would have said he doesn't want players using rapsodo, he wouldn't be the manager.

[Balta1701]

Just now, bmags said:

Gametime tactics sure. They trusted his info from being around the players.

If he would have said he doesn't want players using rapsodo, he wouldn't be the manager.

Is rapsodo banned by the league?

[southsider2k5]

8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

 

I'll admit I can't find the article where he spells this out, but when Hinch was interviewing with the Astros, he was hesitant about taking that job because he was worried he wouldn't be in charge, that he'd constantly have management second guessing him on every call he made. He was pleasantly surprised and encouraged at the fact that management said they were hoping it would be a collaboration, but that he would be in charge and management would not be coming down to second guess a decision of he made one. 

This is literally the thing the manager should be in charge of, and as I've said before - if he isn't, if he's being ordered to violate MLB rules and he has no authority to control his own locker room, he shouldn't want the job. 

Pretty sure when you interview for a job, they don't come out and tell you the illegal things they are doing until at least AFTER they hire you.  He wouldn't have known this stuff until he walked into it.

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Pretty sure when you interview for a job, they don't come out and tell you the illegal things they are doing until at least AFTER they hire you.  He wouldn't have known this stuff until he walked into it.

If you really have a problem with it and you are told no you don’t get to make that decision, the right call is to “retire to spend more time with your family.” 

In reality, he was every bit a part of it.

[bmags]

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Is rapsodo banned by the league?

So your point is that Luhnow was happy when he was hired that he would have decision-making power over whether the astros players were allowed to do banned things, and if he would have told luhnow he wanted to stop doing a banned thing, he would have lost all credibility with his players and all hell would break loose. Solid argument, I'm going to tap out.

[Balta1701]

Just now, bmags said:

So your point is that Luhnow was happy when he was hired that he would have decision-making power over whether the astros players were allowed to do banned things, and if he would have told luhnow he wanted to stop doing a banned thing, he would have lost all credibility with his players and all hell would break loose. Solid argument, I'm going to tap out.

I assume the first one should have been Hinch? Because yes, if Hinch was ordered to break rules and refused and was overruled he should have left. Let Luhnow manage his own scheme then. 

[pcq]

Don't know if it was posted but Luhnow claims the player text messages show he was out of the loop.

[southsider2k5]

28 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If you really have a problem with it and you are told no you don’t get to make that decision, the right call is to “retire to spend more time with your family.” 

In reality, he was every bit a part of it.

At that point then he has to answer to the media as to why he left in the middle of a season, and with no actual family situation to feed the media they get to then speculate endlessly as to what happened for him to quit on a championship level team in the middle of the year.  He also gets to go into every interview from there on out (if he can get any) and either lie about why he quit to his new teams as well, or let each team he interviews with in on the secrets of the Astros, both of which makes him look awful in an interview situation. 

[Harold's Leg Lift]

41 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Is rapsodo banned by the league?

No but it should be. 

 

11 minutes ago, pcq said:

Don't know if it was posted but Luhnow claims the player text messages show he was out of the loop.

Plausible deniability.

[Balta1701]

15 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

At that point then he has to answer to the media as to why he left in the middle of a season, and with no actual family situation to feed the media they get to then speculate endlessly as to what happened for him to quit on a championship level team in the middle of the year.  He also gets to go into every interview from there on out (if he can get any) and either lie about why he quit to his new teams as well, or let each team he interviews with in on the secrets of the Astros, both of which makes him look awful in an interview situation. 

We are in a league where all the players went to other teams and said “hey the Astros are using cameras” and they were right to do so. Hell the White Sox caught them live doing so. So yeah, he better be ready to open up on any other rule breaking if he’s going to interview with my team.

[southsider2k5]

19 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

We are in a league where all the players went to other teams and said “hey the Astros are using cameras” and they were right to do so. Hell the White Sox caught them live doing so. So yeah, he better be ready to open up on any other rule breaking if he’s going to interview with my team.

How many baseball teams do you think would be willing to hire a guy who wasn't a team player and actively was undermining his last employer after quitting on them?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Impossible to say what I would do . Assuming I'm managing a team , that means I've spent my whole life basically as a player who then became a manager, I would've been around the game for many years and had many influences.Sure I can act like all the morally upstanding church goers that fight hyprocrisy and injustice with their every breathe and written word but I'm not going to do that.

[The Hawk]

I'd have acted on my own and stopped the players from doing that shit. And after I did it, I'd have told the GM what was going on and what I did. It was his responsibility to do that, not the Gm's not anyone else. There were a lot of powerful personalities in that locker room and I think that he got intimidated by them and their success.

[Quin]

So we know that Hinch destroyed the TV twice with a baseball bat, but did he ever tell Lunhow or was Lunhow "unaware" the whole thing was going on?

[skooch]

28 minutes ago, Quin said:

So we know that Hinch destroyed the TV twice with a baseball bat, but did he ever tell Lunhow or was Lunhow "unaware" the whole thing was going on?

Luhnow claims (naturally) that he was unaware of the whole thing. I have not heard anyone say that they told him and he claims that text messages at the time included things like "Don't let Jeff find out" or similar.  I am struggling with how an operation like this can happen without the GM being aware. If Luhnow was "unaware" then I would suspect it was due to willful ignorance.  If all of this did somehow happened without his knowledge then I wouldn't touch Hinch as a manager w/ a 100 ft pole as he is a completely spineless person. 

[Balta1701]

3 hours ago, skooch said:

Luhnow claims (naturally) that he was unaware of the whole thing. I have not heard anyone say that they told him and he claims that text messages at the time included things like "Don't let Jeff find out" or similar.  I am struggling with how an operation like this can happen without the GM being aware. If Luhnow was "unaware" then I would suspect it was due to willful ignorance.  If all of this did somehow happened without his knowledge then I wouldn't touch Hinch as a manager w/ a 100 ft pole as he is a completely spineless person. 

The answer is they're all just lying and trying to make themselves look better so they can get new jobs.