Trevor Bauer Thread (Mazara Free Zone)

[BamaDoc]

A logical approach to Bauer.  A no at any point stops the process.

1) Management meets with Ownership to get budget.  Is there money to spend?

2) Management prioritizes spending.  Do you want to spend on free agent starting pitching vs other needs(there won't be unlimited money)?

3) I do a deep background check on Bauer the teammate.  I talk to coaches, former teammates, clubhouse guys, cabbies, waiters, you get it.  I worry about his fit in our clubhouse.  We have seen bad fits before(Swisher,La Roche drama, Eaton rumors etc).  Bauer seems to have a mercenary type image.  How would that play in our clubhouse?  What do you think he would counsel young players about early extensions(Giolitto)?  Do you in management want him as a teammate?

4) Because he is polarizing, I would convene the same leadership group of players who remain with the team that we heard about at the trade deadline,  I would present what info I gained from #3 and ask,  Do you players want him as a teammate?

5) Management meets with his representation/him.  Is there mutual interest?  Do we fit his criteria?  He must meet with pitching coaches and each agree they can work together.  Explain our culture and how he would be expected to fit within it.  Would this work?

#4 and #5 may switch or be semi simultaneous.  We appear to have something special building and don't want to screw it up.  Perhaps after 2021 makes more sense when you would have a better idea of our pitching and he wouldn't have any draft compensation attached.

6) Only at this point do I really get to contract terms.  Any question at the end of 1-5 that gets a no stops the process.

[Dam8610]

I don't think any team would commit to pitching him every fourth day. Because of that, I'd imagine the White Sox would be among his top choices based on his other criteria. Plus, if he's salty with the Indians, there's the added bonus of sticking it to them.

[SoxAce]

2 minutes ago, Tony said:

 

Hahahahaha. Come on through Trevor. We have a nice seat waiting for ya in our rotation. 

[BamaDoc]

Ozzie had greatest line on AJ.  Paraphrase quote “ If he was on other team you hated him. If he was on your team, you hated him less!”

[South Side Hit Men]

The Sox have the same chance of acquiring Kershaw or Cole as they have Bauer this off-season. 1-4 in the playoffs. Good pitcher, but not worth the $ or grief.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

9 hours ago, pcq said:

He may be a win-first guy but not a team-first guy. MAGMA

If he's not a team 1st guy why is he offering to pitch with 3 days rest when the Reds need the wins in order to make the playoffs ?

[ptatc]

34 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

If he's not a team 1st guy why is he offering to pitch with 3 days rest when the Reds need the wins in order to make the playoffs ?

Because he thinks he should do it all year long anyway. So it's not really any different for him.

[joejoesox]

trever bauer indeed does know a shitload of information about pitching.  unfortunately there wasnt much room left for knowing how to be a tolerable human being

[gusguyman]

I'm shocked how much pearl clutching there is about the "pitch every 4th day" thing.

If you have 4 other pitchers, they still pitch on 4 days rest 3/4 of the time, and 5 days rest otherwise. That already happens all the time due to injuries, off days, rotation realignment, etc. Hell, we just skip a 5th starter all the time. 

It actually gives you more flexibility to skip a guy or find some extra rest for a guy who is pitching through discomfort. There are reasons to be dubious about him pitching every 4th day, but the effect on the rotation is not one of them.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

15 hours ago, ptatc said:

Because he thinks he should do it all year long anyway. So it's not really any different for him.

Technically 3 days rest is different from 4 days rest, just as 4 days rest is different from 5 . It isnt easy to do going from one to the other when you are used to doing it one way and all your prep work is geared for that.

I'm actually surprised at your answer basically equating 3 days rest as the same as 4.

Not only that but has he been going on 4 days rest all year or 5 like most pitchers ? There's a big difference in what he THINKS he should be doing and what he is actually doing. Seems to me he is making a personal sacrifice to help the team risking his own health.

Edited September 21, 2020 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

24 minutes ago, gusguyman said:

I'm shocked how much pearl clutching there is about the "pitch every 4th day" thing.

If you have 4 other pitchers, they still pitch on 4 days rest 3/4 of the time, and 5 days rest otherwise. That already happens all the time due to injuries, off days, rotation realignment, etc. Hell, we just skip a 5th starter all the time. 

It actually gives you more flexibility to skip a guy or find some extra rest for a guy who is pitching through discomfort. There are reasons to be dubious about him pitching every 4th day, but the effect on the rotation is not one of them.

I will agree with the caveat that I'd have to look into the pitching rotations of all teams to see if what you said about pitching on 4 days rest 75% of the time is true. If theres some way for you to prove that I think there would be less as you colorfully described, " pearl clutching ."

[SonofaRoache]

43 minutes ago, gusguyman said:

I'm shocked how much pearl clutching there is about the "pitch every 4th day" thing.

If you have 4 other pitchers, they still pitch on 4 days rest 3/4 of the time, and 5 days rest otherwise. That already happens all the time due to injuries, off days, rotation realignment, etc. Hell, we just skip a 5th starter all the time. 

It actually gives you more flexibility to skip a guy or find some extra rest for a guy who is pitching through discomfort. There are reasons to be dubious about him pitching every 4th day, but the effect on the rotation is not one of them.

I'm not saying you are wrong but here are two points for us to consider. 

1. Do you think Gio and DK would be okay with a FA pitcher coming in calling these types of shots when they helped us get to the post season? 

2. Do you think other pitchers aren't going to be upset at losing opportunities, even if minimal, to play? Games played and stats are important and directly impact your salary. 

 

[gusguyman]

32 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Technically 3 days rest is different from 4 days rest, just as 4 days rest is different from 5 . It isnt easy to do going from one to the other when you are used to doing it one way and all your prep work is geared for that.

I'm actually surprised at your answer basically equating 3 days rest as the same as 4.

Not only that but has he been going on 4 days rest all year or 5 like most pitchers ? There's a big difference in what he THINKS he should be doing and what he is actually doing. Seems to me he is making a personal sacrifice to help the team risking his own health.

Like I said in my post, there are plenty of reasons to think he can't/shouldn't do this. I have no idea if he is right about being able to manage this schedule, so I am not advocating for or against it. I just didn't think the effect on other SPs was anything worth getting worried about.

 

22 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I will agree with the caveat that I'd have to look into the pitching rotations of all teams to see if what you said about pitching on 4 days rest 75% of the time is true. If theres some way for you to prove that I think there would be less as you colorfully described, " pearl clutching ."

The rotation would go:

B 2 3 4 B 5 2 3 B 4 5 2 B 3 4 5 | B 2 3 4 B 5 2 3 B 4 5 2 B 3 4 5

Where B is Bauer, and 2/3/4/5 are your other pitchers. I put a bar where the pattern repeats.

You can count and see, but also the pattern is that the pitcher who throws the day before Bauer is going to have 1 extra day of rest, and with 4 other pitchers that rotates each time so 75% of starts are still normal.

Off days could further impact this, but you could just shift everyone back a day (like normal) or use this to actually skip the 5th starter even more often (especially useful if we are trying to keep young pitchers on limited innings).

Again, not advocating that this is actually something he should do, but the impact on the rest of the rotation is not really problematic. 

[southsider2k5]

36 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

I'm not saying you are wrong but here are two points for us to consider. 

1. Do you think Gio and DK would be okay with a FA pitcher coming in calling these types of shots when they helped us get to the post season? 

2. Do you think other pitchers aren't going to be upset at losing opportunities, even if minimal, to play? Games played and stats are important and directly impact your salary. 

 

If they put themselves ahead of what's best for the team, they don't belong on this team.

[Quin]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If they put themselves ahead of what's best for the team, they don't belong on this team.

Conversely, that's what Bauer would be doing.

[SonofaRoache]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If they put themselves ahead of what's best for the team, they don't belong on this team.

Well I disagree. Them being mad at signing Bauer would be selfish. Not being mad at losing starts because he wants to pitch more. Especially since Bauer hasn't done anything for this organization yet. 

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Quin said:

Conversely, that's what Bauer would be doing.

That depends on if Bauer really can pitch every four days.  

[SonofaRoache]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

That depends on if Bauer really can pitch every four days.  

Exactly. He doesn't know and neither does anyone else. Not to mention taking away starts from them impacts their earnings and legacy credentials, for again, something we don't even know will work. 

[southsider2k5]

Just now, SonofaRoache said:

Well I disagree. Them being mad at signing Bauer would be selfish. Not being mad at losing starts because he wants to pitch more. Especially since Bauer hasn't done anything for this organization yet. 

I guess that depends on if you are more worried about yourself or your team.  If Bauer can pitch like himself every four days, it would be better for whatever team signs him, as it would eliminate a lot of starts, but most importantly it would eliminate starts from starters worse than him the vast majority of his starts.  The only one who really might have a beef is Giolito.  If the team doesn't think this, then they either should be sure he is OK with going every 5 days when the sign him, or not sign him.

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said:

Exactly. He doesn't know and neither does anyone else. Not to mention taking away starts from them impacts their earnings and legacy credentials, for again, something we don't even know will work. 

If you look at the work someone did above, they don't really lose that many starts. And with off days and such, you can skip the 5th starter whenever for more rest.

[mqr]

2 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

If you look at the work someone did above, they don't really lose that many starts. And with off days and such, you can skip the 5th starter whenever for more rest.

Why should Lucas Giolito be forced to pitch on extra rest because Trevor Bauer is a weirdo?

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, mqr said:

Why should Lucas Giolito be forced to pitch on extra rest because Trevor Bauer is a weirdo?

Because the odds are that he would be better than he starter he would be replacing somewhere around 80% of the time, if you want to call Giolito and equal or better.

[Quin]

A hypothetical I could see this working is where the fifth starter is both Kopech and Crochet serving as openers and getting time in the BP, until they each hit 110 IP next year.

In that scenario, you're also picking between Cease/Dunning and shipping the other one off.

[Dick Allen]

He's already coming off of his idea to never seek more than a one year deal. He will be fine in a 5 man rotation. Let him pitch every 4th when the season is on the line and it matters, and tell him if Giolito or Keuchel or whoever is throwing well, and they were pitching on day 4, he will go on day 5. The guy is strange, a bit of a loose cannon, but can pitch. I doubt JR goes for him, but you never know.

[Bob Sacamano]

6 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

He's already coming off of his idea to never seek more than a one year deal. He will be fine in a 5 man rotation. Let him pitch every 4th when the season is on the line and it matters, and tell him if Giolito or Keuchel or whoever is throwing well, and they were pitching on day 4, he will go on day 5. The guy is strange, a bit of a loose cannon, but can pitch. I doubt JR goes for him, but you never know.

I came here just now to say I don't actually believe a team will let him do this pitch every 4 days idea. Just throw a bunch of money at him for 1 year.