2020 Election Thoughts

[Chisoxfn]

34 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I've seen the comments by Joe myself, have you? Fox played the dementia card way before Trump grabbed it. I'm praying Joe is OK cause I'm one of those kooks not discounting a theory that he'll be stepping down 3-6 months into his tenure as president and Kamala will have 7.5 years of presidency. UNLESS Pelosi and Co. want AOC who will be old nuff to run in 2024. That's my take. So I do think for myself not just Trump campaign.

Ok - you can say there is a theory that Kamala gets 3.5 years of presidency, but 4 years from now she'll be up for re-election, etc.  Similarly, I just assume Biden is a 1 term president but that isn't an issue in my mind cause we can vote for someone else in 4 years.   

[mqr]

1 hour ago, Chisoxfn said:

Ok - you can say there is a theory that Kamala gets 3.5 years of presidency, but 4 years from now she'll be up for re-election, etc.  Similarly, I just assume Biden is a 1 term president but that isn't an issue in my mind cause we can vote for someone else in 4 years.   

It's not a bug it's a feature

[StrangeSox]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

But this isn't true, at all. 

1. The electoral college was created by the founding fathers primarily because they believed most voters couldn't receive enough information about the candidates that were running for elections. This 100% isn't the case in 2020. 

2. Except in Maine, the electoral college is based on a winner take all system. That was a huge change from the original system created by our founding fathers, so the argument has changed. 

The electoral college is used to vote for the President of the United States. Not some states. The entire country. 

Additionally, and to me most importantly, you said "the founding fathers int heir wisdom saw to it that all states have a voice in who leads the country." That could not be more untrue under the electoral college. There are what, 8-10 swing states in the country? So that means 40+ states have populations that already feel like their vote doesn't matter, that their vote has already been cast because of the state they live in. 

I simply don't understand how you can argue against a popular vote at this point, aside from just wanting to keep control of the red states that you know are built into your vote count. Everyone has access to as much information as possible. Let the majority of the people in this country elect who they think should be President. I don't know how that can be considered a bad thing. 

You are forgetting Nebraska!

 

 

NE-2 (Omaha, mainly) is likely to go Biden, and in some scenarios, can be the difference between a 269-269 tie or a 270 EV Biden win. IF you take3 the 2016 map but give Biden AZ, WI, and MI, he'll have 269. If he can flip NE-2 (or the Maine one), that'd put him over the top.

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by StrangeSox

[StrangeSox]

AOC is more likely to have her district drawn out of existence by establishment Democrats after the next census takes a seat from NY than to be backed for President by Pelosi et. al.

[TaylorStSox]

2 hours ago, Dallas Kong said:

I don’t want any of those selfish things and I think the purpose of the federal government and this nation as a whole is altogether different, so get outta here with your belief that I’m getting screwed.

You should take an open minded look at universal healthcare. The US pays a much higher percentage of it's GDP than any of it's western allies with socialized medicine. Universal healthcare is objectively cheaper.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

7 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

You should take an open minded look at universal healthcare. The US pays a much higher percentage of it's GDP than any of it's western allies with socialized medicine. Universal healthcare is objectively cheaper.

I've spent quite sometime in Colombia over the last five years; Colombia has big time poverty issues still, despite a growing economy.

Colombia's health care is cheaper and BETTER than the USA's. It is cheaper for me to fly to Colombia, have a procedure done (dental or medical) and fly back than it is to have the same service here... and the quality of care is no different. Arguably, Colombia's QOC is better because there is no desire or reason to force you out early. Having witnessed that health care system in person, it truly opened my eyes even moreso to how broken our profit-driven, pro-pharma, approach is. We (TAX PAYERS) spend millions and millions of dollars on assisting big pharma develop drugs, and then they sell them back to us at inordinate cost levels while the rest of the world pays 1/10 the price and they didn't spend millions of their tax dollars developing the treatment. It is absolutely baffling.

Edited November 3, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[TaylorStSox]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

My wife was born in Colombia; Colombia has big time poverty issues still, despite a growing economy.

Colombia's health care is cheaper and BETTER than the USA's. It is cheaper for me to fly to Colombia, have a procedure done (dental or medical) and fly back than it is to have the same service here... and the quality of care is no different. Arguably, Colombia's QOC is better because there is no desire or reason to force you out early. Having witnessed that health care system in person, it truly opened my eyes even moreso to how broken our profit-driven, pro-pharma, approach is. We (TAX PAYERS) spend millions and millions of dollars on assisting big pharma develop drugs, and then they sell them back to us at inordinate cost levels while the rest of the world pays 1/10 the price and they didn't spend millions of their tax dollars developing the treatment.

Our relationship with healthcare is incredibly archaic. I think most people simply don't know enough about it, and assume our standards are higher than the rest of the world. 

[mqr]

1 hour ago, TaylorStSox said:

You should take an open minded look at universal healthcare. The US pays a much higher percentage of it's GDP than any of it's western allies with socialized medicine. Universal healthcare is objectively cheaper.

We should really come up with a rebrand. Freedom medicine?

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Our relationship with healthcare is incredibly archaic. I think most people simply don't know enough about it, and assume our standards are higher than the rest of the world. 

I think this is the big issue to me. People think we are offering some superior product;

I can't tell you how many times I've heard "that's why the rich from around the world come here for care."

The argument that if we don't pay our doctors so much they will leave for other countries.

It's all complete nonsense. Colombian hospitals are clean, safe, and have the same tech and care that we have here. Their doctors and system are driven by care for patients, and not profits though, which is really the major difference.

Their government doesn't allow drug companies to exploit those in desperate need.

Edited November 3, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Quin]

7 minutes ago, mqr said:

We should really come up with a rebrand. Freedom medicine?

Limited Time Only Super Sale Medicine

[Iwritecode]

pumpkin spice medicine

[Danny Dravot]

20 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

You should take an open minded look at universal healthcare. The US pays a much higher percentage of it's GDP than any of it's western allies with socialized medicine. Universal healthcare is objectively cheaper.

I’m open to a public option, but it’s not something I think a ton about.

I do fear excessive government control of any aspect of our lives. Two names that come to mind in healthcare are Charlie Gard and Alice Evans. Both were British infants who had rare and lethal diseases. Parents wanted to take them elsewhere for experimental treatments but the Brit hospitals took them to court to have their ability to move their own children denied. The hospitals won and both children passed away.

That comes off as incredibly unjust to me, but in a socialized system more groups would get a say than just those patient and his/her loved one. If M4A was enacted here, would it lead to cases of this sort?

Either way, I want what’s best for America. If universal healthcare would save Americans money and produce a better result while respecting people’s freedom of choice, I’d be open to it.

[poppysox]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

But this isn't true, at all. 

1. The electoral college was created by the founding fathers primarily because they believed most voters couldn't receive enough information about the candidates that were running for elections. This 100% isn't the case in 2020. 

2. Except in Maine, the electoral college is based on a winner take all system. That was a huge change from the original system created by our founding fathers, so the argument has changed. 

The electoral college is used to vote for the President of the United States. Not some states. The entire country. 

Additionally, and to me most importantly, you said "the founding fathers int heir wisdom saw to it that all states have a voice in who leads the country." That could not be more untrue under the electoral college. There are what, 8-10 swing states in the country? So that means 40+ states have populations that already feel like their vote doesn't matter, that their vote has already been cast because of the state they live in. 

I simply don't understand how you can argue against a popular vote at this point, aside from just wanting to keep control of the red states that you know are built into your vote count. Everyone has access to as much information as possible. Let the majority of the people in this country elect who they think should be President. I don't know how that can be considered a bad thing. 

This is always pointless to argue politics.  You want the highly populated states to more or less pick the President.  I on the other hand look at how Democrats have mismanaged virtually every large city they run into near Bankruptcy.  Nancy's district in SanFrancisco has crap in the streets and you what small-town America to follow suit.  No thanks!  For the record...I voted for Carter (big mistake)  and have no bone to pick with JFK or LBJ.  I wasn't wild about Bill Clinton or Barack Obama but I managed to not riot in the street.  Mayor Richard J. Daley was an excellent mayor IMO.  When your party is represented by Nancy Pelosi, AOC, Bernie Sander, Elizabeth Warren, Al Sharpton, and Chuck Schumer... you will not convert many conservatives to your cause.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

7 minutes ago, Danny Dravot said:

I’m open to a public option, but it’s not something I think a ton about.

I do fear excessive government control of any aspect of our lives. Two names that come to mind in healthcare are Charlie Gard and Alice Evans. Both were British infants who had rare and lethal diseases. Parents wanted to take them elsewhere for experimental treatments but the Brit hospitals took them to court to have their ability to move their own children denied. The hospitals won and both children passed away.

That comes off as incredibly unjust to me, but in a socialized system more groups would get a say than just those patient and his/her loved one. If M4A was enacted here, would it lead to cases of this sort?

Either way, I want what’s best for America. If universal healthcare would save Americans money and produce a better result while respecting people’s freedom of choice, I’d be open to it.

Read Chapter 2 of this book: https://www.amazon.com/Climate-Crisis-Global-Green-Deal/dp/178873985X

I believe the free-preview covers thru the end of chapter two. If not, I'm happy to share the entire text with you.

It goes over why you have been brainwashed to feel this way through a massive misinformation campaign. I don't blame you as you are merely the victim of a billion dollar campaign to deceive you. They touch on health care and how the disinformation campaign there relates to the environmental issues that we are dealing with as well. Orthodox capitalism is deadly.

Edited November 3, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Kyyle23]

6 minutes ago, poppysox said:

This is always pointless to argue politics.  You want the highly populated states to more or less pick the President.  I on the other hand look at how Democrats have mismanaged virtually every large city they run into near Bankruptcy.  Nancy's district in SanFrancisco has crap in the streets and you what small-town America to follow suit.  No thanks!  For the record...I voted for Carter (big mistake)  and have no bone to pick with JFK or LBJ.  I wasn't wild about Bill Clinton or Barack Obama but I managed to not riot in the street.  Mayor Richard J. Daley was an excellent mayor IMO.  When your party is represented by Nancy Pelosi, AOC, Bernie Sander, Elizabeth Warren, Al Sharpton, and Chuck Schumer... you will not convert many conservatives to your cause.

Honestly if you believe it is pointless to argue politics than maybe you shouldn't come into this thread and troll it disingenuously.  Just a thought 

[whitesoxfan99]

6 minutes ago, poppysox said:

This is always pointless to argue politics.  You want the highly populated states to more or less pick the President.  I on the other hand look at how Democrats have mismanaged virtually every large city they run into near Bankruptcy.  Nancy's district in SanFrancisco has crap in the streets and you what small-town America to follow suit.  No thanks!  For the record...I voted for Carter (big mistake)  and have no bone to pick with JFK or LBJ.  I wasn't wild about Bill Clinton or Barack Obama but I managed to not riot in the street.  Mayor Richard J. Daley was an excellent mayor IMO.  When your party is represented by Nancy Pelosi, AOC, Bernie Sander, Elizabeth Warren, Al Sharpton, and Chuck Schumer... you will not convert many conservatives to your cause.

More populated states wouldn’t pick the President. Every vote would count evenly.  Republicans in California would get a voice and Democrats in Tennessee would get a voice.  And I’d take Warren, Sanders and Schumer all day long over the Q anon clowns taking over the GOP

[Danny Dravot]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Read Chapter 2 of this book: https://www.amazon.com/Climate-Crisis-Global-Green-Deal/dp/178873985X

I believe the free-preview covers thru the end of chapter two. If not, I'm happy to share the entire text with you.

It goes over why you have been brainwashed to feel this way through a massive misinformation campaign. I don't blame you as you are merely the victim of a billion dollar campaign to deceive you. They touch on health care and how the disinformation campaign there relates to the environmental issues that we are dealing with as well.

I said I’m open to an idea but had a particular fear about it, which isn’t contrived (the only people who should have had a say in the treatment of their child were denied that say) and you tell me to read a Noam Chomsky excerpt on how I’m a brainwashing victim? Uh, great argument buddy.

[knightni]

1 minute ago, poppysox said:

When your party is represented by Nancy Pelosi, AOC, Bernie Sander, Elizabeth Warren, Al Sharpton, and Chuck Schumer... you will not convert many conservatives to your cause.

When your party is represented by Donald Trump, Mike Pence, Mitch McConnell, Lindsay Graham, Rush Limbaugh and Rand Paul...you will not convert many liberals to your cause.

[Quin]

9 minutes ago, poppysox said:

This is always pointless to argue politics.  You want the highly populated states to more or less pick the President.  I on the other hand look at how Democrats have mismanaged virtually every large city they run into near Bankruptcy.  Nancy's district in SanFrancisco has crap in the streets and you what small-town America to follow suit.  No thanks!  For the record...I voted for Carter (big mistake)  and have no bone to pick with JFK or LBJ.  I wasn't wild about Bill Clinton or Barack Obama but I managed to not riot in the street.  Mayor Richard J. Daley was an excellent mayor IMO.  When your party is represented by Nancy Pelosi, AOC, Bernie Sander, Elizabeth Warren, Al Sharpton, and Chuck Schumer... you will not convert many conservatives to your cause.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

4 minutes ago, Danny Dravot said:

I said I’m open to an idea but had a particular fear about it, which isn’t contrived (the only people who should have had a say in the treatment of their child were denied that say) and you tell me to read a Noam Chomsky excerpt on how I’m a brainwashing victim? Uh, great argument buddy.

People in the US are denied treatment for their children, or bankrupted by it, but that doesn't scare you. In my twenties, I went 8 years without a doctors visit because I hadn't broken into my industry yet and my health care was complete trash. Our health care system deters people from using it. That is incredibly broken.

Additionally, what scares you about Chomsky? Chomsky is more intelligent than the people you listen to on these topics. You can disagree with his politics, but it's nearly impossible to argue his intelligence and intellectual integrity.

Chomsky literally discusses how big corporation and insurance companies have released propaganda to stow uncertainty within the population pertaining to universal health care. For fifty years this propoganda has degraded away at workers right and health care; in addition to climate change.

Edited November 3, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Texsox]

Has anyone heard of cities visibly preparing for looting and protests tonight? 

[Dick Allen]

26 minutes ago, poppysox said:

This is always pointless to argue politics.  You want the highly populated states to more or less pick the President.  I on the other hand look at how Democrats have mismanaged virtually every large city they run into near Bankruptcy.  Nancy's district in SanFrancisco has crap in the streets and you what small-town America to follow suit.  No thanks!  For the record...I voted for Carter (big mistake)  and have no bone to pick with JFK or LBJ.  I wasn't wild about Bill Clinton or Barack Obama but I managed to not riot in the street.  Mayor Richard J. Daley was an excellent mayor IMO.  When your party is represented by Nancy Pelosi, AOC, Bernie Sander, Elizabeth Warren, Al Sharpton, and Chuck Schumer... you will not convert many conservatives to your cause.

I think if Federal funds available was the same in San Francisco or NY or Chicago per capita as they are in ND or SD or KY, you would see a very different result.

But with this particular election, it appears there are tons of conservatives that have converted to the cause. Trump might be happy to know he has probably set records on public deserters of the republican party.

At some point, common sense has to take over and enough has to be enough. I vote democrat most often. I have voted for a few republicans, and if this election was a normal republican vs. Bernie, I would have voted for the republican. I loved Bill Clinton. Thought he was the best president of my lifetime, but when he got caught, I said he had to go.  And getting BJs didn't kill 230k and counting people.

Edited November 3, 2020 by Dick Allen

[Jose Abreu]

I knew Pelosi was hated by Republicans but I didn't know she was believed to be as far left as AOC until Greg and Poppy started asserting so. Where do people even get that idea? Do they see a female Democrat and just assume she's a progressive? 

[poppysox]

9 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Honestly if you believe it is pointless to argue politics than maybe you shouldn't come into this thread and troll it disingenuously.  Just a thought 

Yeah...and you wonder why there is a silent majority.  

[mqr]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

Has anyone heard of cities visibly preparing for looting and protests tonight? 

I haven't heard of, like, government action outside of the barricades around the WH. But there are definitely private business taking precautions.