2020 Election Thoughts

[The Beast]

Good reading on what McConnell needs to consider for the stimulus bill and the compromises Pelosi and the Congress must make:

https://thebulwark.com/the-pandemic-is-now-mcconnells-problem-too/

[Danny Dravot]

4 minutes ago, The Beast said:

If it helps, Warnock is only going to be the senator for two years until the 2022 election. I think he’s got a better shot at winning than Ossoff does, even though I am a bit concerned by those statements. I’d have to dig in a bit more to see if there is context though to see how alarming they actually are.

Honestly, it's a relatively standard Christian sentiment. "No other gods before me" doesn't just mean "don't go worshipping Baal". It means not to fall in love with anything in your life that distracts from the one, true God, be it money, America, your wife, whatever. So I get that he would say and believe these things and I don't begrudge him that at all.

But he's not trying to be a pastor anymore. His beliefs will potentially impact the direction of the nation, including the military. I am opposed to Mike Huckabee announcing that gay marriage should be banned because it says so in the Bible, and I'm opposed to Warnock implying that you can either be a Christian or a soldier but not both. From what I've read, he has only attempted to clarify what he meant (which I personally understood) and has not stated, "I held those views ten years ago in a private position where they were appropriate, and will absolutely forsake them in a governmental position where they are not."

[Dick Allen]

Rudy is attempting to overturn the election in 7 states. Why are only 7 states affected? If the whole system is corrupt, how were they able to get it right in the other states?

Seriously, this is pretty deranged stuff, and if the GOP won't stand up now, they never will. 

[Dick Allen]

2 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

It's about permanent minoritarian rule, not Trump specifically.

I get that, but still this is Donald Trump. He is the equivalent of a scam email telling you to change your Amazon password with the subject being scam email and this is a scam being all over it with with a link telling you it's a scam, and every word misspelled and every sentence looking like it was written by Ozzie Guillen.

I think this will fail. I hope this will fail, but it opens the door. The next person that tries this is going to be a little more likeable than Trump. Someone who can show empathy, Someone who comes off as bright, and doesn't act like an 8 year old,. Then democracy dies.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Dick Allen

[Danny Dravot]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I get that, but still this is Donald Trump. He is the equivalent of a scam email telling you to change your Amazon password with the subject being scam email and this is a scam being all over it with every word misspelled and every sentence looking like it was written by Ozzie Guillen.

I think this will fail. I hope this will fail, but it opens the door. The next person that tries this is going to be a little more likeable than Trump. Someone who can show empathy, Someone who comes off as bright, and doesn't act like an 8 year old,. Then democracy dies.

Part of being a little more likable than Trump is that they will not try this.

[southsider2k5]

51 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

Seems kinda odd that there's this open coup, open sedition playing out to subvert American democracy, and the Democrats in the House can't seem to be bothered to start holding emergency hearings or anything.

Yeah, its rich coming from the Law and Order party.

[southsider2k5]

37 minutes ago, hogan873 said:

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Trump refuses to go to the inauguration and may have to be forcefully removed from the White House.  And I also wouldn't be surprised if he just disappears sometime before January 20th and refuses to say anything.  Regardless, I don't think this will be like any other transfer of power.  As Trump would say, "unlike anything the world has never seen before."

He's the type of dude who will try to take the oath.

[southsider2k5]

27 minutes ago, Danny Dravot said:

He's not going to be forcefully removed from the White House. There'd be no potential gain because it would be easily remedied by a couple of Secret Service agents and it would be more embarrassing than anything else he's ever done. It'd be a terrible look for tough guy Trump to get easily dragged out of the WH by actual tough guys. Worse, he'd risk getting hurt and/or arrested. And it wouldn't in a million years work.

Do I think he'll go down to Mar-a-Lago for Christmas and never return to DC? Abso-fucking-lutely.

When has he EVER cared about being publicly embarrassing?  This whole process is a coup that he should be ashamed of.  The man has no decency or standards if he stands in the way of his personal gain.

[Dick Allen]

If his coup attempt fails, he goes to Mar A Lago for Christmas. He just won't come back. I think the idea he would have to be evicted was real. But I think we are beyond that now. Hillary Clinton had a net 9,5 million more votes than Trump, +2.5 million to -7.0 million , and the same electoral count and conceded at 2:30 AM the day after the election.  The fact that the GOP lets Trump, and Rudy, a guy who got played by Borat, play these games is disgusting.  It will have repercussions for decades. Why should anyone ever accept vote results from now on? 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Dick Allen

[Danny Dravot]

8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

When has he EVER cared about being publicly embarrassing?  This whole process is a coup that he should be ashamed of.  The man has no decency or standards if he stands in the way of his personal gain.

Eh. Bloviating on Twitter about electoral fraud lets him look tough in the eyes of his supporters and supports this mythology that he's a fighter. He doesn't care about processes and institutions because he's going to support them, no matter what! It is embarrassing but they eat that shit up. Same with mocking the disabled reporter and the name calling and "lock her up" chants, etc.

Getting dragged out of the White House in handcuffs will qualify as embarrassing in their eyes too, though. That's the difference.

[NWINFan]

 Michigan legislators are supposed to come to the White House to strategize with Trump. How can a state legislature even think of picking slate of electors to cast their ballot for a losing candidate is beyond me. Even if, in the end, this doesn't make any difference, the Congress should not accept a slate of electors for a candidate who lost a state by over 100,00 votes.  This gets worse by the day and by the minute. Trump is beyond being a disgrace.

[StrangeSox]

35 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Yeah, its rich coming from the Law and Order party.

"[Law and order] consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."

[StrangeSox]

58 minutes ago, The Beast said:

Good reading on what McConnell needs to consider for the stimulus bill and the compromises Pelosi and the Congress must make:

https://thebulwark.com/the-pandemic-is-now-mcconnells-problem-too/

The Senate has adjourned, but not before confirming a 33 year old lawyer with little practical experience to a lifetime federal judicial spot.

 

McConnell will be happy to sabotage any economic relief, same as he did during the previous recession.

[greg775]

6 hours ago, NWINFan said:

I guess what you're saying, Greg, is that Biden will be a great president if he acts like a Republican. Jim Jordan? A total asshole.

I love Jordan, may be my favorite politician aside from Cruz right now. I like their style so to speak.

[Dick Allen]

Just now, greg775 said:

I love Jordan, may be my favorite politician aside from Cruz right now. I like their style so to speak.

Jordan is another disgusting human being. Ask abused Ohio State wrestlers. He hid they were being sexually abused. Glad you like that style. Lyin' Ted Cruz with the JFK murdering father and the ugly wife, now kisses the toes of the person that made those claims. He also called a colleague an ass for asking senators wear masks, and one actually gets the Covid the next day. Another guy to admire. 

[greg775]

4 hours ago, Soxbadger said:

Why do you think people in DC and Puerto Rico dont deserve a right to vote and representation if they want one?

Why should they be second class citizens?

Besides for the obvious answer that only Republicans deserve rights in America now. 

Maybe one day you will realize the people you support are the radicals who are trying to destroy America.

I don't think we should add 2 states just for the gain of the Democrat party. If I see other reasons, which I have seen none, I may change my mind. All I see it as a tactic to get more automatic electoral votes each presidential election. There are a few ways the Democratic party can assure winning for the rest of time, one way is to garner a few more automatic batches of electoral votes and members of Senate and House.

[Dick Allen]

3 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I don't think we should add 2 states just for the gain of the Democrat party. If I see other reasons, which I have seen none, I may change my mind. All I see it as a tactic to get more automatic electoral votes each presidential election. There are a few ways the Democratic party can assure winning for the rest of time, one way is to garner a few more automatic batches of electoral votes and members of Senate and House.

The best way is to get rid of the electoral college. The second best way is to give states like CA a few more senators because they have more population than states like North Dakota. The next best way is to get rid of gerrymandering.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Dick Allen

[Danny Dravot]

4 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I don't think we should add 2 states just for the gain of the Democrat party. If I see other reasons, which I have seen none, I may change my mind. All I see it as a tactic to get more automatic electoral votes each presidential election. There are a few ways the Democratic party can assure winning for the rest of time, one way is to garner a few more automatic batches of electoral votes and members of Senate and House.

Greg, why do you think Puerto Rico would be guaranteed Democrat electoral votes? PR politics are a little strange, but as best I can tell, the current government belongs to the New Progressive Party which advocates statehood. Members are then split between those who affiliate with Democrats and those who affiliate with Republicans. The governor and resident commissioner to Congress are both on the Republican affiliated side.

I'm really tired of this idea that brown people are a threat because they'll vote for Democrats. If the Republican party wants to survive (and I want it to survive), the key is basing itself on ideology that appeals to everyone regardless of demographic shifts. I want an unconditionally patriotic party that supports reasonably limited governmen and promotes liberal democracy around the world with military force as a last albeit unhesitant resort.

There is NOTHING in what I just said that prevents "brown people" from supporting such a party. However, if the GOP insists on railing against even the possibility of demographic change, it will probably die off in popularity and power and shift the Overton window to the left. Seriously, think about it.

[Soxbadger]

5 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I don't think we should add 2 states just for the gain of the Democrat party. If I see other reasons, which I have seen none, I may change my mind. All I see it as a tactic to get more automatic electoral votes each presidential election. There are a few ways the Democratic party can assure winning for the rest of time, one way is to garner a few more automatic batches of electoral votes and members of Senate and House.

This is exactly what is wrong with America. You dont care at all about the people of PR or DC having a voice because they may not agree with you. Instead of wanting everyone in the US to have an equal voice, you only want to recognize them if they agree with you.

If PR and DC were going to vote Republican they all of a sudden become worthy of being states?

The answer should be that no matter whether they are Republican, Democrat, Independent or whatever they should have an equal voice in our society. 

It all makes sense now, you simply dont care about anyone who doesnt agree with you. Who cares about the people in PR, they possibly wont vote like me so they dont get a say. 

The saddest part is that the Republican party has become so radically anti-American, their policies so horrific, that they dont even believe that they can convince people to vote for them.

 

 

[Danny Dravot]

8 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The best way is to get rid of the electoral college. The second best way is to give states like CA a few more senators because they have more population than states like North Dakota. The next best way is to get rid of gerrymandering.

We are a union of states. What would motivate North Dakota to remain in a union where its voice is subordinate to California's? The House represents population differences but the Senate provides equal voices to all states. This is a basic foundational idea of this country and cannot simply be tossed out.

I agree on gerrymandering, although it is a sin of both parties, not just one. They'll have to be unequally sized, but shape should be mostly uniform and consistent.

[Dick Allen]

This entire thing is to extend fundraising for the grift.

[southsider2k5]

 

[Dick Allen]

9 minutes ago, Danny Dravot said:

We are a union of states. What would motivate North Dakota to remain in a union where its voice is subordinate to California's? The House represents population differences but the Senate provides equal voices to all states. This is a basic foundational idea of this country and cannot simply be tossed out.

I agree on gerrymandering, although it is a sin of both parties, not just one. They'll have to be unequally sized, but shape should be mostly uniform and consistent.

Where is North Dakota going to go?  They have 1/52 of the population of CA, yet the same amount of senators who confirm Supreme Court judges. That isn't right.

[Soxbadger]

26 minutes ago, Danny Dravot said:

Greg, why do you think Puerto Rico would be guaranteed Democrat electoral votes? PR politics are a little strange, but as best I can tell, the current government belongs to the New Progressive Party which advocates statehood. Members are then split between those who affiliate with Democrats and those who affiliate with Republicans. The governor and resident commissioner to Congress are both on the Republican affiliated side.

I'm really tired of this idea that brown people are a threat because they'll vote for Democrats. If the Republican party wants to survive (and I want it to survive), the key is basing itself on ideology that appeals to everyone regardless of demographic shifts. I want an unconditionally patriotic party that supports reasonably limited governmen and promotes liberal democracy around the world with military force as a last albeit unhesitant resort.

There is NOTHING in what I just said that prevents "brown people" from supporting such a party. However, if the GOP insists on railing against even the possibility of demographic change, it will probably die off in popularity and power and shift the Overton window to the left. Seriously, think about it.

 

After the last 2 weeks the Republican party doesnt deserve to survive. I have no problem if someone wants to start a new party that reflected the ideas of Republicans (small govt, etc) but that isnt even what they are any more. The only thing that the Republican party stands for is keeping the Republican party in power. 

 

10 minutes ago, Danny Dravot said:

We are a union of states. What would motivate North Dakota to remain in a union where its voice is subordinate to California's? The House represents population differences but the Senate provides equal voices to all states. This is a basic foundational idea of this country and cannot simply be tossed out.

I agree on gerrymandering, although it is a sin of both parties, not just one. They'll have to be unequally sized, but shape should be mostly uniform and consistent.

Im not going to get into why ND would stay, but I will suggest why the current system has become more broken.

The voters in small states voices count more than the voters in larger states. If you break down the House, Senate, EC per population, every one of them skews towards the smaller states. This can be fixed and returned to the original intention by 1) increasing the amount of representatives in the house and 2) increasing the amount of electoral votes. 

The baseline population should be the smallest state and the guarantee. Wyoming has (ill round up) 600,000 people. They have 1 house Rep. California has 39,000,000 (rounding down). Based on this equation CA should have 78 reps. CA currently has 53. That means the state of California is significantly underrepresented in the House. 

The EC is the same. Wyoming has 3 votes at 600,000, so 1 ec for 200k people. California should have 195 ec votes. It only has 55. That means Wyoming's voters are 3x more powerful than a CA voter. 

[Quin]

50 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I love Jordan, may be my favorite politician aside from Cruz right now. I like their style so to speak.

Trolling?