2020 Election Thoughts

[CentralChamps21]

12 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

Academia has been gutting professorships for a long time now. More and more teaching is done by TA's and poorly paid adjuncts. Tenure-track positions are withering away. All of that extra tuition money isn't going into their pockets. It's going to admin and increasingly lavish campuses.

Whether it be professors or campuses, neither seem like something that the government should be funding indirectly by forgiving student loan debt.

[Quin]

So, I was lucky in that my parents were able to pay for my tuition (and I was able to get tuition waivers for grad school because I was teaching courses as a TA). That's allowed me to get a good paying job for my field / advance rapidly. Basically, the only debt I've had to worry about was medical debt because once I developed epilepsy, I kept finding myself waking up in emergency rooms for ambulances I didn't call (if I was lucky, I woke up in the ambulance or ER and could deny service. America!)

My parents (baby boomers) were able to go to school when it was significantly cheaper and both have graduate degrees, my dad being a lawyer with his own firm for the vast majority of his career. My parents also began saving for my tuition from the time I was born.

The cost of tuition has risen exponentially - more than 3,000%. 

Not everyone is lucky enough to be in my situation. Communities of color don't have generational wealth where every parent can afford the asinine increase in tuition (I'm not trying to paint every person of color with the same brush). My best friend had to rely on massive scholarships and huge student loans to get where he is - and that was just to attend Illinois State.

Those degrees are needed to enter the job market (I'm talking about both white students and POC students now). A lot of jobs (even entry) require years of experience and degrees, so unless someone has a solution that fixes this massive oversight that society has built, it needs to be addressed.

It would be far better for the economy than tax cuts that never trickle down, because people who are no longer burned by never ending student loans (because of the interest) would be able to invest in local businesses, save up for housing, etc. 

I'd like someone to riddle me how the GOP tax cuts (which have a poison pill set to go into effect in 2021, so middle class taxes will go back up) are better for the economy long term.

[StrangeSox]

13 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

Whether it be professors or campuses, neither seem like something that the government should be funding indirectly by forgiving student loan debt.

We ought to be funding all forms of post hs education or job training, imo.

[CentralChamps21]

3 minutes ago, Quin said:

So, I was lucky in that my parents were able to pay for my tuition (and I was able to get tuition waivers for grad school because I was teaching courses as a TA). That's allowed me to get a good paying job for my field / advance rapidly. Basically, the only debt I've had to worry about was medical debt because once I developed epilepsy, I kept finding myself waking up in emergency rooms for ambulances I didn't call (if I was lucky, I woke up in the ambulance or ER and could deny service. America!)

My parents (baby boomers) were able to go to school when it was significantly cheaper and both have graduate degrees, my dad being a lawyer with his own firm for the vast majority of his career. My parents also began saving for my tuition from the time I was born.

The cost of tuition has risen exponentially - more than 3,000%. 

Not everyone is lucky enough to be in my situation. Communities of color don't have generational wealth where every parent can afford the asinine increase in tuition (I'm not trying to paint every person of color with the same brush). My best friend had to rely on massive scholarships and huge student loans to get where he is - and that was just to attend Illinois State.

Those degrees are needed to enter the job market (I'm talking about both white students and POC students now). A lot of jobs (even entry) require years of experience and degrees, so unless someone has a solution that fixes this massive oversight that society has built, it needs to be addressed.

It would be far better for the economy than tax cuts that never trickle down, because people who are no longer burned by never ending student loans (because of the interest) would be able to invest in local businesses, save up for housing, etc. 

I'd like someone to riddle me how the GOP tax cuts (which have a poison pill set to go into effect in 2021, so middle class taxes will go back up) are better for the economy long term.

I'm not comparing student loan forgiveness to GOP tax cuts. I'm comparing them to massive investment in K-12 education in inner cities, which will do a whole lot more to build generational wealth in communities of color than student loan forgiveness, not to mention the massive reduction in the public burden when it comes to the criminal justice system and entitlements.

[bmags]

6 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

I'm not comparing student loan forgiveness to GOP tax cuts. I'm comparing them to massive investment in K-12 education in inner cities, which will do a whole lot more to build generational wealth in communities of color than student loan forgiveness, not to mention the massive reduction in the public burden when it comes to the criminal justice system and entitlements.

Yes. However, I think the reason this has momentum is it can be done at the executive level, not congressional level. You can forgive these student loans, and it's not coming at the cost of k-12 education. I'm not sure I believe in either/or's in politics. You can either get something done now or you can't. And if you can, you really should. There are a whole lot of bills that exist that are better than this, but can't pass a 60 vote threshold or a house. But this it doesn't matter because you can just do it, so is it worth helping a group of people that aren't at the front of the line for needing help just because you can?

I say yes.

[Quin]

2 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

I'm not comparing student loan forgiveness to GOP tax cuts. I'm comparing them to massive investment in K-12 education in inner cities, which will do a whole lot more to build generational wealth in communities of color than student loan forgiveness, not to mention the massive reduction in the public burden when it comes to the criminal justice system and entitlements.

We can - and should do - both.

A big step would be making it so that schools aren't funded by local property taxes. My high school was broke compared to our rival a town over despite being a similar size. We were using outdated textbooks, etc. 

That alone leads to a massive disparity.

[CentralChamps21]

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

Yes. However, I think the reason this has momentum is it can be done at the executive level, not congressional level. You can forgive these student loans, and it's not coming at the cost of k-12 education. I'm not sure I believe in either/or's in politics. You can either get something done now or you can't. And if you can, you really should. There are a whole lot of bills that exist that are better than this, but can't pass a 60 vote threshold or a house. But this it doesn't matter because you can just do it, so is it worth helping a group of people that aren't at the front of the line for needing help just because you can?

I say yes.

I don't even see anybody out there advocating what I'm suggesting for K-12 education. 20+ candidates in the early Democratic debates and I didn't hear it coming from a single one.

[CentralChamps21]

2 minutes ago, Quin said:

We can - and should do - both.

A big step would be making it so that schools aren't funded by local property taxes. My high school was broke compared to our rival a town over despite being a similar size. We were using outdated textbooks, etc. 

That alone leads to a massive disparity.

My family moved to Indiana due to property taxes and put me in an online charter school. I'm not complaining because it has worked out really well for me but it shouldn't have to work this way.

I don't know that the Federal government can bar states from using property taxes to fund schools. It would be a great idea though.

[Dominikk85]

The worst thing about trump is that he will legitimate discussions difficult.

Trump was very smart with his counterattack strategy. When trump was facing legitimate criticism by the left he would just make up a counterpoint.

 

For example when confronted with identity politics and racism accusations trump basically declared white people a discriminated group (kinda like POC get all the stipends and poor white get nothing)

When confronted with the legitimate issue of black voter suppression he made up his own election manipulation thing.

This makes it tougher to discuss this issues in the Future because then Republicans will just say "but you stole the election too" and in the end this stuff is probably lost all together because trump kinda created a stalemate were both accuse each other of cheating.

This won't save trump from his lost election but it will make some discussions tougher.

[Dominikk85]

33 minutes ago, Quin said:

So, I was lucky in that my parents were able to pay for my tuition (and I was able to get tuition waivers for grad school because I was teaching courses as a TA). That's allowed me to get a good paying job for my field / advance rapidly. Basically, the only debt I've had to worry about was medical debt because once I developed epilepsy, I kept finding myself waking up in emergency rooms for ambulances I didn't call (if I was lucky, I woke up in the ambulance or ER and could deny service. America!)

My parents (baby boomers) were able to go to school when it was significantly cheaper and both have graduate degrees, my dad being a lawyer with his own firm for the vast majority of his career. My parents also began saving for my tuition from the time I was born.

The cost of tuition has risen exponentially - more than 3,000%. 

Not everyone is lucky enough to be in my situation. Communities of color don't have generational wealth where every parent can afford the asinine increase in tuition (I'm not trying to paint every person of color with the same brush). My best friend had to rely on massive scholarships and huge student loans to get where he is - and that was just to attend Illinois State.

Those degrees are needed to enter the job market (I'm talking about both white students and POC students now). A lot of jobs (even entry) require years of experience and degrees, so unless someone has a solution that fixes this massive oversight that society has built, it needs to be addressed.

It would be far better for the economy than tax cuts that never trickle down, because people who are no longer burned by never ending student loans (because of the interest) would be able to invest in local businesses, save up for housing, etc. 

I'd like someone to riddle me how the GOP tax cuts (which have a poison pill set to go into effect in 2021, so middle class taxes will go back up) are better for the economy long term.

I think both the us healthcare system and education system both are insanely cost inflated.

 

Especially on the healthcare side people are arguing about free market but the US system is not more cost efficient than the "socialist" european systems but in fact the stuff is way more expensive in the us than in many other industrialized countries.

Obviously in europe healthcare isn't free either as it has to be paid for too but still if you account for that US system is way more expensive.

The only argument for such a system like in the US would be that it is more cost efficient but it isn't and by a lot.

Also is Healthcare actually spends a higher percentage on administrative costs than public systems which also is stupid.

I don't have anything against capitalism but healthcare and education industry in the US seems to be an expensive, inefficient thing.

[bmags]

24 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

I don't even see anybody out there advocating what I'm suggesting for K-12 education. 20+ candidates in the early Democratic debates and I didn't hear it coming from a single one.

https://elizabethwarren.com/plans/public-education

The reason you don't hear about it in democratic debates is because it isn't novel and controversial so it won't be given time of day.

Quote

There are problems with federal funding too. The Elementary and Secondary Education Act is a civil rights law Congress enacted to provide supplemental support for students from low-income backgrounds or those who need extra support, like English Language Learners and students who are homeless or in foster care. Almost every school district and 70% of schools receive some Title I money, but the current investment in Title I - $15.8 billion - is not nearly enough to make up for state-level funding inequities. And Title I funding itself is distributed based on a formula that isn’t always efficiently targeted to ensure adequate support for the schools and students who need it most. 

Quote

My plan addresses each and every aspect of this problem. It starts by quadrupling Title I funding - an additional $450 billion over the next 10 years - to help ensure that all children get a high-quality public education. 

But we need to do more than just increase funding. We also need to ensure that federal funds are reaching the students and schools that need it most. That’s why I’m committed to working with public education leaders and school finance experts to improve the way the federal government allocates this new Title I funding. And I would impose transparency requirements on this new funding so that we can understand what investments work best and adapt our approach accordingly.

biden

Quote

Biden will work to close this gap by nearly tripling Title I funding, which goes to schools serving a high number of children from low-income families. This new funding will first be used to ensure teachers at Title I schools are paid competitively, three- and four-year-olds have access to pre-school, and districts provide access to rigorous coursework across all their schools, not just a few. Once these conditions are met, districts will have the flexibility to use these funds to meet other local priorities. States without a sufficient and equitable finance system will be required to match a share of federal funds.

Quote

• Build the best, most innovative schools in the country in low-income communities and communities of color. Preparing our students for the workforce increasingly entails not only rigorous academics, but also problem-solving, collaboration, and technical skills. Biden will create a new competitive program challenging local communities to reinvent high school to meet these changing demands of work. This funding will be targeted first toward building the best schools in the country in low-income communities and communities of color.

"Invest in K12 education" tends to be the thing that everyone says and just falls to the noise.

[NWINFan]

I earned two Bachelor's degrees by working my way through college. It was a while ago, and I won't say how long.

I had the following advantages:

A state university had a regional campus a 15-minute drive from my home. I was able to get a decent paying job. By working full-time in the summer and part-time the rest of the year, I was able to pay for school, put gas in my car, and even go to a few Sox games. Where I worked allowed me to adjust my schedule according to my classes. I was able to live at home.

Things are more complicated now. I think we should be investing in the younger generation. Instead of wanting to spend billions on border walls, we would be better off by having a well-educated or well-trained workforce. It would help us compete in a world economy. Afraid of immigrants taking your job? You'd have less fears if you well prepared to enter the American workforce. But that is hard to do with the way college costs are now. 

[southsider2k5]

18 hours ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

This is exactly what it is. It is an asinine proposal. You're just giving more money to those who are generally more well off. Why stop there? Might as well pay off people's car loans and mortgage while we are at it. Free stuff for everybody. 

Like I said, when do the Boomers payoff the 30 trillion they took out in loans in terms of the national debt?  Talk to me when that happens.

[ron883]

8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Like I said, when do the Boomers payoff the 30 trillion they took out in loans in terms of the national debt?  Talk to me when that happens.

So piling additional debt on top is the solution? 

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

So piling additional debt on top is the solution? 

Why is debt only a worry when it doesn't benefit the rich and/or Boomers?

[ron883]

12 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Why is debt only a worry when it doesn't benefit the rich and/or Boomers?

Why doesnt the government just pay for everything? I would love some help on my car loans and mortgage. 

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Why doesnt the government just pay for everything? I would love some help on my car loans and mortgage. 

The funny part is you get help on both, courtesy of the government.

[bmags]

1 minute ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Why doesnt the government just pay for everything? I would love some help on my car loans and mortgage. 

You do get help on your mortgage.

[ron883]

19 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The funny part is you get help on both, courtesy of the government.

Can they pay it in full for me? I need free stuff

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

You do get help on your mortgage.

You also get help on the interest rates by the fed keeping artificially low rates.

[southsider2k5]

48 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Can they pay it in full for me? I need free stuff

Sorry you are neither rich nor old enough for Mitch McConnell to give a shit about you.

[StrangeSox]

Governments pay for many goods and services. They already cover education from K-12 or even pre-K-12 in many places. Saying "hey let's cover another few years for education that can help keep us competitive economically but which is currently indebting our younger generation at unsustainable levels" doesn't seem like some sort of crazy, insane idea. Public colleges used to be much better funded and consequently much more affordable to attend.

[CentralChamps21]

7 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

Governments pay for many goods and services. They already cover education from K-12 or even pre-K-12 in many places. Saying "hey let's cover another few years for education that can help keep us competitive economically but which is currently indebting our younger generation at unsustainable levels" doesn't seem like some sort of crazy, insane idea. Public colleges used to be much better funded and consequently much more affordable to attend.

Too much of the burden of paying for K-12 schools falls on local governments, making it easy for the haves to wall themselves off from the have-nots. Those property tax dollars in Hinsdale and Lake Forest need to be going to all schools, not just theirs.

I'm all for making community colleges and lower-tier public universities more affordable, but not for just wiping out a bunch of already-existing debt.

[southsider2k5]

34 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

Governments pay for many goods and services. They already cover education from K-12 or even pre-K-12 in many places. Saying "hey let's cover another few years for education that can help keep us competitive economically but which is currently indebting our younger generation at unsustainable levels" doesn't seem like some sort of crazy, insane idea. Public colleges used to be much better funded and consequently much more affordable to attend.

If nothing else it is a recognition that things have changed both in that college is no longer something easy to attend financially like it was in the old days, and that it is MUCH more vital to having a career that will actually pay you a livable wage.

[Kyyle23]

 

 

whoops it appears you -cannot- say whatever the fuck you want