2020 Election Thoughts

[Danny Dravot]

So reports are that Biden intends to nominate Neera Tanden to head the OMB. I thought she was the chief of Center for American Progress, but progressives are freaking out on Twitter. Can one of the local progs here help me understand what all the fuss is about?

[Jose Abreu]

11 minutes ago, Danny Dravot said:

So reports are that Biden intends to nominate Neera Tanden to head the OMB. I thought she was the chief of Center for American Progress, but progressives are freaking out on Twitter. Can one of the local progs here help me understand what all the fuss is about?

She antagonizes leftists and is essentially an establishment liberal disguised as progressive. Basically the poster child for racial diversity not equaling actual progress or ideological diversity.

https://twitter.com/briebriejoy has some tweets that explain it

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Jose Abreu

[The Beast]

2 hours ago, NWINFan said:

Tax breaks for the rich, de-regulation, law and order, race baiting. These are all Republican staples. No way this guy ran as a Republican. But then again, his rally speeches never made any sense so there were times when I had no idea what his platform was. Distrust in the electoral process was one, but that was all he was clear about. His bid for re-election espoused no vision for a second term because he didn't have one. His approval ratings had been in the low to mid-forties. He did a little better at 47%, but Biden picked up 15 million more votes than Hillary. He appealed to his base only and lost. That was not surprising since his base was never in the majority in the first place. Meanwhile the GOP was left in the dust.

It makes me wonder where never Trump conservatives go after the Trump rust goes away. Do they become blue dog Democrats or hope that the electorate votes for bread and butter moderates (the kind I like to vote for on the Republican side).

1 hour ago, Danny Dravot said:

So reports are that Biden intends to nominate Neera Tanden to head the OMB. I thought she was the chief of Center for American Progress, but progressives are freaking out on Twitter. Can one of the local progs here help me understand what all the fuss is about?

I wish I knew who they wanted. She works for a liberal think tank and Wikipedia mentions her being a progressive (I know, Wikipedia). Short of Sanders, AOC, Tlaib and Omar being added to the cabinet I don’t know what will satisfy them.

[Danny Dravot]

1 hour ago, Jose Abreu said:

She antagonizes leftists and is essentially an establishment liberal disguised as progressive. Basically the poster child for racial diversity not equaling actual progress or ideological diversity.

https://twitter.com/briebriejoy has some tweets that explain it

 

I appreciate your response and I’ve greatly appreciated our DMs, but I will never stop being amused by attacks on Neera Tanden and Cedric Richmond from the left. To each their own, I suppose.

I do thoroughly disagree with Brie’s assertion that a majority of Americans want a wealth tax. But we’ve eaten that can of worms already in this thread.

Side note- Richmond has a career 2.85 ERA in the Congressional Baseball Game. Perhaps an option for the back of the rotation?

[Danny Dravot]

4 hours ago, The Beast said:

I wish I knew who they wanted. She works for a liberal think tank and Wikipedia mentions her being a progressive (I know, Wikipedia). Short of Sanders, AOC, Tlaib and Omar being added to the cabinet I don’t know what will satisfy them.

Agreed.
 

Tangential, but I saw an article bemoaning how Joe refused to give a position on the BLM-backed BREATHE Act. If you’re not familiar, it’s the sort of thing that keeps Greg up at night.

It’d keep me up at night too, if it had any chance of EVER passing. It doesn’t. The text of the bill includes cutting the DOD budget in half. I don’t care if Loeffler and Perdue lose. I don’t care if Joe Manchin gets replaced by an Appalachian version of Lenin. Other proscriptions aside, which includes a bunch of criminal justice items and such, this will never happen. Ever.

I really want @greg775 to understand this.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Danny Dravot

[The Beast]

2 hours ago, Danny Dravot said:

Agreed.
 

Tangential, but I saw an article bemoaning how Joe refused to give a position on the BLM-backed BREATHE Act. If you’re not familiar, it’s the sort of thing that keeps Greg up at night.

It’d keep me up at night too, if it had any chance of EVER passing. It doesn’t. The text of the bill includes cutting the DOD budget in half. I don’t care if Loeffler and Perdue lose. I don’t care if Joe Manchin gets replaced by an Appalachian version of Lenin. Other proscriptions inside, which includes a bunch of criminal justice items and such, this will never happen. Ever.

I really want @greg775 to understand this.

Right and the democratic members of Congress mostly would want to do things like ban chokeholds or create more jobs with social workers or psychologists, not defund police forces. That kind of policy is horse shit that will never pass Congress.

[Jose Abreu]

3 hours ago, Danny Dravot said:

I appreciate your response and I’ve greatly appreciated our DMs, but I will never stop being amused by attacks on Neera Tanden and Cedric Richmond from the left. To each their own, I suppose.

 

I can’t speak for Richmond, whom I’m less familiar with, but no leftist considers Neera Tanden to be one of them, FWIW. I think people see her race/gender and occupation and just assume she’s progressive. Her actual views that I see her express are fairly close to Biden’s

[tray]

Absurd amounts of wealth concentrated in the hands of a few is becoming a bigger problem.  Socialism isn't the answer but SOMETHING and probably more than one thing (like increasing taxes on the wealthy)will have to be done. 

Same goes for a health care system based on employer based health insurance coverage. It is not a sustainable model for the future. When  redneck republicans  realize that many of them are on the short end of the stick in this country, the GOTP (grand old Trump party)  will see their numbers drop from 47%.

Some of them are starting to realize that they were conned and lied to by Trump and Fox News. Nobody likes that.

[Danny Dravot]

1 hour ago, Jose Abreu said:

I can’t speak for Richmond, whom I’m less familiar with, but no leftist considers Neera Tanden to be one of them, FWIW. I think people see her race/gender and occupation and just assume she’s progressive. Her actual views that I see her express are fairly close to Biden’s

This is a bit similar to the RINO smear on the right. Just glancing at Wikipedia like Beast, Tanden supports universal healthcare coverage but has questions about M4A. She supports a job guarantee, and opposes right to work laws and work-for-welfare requirements.

I understand if you’re farther left than she is, but if you are, isn’t she at least a step in the right direction? Take what you can get and move the window as you can. Throwing a fit over her ascension to head OMB seems like shooting yourself in the foot.

Thinking about my own stances, it’s not like we’re gonna plow the streets of Tehran with Abrams tanks anytime soon. I’d be dumb to make it an all-or-nothing deal. I’ll happily accept sanctions, covert operations (like the recent ones against Abdullah and Fahkrizadeh), and peace treaties that contribute to that regime’s containment and isolation, even if it’s not my absolute ideal.

[NWINFan]

8 hours ago, tray said:

Absurd amounts of wealth concentrated in the hands of a few is becoming a bigger problem.  Socialism isn't the answer but SOMETHING and probably more than one thing (like increasing taxes on the wealthy)will have to be done. 

Same goes for a health care system based on employer based health insurance coverage. It is not a sustainable model for the future. When  redneck republicans  realize that many of them are on the short end of the stick in this country, the GOTP (grand old Trump party)  will see their numbers drop from 47%.

Some of them are starting to realize that they were conned and lied to by Trump and Fox News. Nobody likes that.

Socialism is a dirty word to most, but when W Bush tried to privatize Social Security, it didn't go anywhere. The Dems took a beating in 1994 after the Clinton attempt to reform health care backfired on them. But Obamacare, even with its flaws, is popular with many especially with those who finally have some kind of health insurance. All the dire warnings about Obamacare ruining the country turned out to have no credibility. People will be more open to government programs if they level the playing field some. Trumpism is not as powerful as some think. But if the GOP continues to enable him, it will be their problem. 

[StrangeSox]

8 hours ago, Danny Dravot said:

This is a bit similar to the RINO smear on the right. Just glancing at Wikipedia like Beast, Tanden supports universal healthcare coverage but has questions about M4A. She supports a job guarantee, and opposes right to work laws and work-for-welfare requirements.

I understand if you’re farther left than she is, but if you are, isn’t she at least a step in the right direction? Take what you can get and move the window as you can. Throwing a fit over her ascension to head OMB seems like shooting yourself in the foot.

Thinking about my own stances, it’s not like we’re gonna plow the streets of Tehran with Abrams tanks anytime soon. I’d be dumb to make it an all-or-nothing deal. I’ll happily accept sanctions, covert operations (like the recent ones against Abdullah and Fahkrizadeh), and peace treaties that contribute to that regime’s containment and isolation, even if it’s not my absolute ideal.

Neera Tanden is not a step in the right direction if you're from the Bernie or even Warren wing of the Democratic party. A lot of the progressive base is worried that the centrist ghouls who are going to fill Biden's admin are going to be all-in on yet another round of crippling, brutal austerity in the face of yet another protracted economic disaster. And, of course, the looming global disaster of climate change, where every day we fail to act makes things much harder to fix down the road.

[Dick Allen]

27 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

Neera Tanden is not a step in the right direction if you're from the Bernie or even Warren wing of the Democratic party. A lot of the progressive base is worried that the centrist ghouls who are going to fill Biden's admin are going to be all-in on yet another round of crippling, brutal austerity in the face of yet another protracted economic disaster. And, of course, the looming global disaster of climate change, where every day we fail to act makes things much harder to fix down the road.

What will be interesting is the confirmation process. All those republican senators who never saw a Trump tweet are going to be all over Tanden's tweets.

[StrangeSox]

 

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

On 11/29/2020 at 9:14 AM, NWINFan said:

There was a bar/restaurant in the town next to me that had Trump banners all over the front.  After the election, the banners went down. At least one Trump supporter is facing reality. 

In my neighborhood the Christmas decorations came up extra early this year.

[Danny Dravot]

1 hour ago, StrangeSox said:

Neera Tanden is not a step in the right direction if you're from the Bernie or even Warren wing of the Democratic party. A lot of the progressive base is worried that the centrist ghouls who are going to fill Biden's admin are going to be all-in on yet another round of crippling, brutal austerity in the face of yet another protracted economic disaster. And, of course, the looming global disaster of climate change, where every day we fail to act makes things much harder to fix down the road.

Genuine question, and feel free to DM if you don't want to open this can of worms publicly- what do you think the looming global disaster of climate change is, exactly? What's going to happen and when? What are the implications? And moreover, what would you like to do about it?

I'm not trying to pinhole you. Climate change really isn't an issue that I think about, but I hear about it in vague (to my ears, at least) terms all the time, and I'm sincerely curious what the exact fear is and what the desired solutions are.

[Danny Dravot]

Rick Wilson is a great reminder that you can be nominally on the right, despise Trump, and be an absolute horrible creep of a human being all at once.

[The Beast]

17 hours ago, tray said:

Absurd amounts of wealth concentrated in the hands of a few is becoming a bigger problem.  Socialism isn't the answer but SOMETHING and probably more than one thing (like increasing taxes on the wealthy)will have to be done. 

Same goes for a health care system based on employer based health insurance coverage. It is not a sustainable model for the future. When  redneck republicans  realize that many of them are on the short end of the stick in this country, the GOTP (grand old Trump party)  will see their numbers drop from 47%.

Some of them are starting to realize that they were conned and lied to by Trump and Fox News. Nobody likes that.

Why is employer based insurance not sustainable? Sure it kind of sucks that people have to stay at their jobs for insurance and benefits to have them, but I don’t understand how health insurance as it is now isn’t sustainable. 

8 hours ago, NWINFan said:

Socialism is a dirty word to most, but when W Bush tried to privatize Social Security, it didn't go anywhere. The Dems took a beating in 1994 after the Clinton attempt to reform health care backfired on them. But Obamacare, even with its flaws, is popular with many especially with those who finally have some kind of health insurance. All the dire warnings about Obamacare ruining the country turned out to have no credibility. People will be more open to government programs if they level the playing field some. Trumpism is not as powerful as some think. But if the GOP continues to enable him, it will be their problem. 

What I don’t understand is how some concessions on policy and a move toward the middle doesn’t deliver some ideas that progressives want. I always thought of Obamacare as that kind of compromise.

8 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

Neera Tanden is not a step in the right direction if you're from the Bernie or even Warren wing of the Democratic party. A lot of the progressive base is worried that the centrist ghouls who are going to fill Biden's admin are going to be all-in on yet another round of crippling, brutal austerity in the face of yet another protracted economic disaster. And, of course, the looming global disaster of climate change, where every day we fail to act makes things much harder to fix down the road.

What do people from those wings of the party want to see though? The progressives I know have been really quiet lately unlike they were in the primaries.

[southsider2k5]

 

[southsider2k5]

 

 

[Dick Allen]

Donald Trump Jr. is sending texts looking for donors, saying it's desperation time they need to meet their fundraising goals or the recounts are going to go against them. And virtual none of that money, unless the donation is over $8k actually goes to that effort, it goes to the Trump slush fund.  First off, it's amazing to me that this grift is legal. Secondly, what scum. So far this grift has put $170 million into his pocket.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Dick Allen

[NWINFan]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

Donald Trump Jr. is sending texts looking for donors, saying it's desperation time they need to meet their fundraising goals or the recounts are going to go against them. And virtual none of that money, unless the donation is over $8k actually goes to that effort, it goes to the Trump slush fund.  First off, it's amazing to me that this grift is legal. Secondly, what scum. So far this grift has put $170 million into his pocket.

They may get away with the scam, but I really don't think this is legal. Campaign donations are supposed to be used for campaigning. The mayor of Whiting, IN, got indicted because he was using campaign donations to pay off gambling debts. It was a shame he did this, because he otherwise was a dedicated public official. But what he did was clearly illegal and he is going to pay for it.

Trump has gotten into trouble like this before. Solicit money for a cause but divert it for personal use. That is why his so-called foundation got shut down.

It shows the Trumpies just don't get it, and they don't get it on two counts. First, their man was trounced in a fair and legal election. Secondly, he is fleecing them for their money while doing nothing for them. One more thing: their man is nothing but a dictator. Telling a governor to "declare an emergency" is a trait of a true dictator.

[Danny Dravot]

32 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

They may get away with the scam, but I really don't think this is legal. Campaign donations are supposed to be used for campaigning. The mayor of Whiting, IN, got indicted because he was using campaign donations to pay off gambling debts. It was a shame he did this, because he otherwise was a dedicated public official. But what he did was clearly illegal and he is going to pay for it.

Trump has gotten into trouble like this before. Solicit money for a cause but divert it for personal use. That is why his so-called foundation got shut down.

It shows the Trumpies just don't get it, and they don't get it on two counts. First, their man was trounced in a fair and legal election. Secondly, he is fleecing them for their money while doing nothing for them. One more thing: their man is nothing but a dictator. Telling a governor to "declare an emergency" is a trait of a true dictator.

This reminds me of Marion Barry's, "Well, except for the murders, the crime rate has gone way down under my tenure!"

[southsider2k5]

2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Donald Trump Jr. is sending texts looking for donors, saying it's desperation time they need to meet their fundraising goals or the recounts are going to go against them. And virtual none of that money, unless the donation is over $8k actually goes to that effort, it goes to the Trump slush fund.  First off, it's amazing to me that this grift is legal. Secondly, what scum. So far this grift has put $170 million into his pocket.

It is quite literally the reason they haven't abicated, er conceded.  They are profiting from it.

[Danny Dravot]

2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Donald Trump Jr. is sending texts looking for donors, saying it's desperation time they need to meet their fundraising goals or the recounts are going to go against them. And virtual none of that money, unless the donation is over $8k actually goes to that effort, it goes to the Trump slush fund.  First off, it's amazing to me that this grift is legal. Secondly, what scum. So far this grift has put $170 million into his pocket.

It's similar to the "build the wall" crowdfunding scam that now seems destined to land Steve Bannon in prison. Less criminal than either of these grifts, as well, is a tweet thread I saw months ago after Bernie dropped out, where donors were wondering if they could get refunds because they gave significant amounts that they could not afford in the hopes of having their student loan debts vaporized. As if their donations were investments!

Honestly, if you're stupid enough to fall for any of this, you deserve to lose your money.

[NWINFan]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

It is quite literally the reason they haven't abicated, er conceded.  They are profiting from it.

Meanwhile, Covid, the thing that Trump said would end after the election, is spreading even more. And the sitting president is only trying to line his pockets and soothe his ego.