2020 Election Thoughts

[The Beast]

3 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

Probably should not bother listening to garbage propagandists who lie constantly and knowingly, imo. You don't follow him because it's meant for a credulous base.

Levin was extremely angry and just ranting about how the election was stolen. Hewitt at least has something interesting to say even if I disagree with him on a lot. If there are other conservatives I should listen to that are better and are not peddling garbage to their base I’d be interested to listen to them. One thing I do notice is that they replay the same cuts over and over about Georgia and election fraud. Gee, I wonder why.

10 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I think he ends up making tons of money with a lobbying and influence group down the road.  i think he is probably done politically, but he will be one rich dude when all is said and done.

Any shot of a 2024 run for Pence?

[southsider2k5]

Just now, The Beast said:

Levin was extremely angry and just ranting about how the election was stolen. Hewitt at least has something interesting to say even if I disagree with him on a lot. If there are other conservatives I should listen to that are better and are not peddling garbage to their base I’d be interested to listen to them. One thing I do notice is that they replay the same cuts over and over about Georgia and election fraud. Gee, I wonder why.

Any shot of a 2024 run for Pence?

He might want to, but I don't see him having the staying power over the Trump base to do it.  He has pretty much stayed hidden for four years.

[The Beast]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

He might want to, but I don't see him having the staying power over the Trump base to do it.  He has pretty much stayed hidden for four years.

Yes, it sure seems like Pence will appeal mostly to the religious right and not the Trump base.

[Big Hurtin]

 

[Balta1701]

53 minutes ago, The Beast said:

Any shot of a 2024 run for Pence?

Pence might actually win...if none of the Trumps run, as being Trump's loyal servant may still count for something with his voters. If he was running against either Trump or Trump Jr., I don't see who his supporters would be.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Big Hurtin said:

 

Is that really a bombshell though?  I mean that has been their business model for like 5 years now.

[pcq]

Generalissimo Miguel Flynn calling for the military to overturn the election:

In response to a clip of Flynn's Newsmax appearance, retired Gen. Tony Thomas reminded Flynn that he knows better than to make such wild claims. "You know that leveraging the military to 'rerun elections' is a totally inappropriate role for the profession," the former commander of the United States Special Operations Command tweeted. "Stop!"

[Stinky Stanky]

4 hours ago, The Beast said:

Levin was extremely angry and just ranting about how the election was stolen. Hewitt at least has something interesting to say even if I disagree with him on a lot. If there are other conservatives I should listen to that are better and are not peddling garbage to their base I’d be interested to listen to them. One thing I do notice is that they replay the same cuts over and over about Georgia and election fraud. Gee, I wonder why.

Any shot of a 2024 run for Pence?

Mark Levin?  Extremely angry?  Hard to believe.  He's usually the epitome of calm. ?

[NWINFan]

1 hour ago, pcq said:

Generalissimo Miguel Flynn calling for the military to overturn the election:

In response to a clip of Flynn's Newsmax appearance, retired Gen. Tony Thomas reminded Flynn that he knows better than to make such wild claims. "You know that leveraging the military to 'rerun elections' is a totally inappropriate role for the profession," the former commander of the United States Special Operations Command tweeted. "Stop!"

Flynn really needs to go back to prison. And stay there.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, pcq said:

Generalissimo Miguel Flynn calling for the military to overturn the election:

In response to a clip of Flynn's Newsmax appearance, retired Gen. Tony Thomas reminded Flynn that he knows better than to make such wild claims. "You know that leveraging the military to 'rerun elections' is a totally inappropriate role for the profession," the former commander of the United States Special Operations Command tweeted. "Stop!"

Can we call it a coup now?

[pcq]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Can we call it a coup now?

I don't see a military consensus but you can guess The Proud Boys will be out in farce on Inauguration Day. Pentagon shakeup makes for an interesting side show. 

[The Beast]

6 hours ago, Stinky Stanky said:

Mark Levin?  Extremely angry?  Hard to believe.  He's usually the epitome of calm. ?

Hahaha it was the first time I listened to him.

[NWINFan]

14 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Can we call it a coup now?

Or we can just call it tiresome. Biden had been certified by the Electoral College as President-elect of the United States. In little less than a month, he will be the Commander-in-Chief. And all of this will happen no matter how paranoids scream their insane shit. In Michigan, there were these goons threatening violence if the results weren't overturned. If you add the votes of third and minor party candidates, Trump lost the state by nearly a quarter of a million votes. Yet, he was supposed to be awarded the electoral votes? You can call that a coup or just plain fascism. I don't care what lunatic Mark Levin says.

The transition should be happening, but it isn't. Trump should be acting like a president. He isn't. But then again, he never did. And many of his followers should be in therapy. Intensive therapy.

[pcq]

The only vote that matters was the EC. The voting accusations are another way of saying too many people were allowed to vote. 

[Texsox]

So who is hoping for a student loan forgiveness program? I've been reading many of the arguments for and against and my gut tells me it would be helpful to a lot of people. 

[Danny Dravot]

16 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Can we call it a coup now?

No.

I saw a clip a few weeks ago of hundreds of protesters marching in Denver behind a banner that said "Death to fascism and the LIBERALS who enable it" and chanting something like, "no USA at all". That's a pretty open attack on American democracy by a bunch of psychopathic idiots who want us all to live in a horror show, but is it a coup? Nope. It's speech.

Michael Flynn is a moron and an ex-con who turned against everything he supposedly once believed in ("uphold the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic"). He should not be calling for martial law. People like Tony Thomas should be excoriating him for doing so. But him ranting wildly about things that are never going to happen is not a coup.

The first amendment doesn't just protect anodyne banter. It protects everything. I would personally prefer that nobody stand on the street corner doing public readings from The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, but it must be allowed. If someone wants to shoot a Jewish person over that, that's a crime. If someone wants to show up on Inauguration Day and forcibly prevent Joe Biden from becoming POTUS, that's a crime. But mere words, no matter how egregious, are not ever.

[Danny Dravot]

58 minutes ago, Texsox said:

So who is hoping for a student loan forgiveness program? I've been reading many of the arguments for and against and my gut tells me it would be helpful to a lot of people. 

No. My wife took out a loan to study abroad and she got that benefit. We still owe a little bit of money on it and it is our obligation to pay it back.

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, Danny Dravot said:

No.

I saw a clip a few weeks ago of hundreds of protesters marching in Denver behind a banner that said "Death to fascism and the LIBERALS who enable it" and chanting something like, "no USA at all". That's a pretty open attack on American democracy by a bunch of psychopathic idiots who want us all to live in a horror show, but is it a coup? Nope. It's speech.

Michael Flynn is a moron and an ex-con who turned against everything he supposedly once believed in ("uphold the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic"). He should not be calling for martial law. People like Tony Thomas should be excoriating him for doing so. But him ranting wildly about things that are never going to happen is not a coup.

The first amendment doesn't just protect anodyne banter. It protects everything. I would personally prefer that nobody stand on the street corner doing public readings from The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, but it must be allowed. If someone wants to shoot a Jewish person over that, that's a crime. If someone wants to show up on Inauguration Day and forcibly prevent Joe Biden from becoming POTUS, that's a crime. But mere words, no matter how egregious, are not ever.

One is trying to organize the military to overthrow the government.  The other is a fake whataboutism.

[Danny Dravot]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

One is trying to organize the military to overthrow the government.  The other is a fake whataboutism.

I'm sorry- what military rank does Michael Flynn hold?

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

So who is hoping for a student loan forgiveness program? I've been reading many of the arguments for and against and my gut tells me it would be helpful to a lot of people. 

On the bright side the argument seems to center on people getting something they didn't pay for not being fair. So that means the Boomer generation will be taking care of the 30 trillion dollar debt before they go, because they don't believe in getting things they didn't pay back, right?

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Danny Dravot said:

I'm sorry- what military rank does Michael Flynn hold?

Lol.  

[Danny Dravot]

 

11 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Lol.  

Michael Flynn holds no official position or authority and he lives in disgrace. He's not much different than those protesters in Denver. I'm not personally concerned that those protesters are going to get their way (I've repeatedly told greg to calm down about it) and I feel the same way about Flynn.

You desperately want to call certain things a coup. Well, what would you like to do about it? When a coup happens elsewhere, the plotters get crushed. Do you want Michael Flynn thrown in jail because of his words? Do you want idiotic Republican congressmen to be removed from the House and their voters to be disregarded in an undemocratic fashion?

You don't like it? Fine. I don't like it either. But I'm not going to turn into an authoritarian because of speech.

Edited December 19, 2020 by Danny Dravot

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, Danny Dravot said:

 

Michael Flynn holds no official position or authority and he lives in disgrace. He's not much different than those protesters in Denver. I'm not personally concerned that those protesters are going to get their way (I've repeatedly told greg to calm down about it) and I feel the same way about Flynn.

You desperately want to call certain things a coup. Well, what would you like to do about it? When a coup happens elsewhere, the plotters get crushed. Do you want Michael Flynn thrown in jail because of his words? Do you want idiotic Republican congressmen to be removed from the House and their voters to be disregarded in an undemocratic fashion?

You don't like it? Fine. I don't like it either. But I'm not going to turn into an authoritarian because of speech.

It doesn't matter. Freedom of speech is not an absolute right. You don't need to be in the military to lead a coup attempt, or attempt to lead a coup. 

Don't believe me?  Read the first word of the qualifiers.

 

[Danny Dravot]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

It doesn't matter. Freedom of speech is not an absolute right. You don't need to be in the military to lead a coup attempt, or attempt to lead a coup. 

Don't believe me?  Read the first word of the qualifiers.

 

The words of that code also apply then to the protesters I mentioned. They are willfully advocating the desirability of overthrowing and destroying the US government. Are they not?

I would argue on behalf of both Flynn and the protesters that, no matter what the statute says, speech should not be restricted. There is no harm until there is an action.

You would only argue as much for one of the groups. Why?

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Danny Dravot said:

The words of that code also apply then to the protesters I mentioned. They are willfully advocating the desirability of overthrowing and destroying the US government. Are they not?

I would argue on behalf of both Flynn and the protesters that, no matter what the statute says, speech should not be restricted. There is no harm until there is an action.

You would only argue as much for one of the groups. Why?

Why are you protecting the only one was has access to power and providing a direct plan to do so?