Texsox Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Just now, bmags said: I'm sorry this didn't qualify as close enough for you. But missing in your attempts to analogize is that this had the support of the acting head of state. It had the head of state recorded threatening a state official to fabricate votes in order to overturn the will of his state on a Sunday. It then three days later had him encouraging and leading a mob of supporters into a government building voting at that moment to end his presidency, where they broke in, killed a police officer, injured countless others, planted two bombs, frantically searched for members of congress while backup force was slow to respond because the man in charge of deploying it wanted it to happen. It was fought back, and then a few hours later more than half of the President's party voted with him in the house to overturn the election results. This all might not seem like that big a deal to you but for most of us a branch of government using mob rule to force what they want is dangerous, because there are actually many real examples of this set-up working at overthrowing democratically elected governments. In less than two weeks Biden will be president. Dems will control both houses. We will survive this. How many Americans do you believe will support a deadly takeover of the government? Will the military just get in line and follow Trump? But OK, how close are we to eliminating our government? If these terrorists had been successful and killed everyone in the capital that day, would Trump be President in two weeks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 minute ago, YoYoIsMyHero said: It ended up not working, though. Therefore and thusly, who cares? By this logic, they would have been heroes had they succeeded? The Founding Fathers are only the good guys because they won the Revolutionary War? They all would have been hung had the British won. The worst thing happening to these guys is losing their jobs or getting outed on the Internet , so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: But the key point here is McVeigh wasn’t attempting to subvert the results of an election or assassinate Clinton. Nobody would argue that it was an attempt to overthrow the government. And the police/ATF/FBI weren’t exactly cooperating with those groups to help them carry out their stated goals. Ruby Ridge, Waco, OKC and Columbine were birds of a completely different feather. Could we apply sedition/treason there? If they killed everyone in the capital that day, do you believe Trump would be president two weeks from now or would Biden? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentralChamps21 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, YoYoIsMyHero said: It ended up not working, though. Therefore and thusly, who cares? If we wait until something succeeds to judge how bad it is, then it's too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Texsox said: In less than two weeks Biden will be president. Dems will control both houses. We will survive this. How many Americans do you believe will support a deadly takeover of the government? Will the military just get in line and follow Trump? But OK, how close are we to eliminating our government? If these terrorists had been successful and killed everyone in the capital that day, would Trump be President in two weeks? We’re back to Designated Survivor storylines...but, it feels at least like a 50/50 possibility Biden would stand down like Gore did in 2000 if Trump still had the nuclear codes or control of and/or allegiance from at least half the US military. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentralChamps21 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, Texsox said: If they killed everyone in the capital that day, do you believe Trump would be president two weeks from now or would Biden? If they killed more than half of the Senators, they could not have certified the Electoral vote, so Pelosi would have become President on the 20th, unless she was also dead and there wasn't a quorum of House members to elect a new speaker, in which case the Constitution doesn't say what happens, so yeah, that would have been just fine. I cant' tell if you're just obfuscating to avoid admitting the obvious or if you really don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 OK, I'll bite. We're on the brink of disaster. Whose fearing Trump and Cruz recruiting an Army and over throwing the government? In two years how do they over throw our government? How are the right wing fascists taking over? How many Americans will be behind them in their revolution? And for the record, at the minimum long federal prison sentences for anyone who entered the Capital. Impeachment for Trump. Censure for Cruz and Hawley. Any fundraising they did while this was happening gets turned over to the families of the police members that were killed or injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 13 minutes ago, Texsox said: Great analogy. So how many Americans are agreeing with our modern day "Nazis"? How many Americans do you believe will act and continue this? A million? Ten million? All 70,000,000 Trump voters? We'll survive, but if you are worried what weapons do you own? How are you planning on protecting yourself? It's not an analogy it's a direct comparison. I'm sure the fascists thought they were doing what's best for America and Americans, as defined by the fascists. But they're violent fascists who directly attacked the United States Congress and the Vice President of the United States with the intent of lynching them and installing a fascist government. Do you understand that absent a successful counter coup to go around Trump and dod civilian command, other states national guard wouldn't have been allowed in and we could be looking at a much different situation today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Just now, WhiteSoxFan1993 said: If they killed more than half of the Senators, they could not have certified the Electoral vote, so Pelosi would have become President on the 20th, unless she was also dead and there wasn't a quorum of House members to elect a new speaker, in which case the Constitution doesn't say what happens, so yeah, that would have been just fine. I cant' tell if you're just obfuscating to avoid admitting the obvious or if you really don't get it. I do not believe a few thousand people can over throw our government. You apparently do. I am confident that we will survive this. I am confident that Biden will return America to where we were and improve upon it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentralChamps21 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Just now, Texsox said: I do not believe a few thousand people can over throw our government. You apparently do. I am confident that we will survive this. I am confident that Biden will return America to where we were and improve upon it. If the few thousand people have the President running interference for them in terms of preventing the military or law enforcement from stopping it, it's 100% possible, as we just witnessed. It took the VP, quite possibly illegally, ordering the National Guard in, in order to stop it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 10 minutes ago, Texsox said: In less than two weeks Biden will be president. Dems will control both houses. We will survive this. How many Americans do you believe will support a deadly takeover of the government? Will the military just get in line and follow Trump? But OK, how close are we to eliminating our government? If these terrorists had been successful and killed everyone in the capital that day, would Trump be President in two weeks? If Congress and the VP is lynched live on stream at the backing of POTUS, where the fuck do you think we are right now? AT BEST we are living under military rule after a violent counter coup until things can get "sorted out," because at that point Congress and the executive are out of commission. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, StrangeSox said: It's not an analogy it's a direct comparison. I'm sure the fascists thought they were doing what's best for America and Americans, as defined by the fascists. But they're violent fascists who directly attacked the United States Congress and the Vice President of the United States with the intent of lynching them and installing a fascist government. Do you understand that absent a successful counter coup to go around Trump and dod civilian command, other states national guard wouldn't have been allowed in and we could be looking at a much different situation today? OK, Trump was thisclose to being president for life. We're doomed. Fascists are taking over America. Biden will have a horrible presidency. Now, what chance do we have from heavily armed terrorists lynching and installing their government? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Tex, honestly buddy, just go crack a history book on like any revolutionary overthrow of government, ever. A few thousand people are sufficient if enough of the military and police will stand by or support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Just now, StrangeSox said: If Congress and the VP is lynched live on stream at the backing of POTUS, where the fuck do you think we are right now? AT BEST we are living under military rule after a violent counter coup until things can get "sorted out," because at that point Congress and the executive are out of commission. I think the military moves in, arrests Trump, and crushes the uprising. Are you suggesting that any president who wants could take over the government? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 minute ago, StrangeSox said: Tex, honestly buddy, just go crack a history book on like any revolutionary overthrow of government, ever. A few thousand people are sufficient if enough of the military and police will stand by or support it. I do not believe the military will stand by or support it. If you believe they would they could do it any time they want. They could just install a general directly. Y'all think we're close to a revolution, I think we're close to a Biden revival. Mainstream folks se what happens and do not want that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Texsox said: OK, Trump was thisclose to being president for life. We're doomed. Fascists are taking over America. Biden will have a horrible presidency. Now, what chance do we have from heavily armed terrorists lynching and installing their government? Pretty good if you thoroughly crack down on them. Pretty bad if we stick our heads in the sand and pretend Wednesday was no big deal and January 20th will make right wing terrorism disappear. There are plenty of public threat assessments out there of what we are looking at in the coming weeks and months. More private/confidential ones. Nobody who actually knows what they're talking about thinks this is nbd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 12 minutes ago, Texsox said: In less than two weeks Biden will be president. Dems will control both houses. We will survive this. How many Americans do you believe will support a deadly takeover of the government? Will the military just get in line and follow Trump? But OK, how close are we to eliminating our government? If these terrorists had been successful and killed everyone in the capital that day, would Trump be President in two weeks? The real kicker would be if Trump tries to charge Pence for going around him in the chain of command...simply to take the focus away from himself. What happens then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Texsox said: I think the military moves in, arrests Trump, and crushes the uprising. Are you suggesting that any president who wants could take over the government? Which leaves us with a lynched Congress still. You do understand how close they got to murdering some of Congress, right? That this was their explicit intent, yes? That comparisons to civil rights protests are absolutely disgusting, correct? Edited January 10, 2021 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Haha, no big deal, Congress gets lynched and the VP too, the military will break the chain of command and arrest POTUS. Calm down, stop being hysterical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Just now, StrangeSox said: Which leaves us with a lynched Congress still. You do understand how close they got to murdering some of Congress, right? That this was their explicit intent, yes? That comparisons to civil rights protests are absolutely disgusting, correct? I believe we will survive this. Do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Just now, StrangeSox said: Haha, no big deal, Congress gets lynched and the VP too, the military will break the chain of command and arrest POTUS. Calm down, stop being hysterical. I believe we will survive this. Do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Maybe! If enough people are still so naive that we can survive this without actually doing anything about it, pretending it's not actually an existential problem to American democracy, no. Because eventually, the fascist party will gain enough power and deploy enough violence to destroy democratic government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Texsox said: I do not believe the military will stand by or support it. Do you honestly believe the majority of police officers and active duty military are really on Biden’s side? We spent days this week speculating about how many were actually helping the rioters or, at best, benign indifference. As for coups and the military/industrial complex, I guess it depends on your version of 11/22/63 events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 This pot isn’t done boiling - very concerning times we live in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 I believe America will be better off in two years under a Biden administration. Do you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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