2020 Election Thoughts

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

You can keep saying this - but this view is one of the things that is wrong with factions of the democrat party. 100% and all it does is further alienate the situation and increase the divide. 

I'm more ok with "one of the things that is wrong with factions of the DEMOCRATIC PARTY (there is an official name please use it)" being "we're too hard on people for being racist" as opposed to "we have a lot of racists and don't want to do anything about them because they vote with us". 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

It's ironic because the GOP made in roads in Florida how? By calling the Democrats Socialists. Where is the crying to change that name calling?

What is your evidence to support this?

"The Cubans were too stupid to see that Biden wasn't really a socialist" is the entire argument, and again there are a lot of hispanics (colombians as well) in South Florida. It's asinine and disrespectful. Did Venezuelans vote overwhelmingly for Trump? Did Argentinians?

These all encompassing generalizations take away the individuality of the minority voter, and treats them as if they were children who needed to be coddled and told how to act, who to vote for, and what is best for them.

[Soxbadger]

Latest increase on Yahoo in PA has Trump gaining 1,000 votes, Biden gaining 7,000. (those are rough estimates).

If it continues at around 5-1 and there are 1,000,000 votes left Biden can win. 

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

What is your evidence to support this?

"The Cubans were too stupid to see that Biden wasn't really a socialist" is the entire argument, and again there are a lot of hispanics (colombians as well) in South Florida. It's asinine and disrespectful. Did Venezuelans vote overwhelmingly for Trump? Did Argentinians?

These all encompassing generalizations take away the individuality of the minority voter, and treats them as if they were children who needed to be coddled and told how to act, who to vote for, and what is best for them.

If this is the standard,  I would love to see the numbers of Trump voters who picked him because some unknown Democrat called them a racist ( as it wasn’t Biden).

[southsider2k5]

The President is trying to disenfranchise voters.

https://www.facebook.com/173450631129/posts/10158909496231130/

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If this is the standard,  I would love to see the numbers of Trump voters who picked him because some unknown Democrat called them a racist ( as it wasn’t Biden).

It's not just racism; it's this entitled superiority. If you vote for Trump you're stupid, ignorant, racist and don't know shit. I hate Trump; he's a terrible human being who should be in jail for a life filled with fraud and theft but this is a democracy and I am not in a position to yell down anyones pain and tell them how to respond. It's funny, we justify BLM looting because IT IS WARRANTED; it is a reaction to centuries of pain and anger. Yet we can't understand how people left for dead in towns throughout the midwest could also be angry and react in ways that we don't understand

I said this already, but people are not voting based on what the media is telling the world. The people in the rustbelt and the midwest voted the way they did because they've been left behind for generations and the Democrats told them repeatedly they'd take care of them, and be there for them. The Republicans will never be there for them, and they are absolutely the worser of the two BUT the Republicans (Trump) make those elite democrats realllly really angry, and the people who feel they have been betrayed and left to rot by the democrats that promised to support them over the past forty years, and instead supported corporate monopolies and bank fraud, are happy to vote for whoever pisses that side off.

A couple recommended readings on this from very liberal writers:

Matt Taibbi - The Divide
Chris Hedges and Joe Sacco - Days of Destruction, Days of Revolt

 

Edited November 4, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

It's not just racism; it's this entitled superiority. If you vote for Trump you're stupid, ignorant, racist and don't know shit. I hate Trump; he's a terrible human being who should be in jail for a life filled with fraud and theft.

I said this already, but people are not voting based on what the media is telling the world. The people in the rustbelt and the midwest voted the way they did because they've been left behind for generations and the Democrats told them repeatedly they'd take care of them, and be there for them. The Republicans will never be there for them, and they are absolutely the worser of the two BUT the Republicans (Trump) make those elite democrats realllly really angry, and the people who feel they have been betrayed and left to rot by the democrats that promised to support them over the past forty years, and instead supported corporate monopolies and bank fraud, are happy to vote for whoever pisses that side off.

A couple recommended readings on this from very liberal writers:

Matt Taibbi - The Divide
Chris Hedges and Joe Sacco - Days of Destruction, Days of Revolt

 

So no statistics? 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

So no statistics? 

You can read both books; they provide 1000's of stats and countless real world takes and examples from places all around the country.

I can post every note I have from those books if you'd like, but that would clutter up this thread beyond belief.

You asked for something to back up my claim; I post two long, well reviewed, and well documented/researched books and you discredit it because I don't post a MEME or stat? Come on dude.

Edited November 4, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

It's not just racism; it's this entitled superiority. If you vote for Trump you're stupid, ignorant, racist and don't know shit. I hate Trump; he's a terrible human being who should be in jail for a life filled with fraud and theft but this is a democracy and I am not in a position to yell down anyones pain and tell them how to respond. It's funny, we justify BLM looting because IT IS WARRANTED; it is a reaction to centuries of pain and anger. Yet we can't understand how people left for dead in towns throughout the midwest could also be angry and react in ways that we don't understand

I said this already, but people are not voting based on what the media is telling the world. The people in the rustbelt and the midwest voted the way they did because they've been left behind for generations and the Democrats told them repeatedly they'd take care of them, and be there for them. The Republicans will never be there for them, and they are absolutely the worser of the two BUT the Republicans (Trump) make those elite democrats realllly really angry, and the people who feel they have been betrayed and left to rot by the democrats that promised to support them over the past forty years, and instead supported corporate monopolies and bank fraud, are happy to vote for whoever pisses that side off.

A couple recommended readings on this from very liberal writers:

Matt Taibbi - The Divide
Chris Hedges and Joe Sacco - Days of Destruction, Days of Revolt

 

And to add to this, I personally love how in one post you decry this as treating people as to stupid to see through political manipulation,  but in the very next post recommend a book that seems to focus on people not being able to see through political manipulation. 

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You can read both books; they provide 1000's of statistics.

I can post every note I have from those books if you'd like, but that would clutter up this thread beyond belief.

You asked for something to back up my claim; I post two long, well reviewed, and well documented/researched books and you discredit it because I don't post a MEME or stat? Come on dude.

I believe that better democrats would be better for the rust belt, business in general, and so on.

I also believe that it is harder to elect them in those areas. I'm in an area now where a current Democratic congressperson seems on pace to lose his election and the constant theme on him was "voted to defund police" and "Socialist" and "supported impeachment". In the next district over, there was a genuine liberal candidate running against a fairly moderate conservative, and the democrat is going to lose that as well. Both a moderate and a fairly liberal candidate are going to lose because of basically the same attacks. So tell me what does work?

[Jose Abreu]

24 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

sigh.... things will never ever change with this attitude. How far right does the "liberal" party in America need to go before people understand it's a problem?

Yes, how exciting was it when all those former republican war mongers came out in support of biden. Really moved the needle.

It's almost like constantly trying to cater to the 3% of Republicans who denounce Trump is worse than attempting to reach out to young and/or minority voters

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

And to add to this, I personally love how in one post you decry this as treating people as to stupid to see through political manipulation,  but in the very next post recommend a book that seems to focus on people not being able to see through political manipulation. 

Neither of those books say people can't see through political manipulation. Those books focus on those who have been left behind after being promised many things, and then shamed as losers who should have done more to succeed in life. From WV, to inner city detroit and chicago, to ND and SD natives.

The fact that you become so off-put and so combative when someone from your supposed "side" points out the many many mistakes and errors over the years has caused a lot of pain that has led to these moments is baffling.

Globalization is fine, when you take care of the people you have stripped of everything.

[southsider2k5]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Neither of those books say people can't see through political manipulation. Those books focus on those who have been left behind after being promised many things, and then shamed as losers who should have done more to succeed in life. From WV, to inner city detroit and chicago, to ND and SD natives.

The fact that you become so off-put and so combative when someone from your supposed "side" points out the many many mistakes and errors over the years has caused a lot of pain that has led to these moments is baffling.

Globalization is fine, when you take care of the people you have stripped of everything.

Nah, it isn't am honest conversation when you can't apply the same standards to different groups.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

I believe that better democrats would be better for the rust belt, business in general, and so on.

I also believe that it is harder to elect them in those areas. I'm in an area now where a current Democratic congressperson seems on pace to lose his election and the constant theme on him was "voted to defund police" and "Socialist" and "supported impeachment". In the next district over, there was a genuine liberal candidate running against a fairly moderate conservative, and the democrat is going to lose that as well. Both a moderate and a fairly liberal candidate are going to lose because of basically the same attacks. So tell me what does work?

I agree with this as well, but I don't blame those people for being hesitant. They have been lied to endlessly. You can change their mind with actions; show them that a huge green new deal comes with new training and opportunities for everyone who was displaced by it's implementation. Show them that taxing the rich is actually beneficial by investing back in those communities and not into corporate bail outs and bank fraud.

Actions speak louder than words, and people are tired of the word fodder from people who have shown them very little love.

[pettie4sox]

I think dems need to embrace the suck before their party becomes so fractured they will never win another election.  Run on the populist policies like Trump did in 2016 mind you and give people a reason to get up and vote.  I swear you ask any Biden supporter or Trump supporter what they like about their candidate and it's all platitudes and cliches.  Zero substantive policies... why is that?  Why do people consistently vote for politicians who generally only remember you once every 2,4, or 6 years?

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I agree with this as well, but I don't blame those people for being hesitant. They have been lied to endlessly. You can change their mind with actions; show them that a huge green new deal comes with new training and opportunities for everyone who was displaced by it's implementation. Show them that taxing the rich is actually beneficial by investing back in those communities and not into corporate bail outs and bank fraud.

Actions speak louder than words, and people are tired of the word fodder from people who have shown them very little love.

I mean, it's hard to enact policies to show that they work if you lose seats campaigning on those policies. You've got that pretty backwards to me? 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Nah, it isn't am honest conversation when you can't apply the same standards to different groups.

What groups? You are missing the point.

Those people voted Democrat for YEARS. They switched, and it's not because they're all racist goons and it certainly isn't because they believe in Trumps fiscal policies and gold toilets. This is what I meant by I hope democrats can self reflect but I think many will be incapable of doing so.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, pettie4sox said:

I think dems need to embrace the suck before their party becomes so fractured they will never win another election.  Run on the populist policies like Trump did in 2016 mind you and give people a reason to get up and vote.  I swear you ask any Biden supporter or Trump supporter what they like about their candidate and it's all platitudes and cliches.  Zero substantive policies... why is that?  Why do people consistently vote for politicians who generally only remember you once every 2,4, or 6 years?

Because our system and our press don't care about substantive policies. When you try to explain substantive policies, you get criticized for boring people. 

If people wanted substantive policies with details, I mean Professor Warren supplied all those things and that's why I voted for her, and she didn't come anywhere close in the primary.

[greg775]

5 minutes ago, pettie4sox said:

I think dems need to embrace the suck before their party becomes so fractured they will never win another election.  Run on the populist policies like Trump did in 2016 mind you and give people a reason to get up and vote.  I swear you ask any Biden supporter or Trump supporter what they like about their candidate and it's all platitudes and cliches.  Zero substantive policies... why is that?  Why do people consistently vote for politicians who generally only remember you once every 2,4, or 6 years?

All this angst seems silly with Joe having won this election. Weird. If he stays healthy IMO he gets 8 years. Probably more likely he will go four years max (pray for good health) then give way to Kamala/AOC for eight. AOC will be old enough to run in 2024 or be VEEP more likely. Then it's her turn for eight. So I don't understand questioning the Demos philosophy when it looks like we'll have a Demo president for many years to come. Just my take. How can anybody suggest the Democrats are not in great shape for the future? 

Somebody said Joe's popular vote total is huge, maybe the most in history.

Edited November 4, 2020 by greg775

[pettie4sox]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Because our system and our press don't care about substantive policies. When you try to explain substantive policies, you get criticized for boring people. 

If people wanted substantive policies with details, I mean Professor Warren supplied all those things and that's why I voted for her, and she didn't come anywhere close in the primary.

That's because she was a wishy washy candidate that was always after the flavor of the month.  She never came across genuine at all.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I mean, it's hard to enact policies to show that they work if you lose seats campaigning on those policies. You've got that pretty backwards to me? 

Balta, Democrats have been in power plenty over the last 30 years. Let's stop pretending like they have had their hands tied for 30 years while trying to help the people in need. That's nonsense. Clinton deregulated wall street - Obama decriminalized theft by corporations and banks. Clinton passed the Crime bill. Obama enhanced immigration policy to the point of exploitation by trump. NAFTA destroyed thousands of lives in the midwest, and I'm not saying trade agreements are terrible; Im saying you HAVE TO HAVE A PLAN to take care of those who you are leaving behind while moving forward. You can't just let generations die and lose all hope.

Edited November 4, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[pettie4sox]

1 minute ago, greg775 said:

All this angst seems silly with Joe having won this election. Weird. If he stays healthy IMO he gets 8 years. Probably more likely he will go four years max (pray for good health) then give way to Kamala/AOC for eight. AOC will be old enough to run in 2024 or be VEEP more likely. Then it's her turn. So I don't understand questioning the Demos philosophy when it looks like we'll have a Demo president for many years to come. Just my take.

I'm going to respond at my own peril but greg the reality of the matter is, any other president in this particular predicament would have been crushed by a reasonable candidate.  The fact that the corpse of Joe Biden is barely beating DJT at this moment is pretty amazing.  He did nothing but sit around and let Trump sink himself.

[Jose Abreu]

Maybe some didn't come out for Biden because he doesn't represent what they want? Being "not Trump" isn't enough for all voters. You can't use the Biden/Trump results to argue against progressivism. The idea that progressives will go out in droves to vote for corporate Democrats has never made sense to me

Edited November 4, 2020 by Jose Abreu

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

In debates on a national level, we ask candidates every year "how are you going to capture the black vote... the latino vote." That question alone is incredibly disrespectful IMO.

My wife doesn't really do politics, but she watched a debate with me where that was a question and her response was classic:

"I don't even agree with my cousins or mom on what movies to watch, (let alone) abortion and safety nets. They think we just agree on everything?"

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, pettie4sox said:

That's because she was a wishy washy candidate that was always after the flavor of the month.  She never came across genuine at all.

The f***? Like I said, you see the response you get for having policy after policy after policy. That doesn't even make sense, but people somehow believed it.