southsider2k5 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 1 minute ago, mqr said: Uh, the Trump campaign is just declaring themselves winners in PA Does anyone want to say outloud that by doing this the President is largely disenfranchising the military vote which doesn't show up for a long time after election day? Or can he finally admit that military is just a convenient prop when usable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 1 minute ago, TaylorStSox said: The resistance to Sanders, and socialism in general, is a generational issue. We're still a few years away. There are still too many active voters who grew up during the Cold War. I believe 64% of Millenials view socialism positively. We'll get there in time. Bernie Sanders is not a socialist. Bernie Sanders is literally just fighting to restore a system similar to that which existed pre-Reagan for the most part. He still believes in capitalism, he merely thinks it needs extreme checks and balances - which it does! - and that wealth distribution is broken and needs to be reworked. Profit cannot be the sole driver of business - this was literally already shown to use in the Gilded Age 130 years ago. Bernie doesn't want corporations to strip workers rights and etc. These aren't socialist policies IMO. He also thinks health care is a universal right which is not socialist to me; it's just being reasonable and empathetic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Bernie Sanders is not a socialist. Bernie Sanders is literally just fighting to restore a system similar to that which existed pre-Reagan for the most part. He still believes in capitalism, he merely thinks it needs extreme checks and balances - which it does! - and that wealth distribution is broken and needs to be reworked. Profit cannot be the sole driver of business - this was literally already shown to use in the Gilded Age 130 years ago. Bernie doesn't want corporations to strip workers rights and etc. These aren't socialist policies IMO. He also thinks health care is a universal right which is not socialist to me; it's just being reasonable and empathetic. College was free back then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said: Ray ray defending looting and rioting once again. Surprise surprise. It's possible to be against looting and rioting while ALSO not excusing greed and white color crime from billionaires. I've explained this before, but while I view theft as a morally wrong choice that is because I'm privileged enough to view it that way. I've never felt that I was deprived of things - whether food or supplies or technology - that the masses had. It doesn't anger me that people who have been denied basic liberties and hope over 150 years are expressing themselves in ways that make me uncomfortable. Instead of judging actions, I have chosen to analyze the root cause of their desperation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Just now, Yearnin' for Yermin said: College was free back then? In relative to the costs today? Uh yeah, a college education back then had a ROI over about 10,000% over a lifetime. The ROI on a college education today is under water for many students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said: Yeah, and Trump has denounced White Supremacists about 30 times. But no one cared about him saying that. Biden and some Dems denounced the rioting, but didn't take a hard enough stance against it. Cities were getting ransacked but the Dems didn't want to accept aid from the national guard on behalf of Trump, strictly because it was from Trump. Are you still holding out hope for a Trump win? Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, pettie4sox said: You are not trying to win republican voters as much as you're trying to get the non voters off their butts to vote for you. There is a huge untapped market of people who simply don't vote that the dems have refused to tap into for whatever reason. Then where are the elections that suggest leftist populism is a way to mobilize them? So far in my lifetime I’ve seen 2 candidates actually mobilize lots of democrats in a general election. Obama and Biden. Where are all the new primary voters and why couldn’t they lift Sanders? Why aren’t they winning R +5 districts somewhere? Because that effect is small, and the attacks on them are effective in general elections. At the least, “too liberal” ads work well to suppress that vote share and keep them non voting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Why doesn't the GOP hold the President to that standard, and why doesn't the voters of Law and Order punish them for it? I don't know. I've never been a member of the grand old party. I'm thinking of issues that can flip a few percentage points of voters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said: College was free back then? No, but people could reasonably expect to pay for it themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said: Ray ray defending looting and rioting once again. Surprise surprise. It's possible to be against looting and rioting while ALSO not excusing greed and white color crime from billionaires. And this would be fine, if I saw you as outraged about Steve Cohen buying the Mets as you are about Tom stealing bread from the safeway. Fact is, people are much more angry at poor people for stealing. It's baffling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said: College was free back then? Currently we provide 13 years of education for free. Is expanding that another 2 or 4 years really that radical of an idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 I got to say, I've been very impressed by how cordial and respectful the conversation has been here and it gives me hope - however micro - for the future of discord throughout the country! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Bernie Sanders is not a socialist. Bernie Sanders is literally just fighting to restore a system similar to that which existed pre-Reagan for the most part. He still believes in capitalism, he merely thinks it needs extreme checks and balances - which it does! - and that wealth distribution is broken and needs to be reworked. Profit cannot be the sole driver of business - this was literally already shown to use in the Gilded Age 130 years ago. Bernie doesn't want corporations to strip workers rights and etc. These aren't socialist policies IMO. He also thinks health care is a universal right which is not socialist to me; it's just being reasonable and empathetic. The de facto leader of the Democratic Socialist party isn't a Socialist? Well, alright then. I suppose Trotsky wasn't a Socialist since he was wasn't a Stalinist either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettie4sox Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Then where are the elections that suggest leftist populism is a way to mobilize them? So far in my lifetime I’ve seen 2 candidates actually mobilize lots of democrats in a general election. Obama and Biden. Where are all the new primary voters and why couldn’t they lift Sanders? Why aren’t they winning R +5 districts somewhere? Because that effect is small, and the attacks on them are effective in general elections. At the least, “too liberal” ads work well to suppress that vote share and keep them non voting. That's the crazy thing because both Obama and Biden ran as populist and governed like typical establishment democrats. They are responsible for what happened in 2016 because of how they governed... They sold people a pack of lies and the suckers just ate it like crunch bar. You act like there is a ton of these BS type dsa candidates all over the place. You do realize the dnc probably doesn't even want them under their umbrella, right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: Does no one want to tell them they're losing? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: The de facto leader of the Democratic Socialist party isn't a Socialist? Well, alright then. I suppose Trotsky wasn't a Socialist since he was wasn't a Stalinist either. Words meanings actually matter. I know people just enjoy making up new meanings, but it doesn't make them true. Socialism is the collective ownership of production and distribution; regulated by "the people' and not government policy. By no means has Sanders have promoted the changing of ownership to be an entirely collective effort. Unless you think unions are socialist, give it a rest. Edited November 4, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: So far in my lifetime I’ve seen 2 candidates actually mobilize lots of democrats in a general election. Obama and Biden. Where are all the new primary voters and why couldn’t they lift Sanders? Why aren’t they winning R +5 districts somewhere? Do you really believe that the turnout record this year was because people were passionate about Joe Biden, and not because people were either strongly for or against Trump? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Trump was correct about one thing. It's Nov. 4th and nobody is talking about Covid. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 11 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Are you still holding out hope for a Trump win? Lol As long as the election was conducted fairly and balanced, I am ok with it. If there was any fraudulent voting I'm not OK with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Words meanings actually matter. I know people just enjoy making up new meanings, but it doesn't make them true. Socialism is the collective ownership of production and distribution; regulated by "the people' and not government policy. By no means has Sanders have promoted the changing of ownership to be an entirely collective effort. There are around 12 different active interpretations of Socialism. Democratic Socialism is one. It's certainly not as stringent as Anarchism, but it's Socialism nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said: As long as the election was conducted fairly and balanced, I am ok with it. If there was any fraudulent voting I'm not OK with it Probably should be upset with the President trying to stop valid ballots from being counted, especially from military members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said: Do you really believe that the turnout record this year was because people were passionate about Joe Biden, and not because people were either strongly for or against Trump? So the argument that moving left is the only way to expand turnout? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Trump was correct about one thing. It's Nov. 4th and nobody is talking about Covid. 93k cases and 1150 deaths yesterday. We may top 110k on Friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettie4sox Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: So the argument that moving left is the only way to expand turnout? The argument is stand for something, anything, at this point because dems are the epitome of empty suits. I stand here wanting to bash my head against wall because they keep trotting out the same BS expecting to work. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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