2020 Election Thoughts

[southsider2k5]

8 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

 

 

Fwiw

 

[Jose Abreu]

26 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

So your job is not to run Sanders or AOC and watch the attacks become effective.

It’s to get the grass roots work done to build support for years. Decades even.

 ”I agree with you 100%. Now make me do it.”

It just seems like an impossible ask. Corporate interests and capitalist media are just too massive to effectively counter in the short-term. I mean, Sanders was leading the primaries after Nevada, and MSNBC of all organizations was literally comparing him and his supporters to Hitler. By the time we reach the point you're referring to, I'm not sure the planet will even be largely inhabitable. 

 

Genuine question for you, and/or @Soxbadger, and correct me if my assumption is wrong:

Why do you look at these election results and think "good, the Democrats made the right call, no other candidate could have done this"? 

Yes, Biden is going to win, but he's eking out a victory against a consensus bottom-five president in U.S. history. Yes, much of that is due to the outdated electoral college, but nevertheless, the relatively narrow margin of victory is one that I would be embarrassed or at least uneasy about if I were a Democrat, not one that I would be proud of.

[mqr]

6 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

It just seems like an impossible ask. Corporate interests and capitalist media are just too massive to effectively counter in the short-term. I mean, Sanders was leading the primaries after Nevada, and MSNBC of all organizations was literally comparing him and his supporters to Hitler. By the time we reach the point you're referring to, I'm not sure the planet will even be largely inhabitable. 

 

Genuine question for you, and/or @Soxbadger, and correct me if my assumption is wrong:

Why do you look at these election results and think "good, the Democrats made the right call, no other candidate could have done this"? 

Yes, Biden is going to win, but he's eking out a victory against a consensus bottom-five president in U.S. history. Yes, much of that is due to the outdated electoral college, but nevertheless, the relatively narrow margin of victory is one that I would be embarrassed or at least uneasy about if I were a Democrat, not one that I would be proud of.

Going with an old Centrist is also why they got dong whipped down ballot.

Pete is a centrist too but I think he would have done better down ballot. 

[pettie4sox]

Just now, mqr said:

Going with an old Centrist is also why they got dong whipped down ballot.

Pete is a centrist too but I think he would have done better down ballot. 

Republicans are unapologetically themselves.  That's why their base turns out the way they do.  You really don't know what democrats stand for.  I'm not trump and I'm not banning fracking is hardly policy.

[Chicago White Sox]

11 minutes ago, whitesoxfan99 said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/OxfordDiplomat/status/1324335412865863682

It is amazing what has happened to the Republican Party in the last 12 years.  And Trump is a symptom not a cause.  Thank you Fox News and social media for ruining this country.

Great post.

[southsider2k5]

22,576 in PA

[Soxbadger]

39 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

It just seems like an impossible ask. Corporate interests and capitalist media are just too massive to effectively counter in the short-term. I mean, Sanders was leading the primaries after Nevada, and MSNBC of all organizations was literally comparing him and his supporters to Hitler. By the time we reach the point you're referring to, I'm not sure the planet will even be largely inhabitable. 

 

Genuine question for you, and/or @Soxbadger, and correct me if my assumption is wrong:

Why do you look at these election results and think "good, the Democrats made the right call, no other candidate could have done this"? 

Yes, Biden is going to win, but he's eking out a victory against a consensus bottom-five president in U.S. history. Yes, much of that is due to the outdated electoral college, but nevertheless, the relatively narrow margin of victory is one that I would be embarrassed or at least uneasy about if I were a Democrat, not one that I would be proud of.

"Why do I think "good they made the right call?"

Because the most important thing to me was removing Donald Trump. His form of "Americanism" is the antithesis of mine. Making sure Trump lost was the primary goal. Right now the conditions for that are favorable. Always look for ways to improve, but be happy with what you get.

"No other candidate could have done it?"

Who knows, maybe Bernie/Warren whoever could have won. But I believe that Biden presented the best opportunity to win. That is the way that I read the American country right now. I think there were a lot of reasonable Republicans who were done with Trump. Many people think (I didnt even intend to use Trump's phrase.) that Trump makes them look like idiots. A lot of moderate GOP have a lot of pride in America, many of them are educated. I think some of them realized that Trump was a mistake. Are they going to full swing liberal this election? I doubt it. But, im pretty sure the numbers right now show Biden performed better against Trump with non-minorities. Just regular every day people are sick of the carnival show. I think Biden does better than any other candidate with those voters. 

Could a more liberal candidate possibly have driven new more liberal voters? Maybe but I think unlikely. Biden will get the most votes in history. Its hard to imagine another candidate getting an even bigger turn out. If the more liberal wing of Democrats wants me to back them, they need to show me some wins in MI, WI, PA,. If they start winning in more moderate states or R states, you will see the party back them. 

"Yes, Biden is going to win, but he's eking out a victory against a consensus bottom-five president in U.S. history. Yes, much of that is due to the outdated electoral college, but nevertheless, the relatively narrow margin of victory is one that I would be embarrassed or at least uneasy about if I were a Democrat, not one that I would be proud of."

Beating an incumbent is tough. The electoral college creates a small picture of states that have value. Trump has a lot of votes. That is a lot of support. People could have easily not voted at all and just sat it out. 

Proud of? 

I have no part in any of this. I have my beliefs on what I think is the best way to run government. I hope that the world will move that way. When it moves that way a little bit, I am happy. I have no real impact in any of this. Id love if tomorrow I woke up and the world was exactly how I want. But I also know that it may be a really long process. Even the smallest victory is worth more than a loss. 

TLDR You take even a small win when you can get it. 

 

Edited November 6, 2020 by Soxbadger

[southsider2k5]

Good night all.

 

[Jose Abreu]

9 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

"Why do I think "good they made the right call?"

Because the most important thing to me was removing Donald Trump. His form of "Americanism" is the anti-thesis of mine. Making sure Trump lost was the primary goal. Right now the conditions for that are favorable. Always look for ways to improve, but be happy with what you get.

"No other candidate could have done it?"

Who knows, maybe Bernie/Warren whoever could have won. But I believe that Biden presented the best opportunity to win. That is the way that I read the American country right now. I think there were a lot of reasonable Republicans who were done with Trump. Many people think (I didnt even intend to use Trump's phrase.) that Trump makes them look like idiots. A lot of moderate GOP have a lot of pride in America, many of them are educated. I think some of them realized that Trump was a mistake. Are they going to full swing liberal this election? I doubt it. But, im pretty sure the numbers right now show Biden performed better against Trump with non-minorities. Just regular every day people are sick of the carnival show. I think Biden does better than any other candidate with those voters. 

Could a more liberal candidate possibly have driven new more liberal voters? Maybe but I think unlikely. Biden will get the most votes in history. Its hard to imagine another candidate getting an even bigger turn out. If the more liberal wing of Democrats wants me to back them, they need to show me some wins in MI, WI, PA,. If they start winning in more moderate states or R states, you will see the party back them. 

"Yes, Biden is going to win, but he's eking out a victory against a consensus bottom-five president in U.S. history. Yes, much of that is due to the outdated electoral college, but nevertheless, the relatively narrow margin of victory is one that I would be embarrassed or at least uneasy about if I were a Democrat, not one that I would be proud of."

Beating an incumbent is tough. The electoral college creates a small picture of states that have value. Trump has a lot of votes. That is a lot of support. People could have easily not voted at all and just sat it out. 

Proud of? 

I have no part in any of this. I have my beliefs on what I think is the best way to run government. I hope that the world will move that way. When it moves that way a little bit, I am happy. I have no real impact in any of this. Id love if tomorrow I woke up and the world was exactly how I want. But I also know that it may be a really long process. Even the smallest victory is worth more than a loss. 

TLDR You take even a small win when you can get it. 

 

Thank you. I obviously don't 100% agree, but I understand your point of view and appreciate the response

[joejoesox]

sorry if this has been posted, I'm a few pages back

these folks are fucking psycho lol

https://abc3340.com/news/local/alabama-police-chief-on-social-media-about-biden-voters-put-a-bullet-in-their-skull

FLOMATON, Ala. (WPMI) —An Alabama police captain is under investigation after making political and potentially dangerous comments on Facebook referring to supporters of former Vice President Joe Biden.

On his personal Facebook page, Flomaton Police Captain Scott Walden reacted to a post critical of people who voted for Biden saying, "They need to line up ev1 of them and put a bullet in their skull for treason."

[mqr]

who was saying Covid didn’t hurt Trump they way people keep saying?

[Soxbadger]

5 minutes ago, mqr said:

who was saying Covid didn’t hurt Trump they way people keep saying?

Herman Cain died and his family still posted against covid. A certain part of America doesn't care about covid and even when they get it many still dont care. They care about their small restaurant and family it supports. They see the Dems as why they lost their job.

Trump supporters came out huge because covid wrecked their life and its the Democrats fault.

Polarizing was good for him. 

[Jose Abreu]

12 minutes ago, joesaiditstrue said:

sorry if this has been posted, I'm a few pages back

these folks are fucking psycho lol

 https://abc3340.com/news/local/alabama-police-chief-on-social-media-about-biden-voters-put-a-bullet-in-their-skull

 

 

It truly terrifies me that so many of these deranged domestic terrorism threats are police officers

[greg775]

10 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Did you attend Trump University?

Did you see tonight the Portland mob went to the house of a city commissioner to kill him and burn his house down for his vote today? Deny it all your want, folks, it's happening. Check Andy Ngo's twitter video. Tex please send me a pic of that revolver I need to buy again. Yes I'm scared. Please Mr. Biden, solve this mess during your 4-8 years! Too much anger in America; too many government official allowing the mobs to do as they please. SCARY folks.

Edited November 6, 2020 by greg775

[Danny Dravot]

6 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Did you see tonight the Portland mob went to the house of a city commissioner to kill him and burn his house down for his vote today? Deny it all your want, folks, it's happening. Check Andy Ngo's twitter video. Tex please send me a pic of that revolver I need to buy again. Yes I'm scared. Please Mr. Biden, solve this mess during your 4-8 years! Too much anger in America; too many government official allowing the mobs to do as they please. SCARY folks.

As a gun owner, please don’t buy a gun.

[Danny Dravot]

1 hour ago, Jose Abreu said:

It just seems like an impossible ask. Corporate interests and capitalist media are just too massive to effectively counter in the short-term. I mean, Sanders was leading the primaries after Nevada, and MSNBC of all organizations was literally comparing him and his supporters to Hitler. By the time we reach the point you're referring to, I'm not sure the planet will even be largely inhabitable. 

 

Genuine question for you, and/or @Soxbadger, and correct me if my assumption is wrong:

Why do you look at these election results and think "good, the Democrats made the right call, no other candidate could have done this"? 

Yes, Biden is going to win, but he's eking out a victory against a consensus bottom-five president in U.S. history. Yes, much of that is due to the outdated electoral college, but nevertheless, the relatively narrow margin of victory is one that I would be embarrassed or at least uneasy about if I were a Democrat, not one that I would be proud of.

If I can answer this too, it’s because the center is big.

The Bernie bros are mostly going to vote for Biden because they hate Trump. Is Joe gonna give them everything they want? Probably not, but he’s better than Trump. The guy who doesn’t like Trump but also dislikes the far left will vote for Biden too. I can’t speak for everyone, but I would have left the top block blank if Bernie or Warren were the nominee. I would have sucked it up for Biden, Buttigieg, Harris, or Klobuchar.

I don’t think anyone does better than Biden (Butt/Klo/Harris probably lose a few votes but maybe still prevail). I think Bernie and Warren get clobbered in the general.

Democrats made the right choice.

[Danny Dravot]

1 hour ago, joesaiditstrue said:

the reason they have a difficult time winning largely stems from the massive amount of propaganda that is spewed about them on network television.  people actually think Sanders wants the government to take over the means of production and run everything like Stalin, it's fucking absurd.  AOC has had to kiss corporate ass to remain relevant in her own party.

I don’t think that at all. But picking some of the easy fruit from his own website, he wants M4A (incl elimination of current debt), college for all (incl elimination of current debt), housing for all, free childcare and pre-K for all, high speed internet for all, banking for all, and jobs for all. Setting aside that his wealth tax is unjust and wouldn’t stand up in court, this all costs money. I put my financial situation into a tax calculator before the election in 2016 and it informed me that Trump would lower my bill by about $100 a month (which proved accurate), Hillary would raise it by about the same, and Bernie would raise it about $1,000. My wife and I are middle class. I’m fine with a limited welfare state, I’m fine with Hillary-level tax hikes to prevent suffering, but Bernie is over the top, even if it’s not Stalinism.

[ron883]

1 hour ago, whitesoxfan99 said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/OxfordDiplomat/status/1324335412865863682

It is amazing what has happened to the Republican Party in the last 12 years.  And Trump is a symptom not a cause.  Thank you Fox News and social media for ruining this country.

You're welcome to leave. Where would you like to go? Venezuela?

[hi8is]

18 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

You're welcome to leave. Where would you like to go? Venezuela?

Yea, let him just pull the hundreds of thousands of dollars necessary for citizenship from another country out of his ass.

It’s not just as simple as leaving.

[BFirebird]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

Did you see tonight the Portland mob went to the house of a city commissioner to kill him and burn his house down for his vote today? Deny it all your want, folks, it's happening. Check Andy Ngo's twitter video. Tex please send me a pic of that revolver I need to buy again. Yes I'm scared. Please Mr. Biden, solve this mess during your 4-8 years! Too much anger in America; too many government official allowing the mobs to do as they please. SCARY folks.

While Antifa is a pretty extreme group, I don’t think following Andy Ngo is a reliable source for anything. Guy is a noted far right sympathizer who tries to antagonize antifa all the time. Exactly what they want as anarchists that want to destroy American democracy.  They don’t like Trump or Biden or any politician at all for that matter. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2019/7/3/20677645/antifa-portland-andy-ngo-proud-boys

[caulfield12]

From eand.co comments section, I thought this was one of the better opinions shared...I know, TLDR

 

Now for what we did wrong, but first I acknowledge that some of you won’t agree with my assessment and that’s okay, my opinion may stink like everyone else’s, but I hope that at least you will be open minded enough to consider it and be self-reflective enough to consider a different path forward, out of the divisiveness, based on at least some of what I’m bringing up. It started with the fact that we couldn’t accept he won four years ago. Rather than look at many of the legitimate reasons for his victory, we ascribed nefarious and negative reasons for it; Russian Collusion, Sexism, Illegitimacy of winning just by virtue of Electoral College win, his Lies, uneducated/deplorable white males, etc.... We never acknowledged that people had the right to choose him as a leader regardless of how distasteful he was to the rest of us. Many people denigrated half of our country for 4 years calling them stupid, uncaring, racist, sexist, etc, worse yet, that attitude was amplified by almost every large Traditional and Social Media source — A LOT, on most days, incessantly, for FOUR YEARS. regardless of whether or not we agree with much of what was said, we BROWBEAT HALF of our FELLOW COUNTRYMEN... I’m certain most of you know that there are MUCH better ways of attracting more flies (bees?) than with vinegar. We had a 4 year tantrum and we should now be able to see how much good that did us. Consider now how much LESS trusted traditional media outlets are. Many people now have retreated to a place where what we read serves to only feed our confirmation bias, and there is NO universally trusted source of information. Ask yourself what may have been the public’s reaction if traditional Media had simply covered trump’s ridiculous tweets by simply putting them on screen for more exposure, and perhaps having a trusted non-partisan scientist, or legal authority, or former govt official to dispute any factual inaccuracies (with perhaps a second opinion as well), injecting as little “commentary” as possible. What if these large Media conglomerates didn’t keep fostering the division themselves, because they were beside themselves because their side lost, or perhaps because they faced having so many of their favorite political contacts/sources thrown out of positions of authority, making their job harder ? Or do you think their commentary and coverage was the way it was simply because it generated so much viewership ? In any case, no one who voted for trump wanted to experience 4 years of sour grapes, four years of constant berating, four years of being told they were just BAD people. Not to mention how much other news we never saw in deference to the onslaught of trump.

 

Let’s be INTROSPECTIVE here, so we can learn and grow, and also so we can look with out hypocrisy towards what may come next... First, let’s not expect because our guy won that simply things will improve. The tone was set last time, and I’m assuming that a certain portion of HIS side will do the same thing that they felt was done to them for 4 years, minus a significant amount of traditional media’s opinion. Let’s be understanding and graceful in victory in a way we weren’t in defeat, even if they are just as petulant as we were. Let’s address issues that may have drawn them to him on which we can find common ground (I will endeavor to write about a few issues, soon, where I think both sides can be satisfied where previously people assumed we were at loggerheads)... Let’s stop making overly generalized, negative assumptions about our Friends, Neighbors, Family, and other Countrymen, simply based on who they voted for. Let’s stay away from words that make others assume things about what our intentions are before we have a chance to explain ourselves. We start off many conversations with buzzwords and labels that throw up barriers between us; it gets us no where. Are you talking with people to “beat” them with an argument, or are you hoping to educate them and offer a perspective that may get them to re-examine their own thoughts ? The way we’ve been trying to do things for the last 4 years has not resulted in the winning of hearts and minds with better ideas, it’s been a street fight, And I fear if we don’t do better it will get bloodier..."

[joejoesox]

1 hour ago, Danny Dravot said:

I don’t think that at all. But picking some of the easy fruit from his own website, he wants M4A (incl elimination of current debt), college for all (incl elimination of current debt), housing for all, free childcare and pre-K for all, high speed internet for all, banking for all, and jobs for all. Setting aside that his wealth tax is unjust and wouldn’t stand up in court, this all costs money. I put my financial situation into a tax calculator before the election in 2016 and it informed me that Trump would lower my bill by about $100 a month (which proved accurate), Hillary would raise it by about the same, and Bernie would raise it about $1,000. My wife and I are middle class. I’m fine with a limited welfare state, I’m fine with Hillary-level tax hikes to prevent suffering, but Bernie is over the top, even if it’s not Stalinism.

You should check out Stephanie Kelton, and Modern Monetary Theory

To put forward free public college, universal healthcare, and the other policies Sanders advocates, your taxes don't necessarily have to be jacked up.  Yes, they would increase somewhat.  But the deficit hawks would like you to believe that it's impossible without jacking everyone's taxes up another 25% and it just isn't factually true

I'd love to go into this more with you if you would like, but if you have any spare time I would highly encourage you and anyone else interested in this to check out this video (I have other interviews she has done bookmarked but I'm tired and I'll post them tomorrow lol)

 

[joejoesox]

Biden took the lead in GA.

 

[caulfield12]

PA at 18,000 lead for Trump with 97% reporting...

but it’s all over if AZ, NV and GA hold up.

[Texsox]

6 hours ago, Danny Dravot said:

As a gun owner, please don’t buy a gun.

G7 is just putting on his sock puppet to toss in a load of hyperbole with a sprinkle of sarcasm. 

Best of luck there in Kansas. Them farmers are going to be rioting when they feel marginalized, without a voice, no power or even access to power, and the whole country against them. Soon they will feel the entire system is rigged to keep them down and they just can't win. Then if a police officer or two gets a little nervous and scared in the face of a farmer the police may shoot one or two of them then it will be hell in Kansas. But  you already know that which is why you are crying out for some help.

I'm humbled that G7 is looking to old Tex for some help when the chips are down. Ironically my keyboard keeps wanting to type cops when I was swiping chips. Whoo-e that's scary ain't it?

Now I might be changing my opinion from an earlier post but a Smith & Wesson M&P 9 would be a great choice. You better hurry down to a gun store because Biden will take away everyone's right to a little iron. And get yourself plenty of ammo because it's going to be in very short supply. 

You're also going to need fortification on your home. Personally a backyard bunker makes the most sense but bulletproof glass or brick in your windows is a great start. Then a sealed off panic room somewhere inside. Make certain no radio waves or wifi signal can get in or out for extra security. And get yourself a haircut before going in, it could be a long time.

And don't forget food. Biden's socialist agenda will cause massive food shortages. For single guys I'm a big fan of charro beans and Tabasco for survival food. Pro tip, have enough tp on hand with that diet.

Keep your head down, don't be a hero.