MLB 2020-21 off season catch all

[michelangelosmonkey]

41 minutes ago, Tony said:

I don't need to be told how to be a fan, but thanks. As others have mentioned, it's possible for multiple things to be true. We can be excited for this season while also frustrated with how the last 5 months have been handled. Additionally, when I hear the Front Office talk about trying to become the 90's Braves with young players continuing to emerge and always being the playoff mix.......I'm sorry that a roll my eyes given the success rate of this current regime. 

Why do you want to be a White Sox fan if you hate everything about the organization?   i get how frustrating it must have been this off season for you with getting only two Cy Young candidates, a Hall of Fame manager, four top fifty prospects joining the team, some of the top young coaching minds and adding a solid right fielder to the playoff team.  Stupid, horrid White Sox.     

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Why do you want to be a White Sox fan if you hate everything about the organization?   i get how frustrating it must have been this off season for you with getting only two Cy Young candidates, a Hall of Fame manager, four top fifty prospects joining the team, some of the top young coaching minds and adding a solid right fielder to the playoff team.  Stupid, horrid White Sox.     

Did you just call Carlos Rodon a cy young candidate?

[michelangelosmonkey]

40 minutes ago, Rounding_Third said:

So a pitcher who just turned 30 is "aging".  Too funny!!!!   Most people consider that back end prime but whatever!  List all the analytics you want, I have no problem with a pitcher who keeps his era near or under 4 over 175+ innings year after year except the only one he didn't out of last 7 that you've chosen to define him by (ignoring his covid 2020).  Somehow he must have done something right; right up through 2019.  And no, I didn't say Rodon or Teheran, you turned it into that.  I said no reason to not look at Terehan for free. That's zero risk, zero cost.  Basically if sizing up Rodon for $3m why not Teheran for free.  Its a very simple concept, repeat after me, "Free is good".

I agree the Sox plan appears to be a trade, if/when needed.  At least I hope so.  I just hope they're prepared to deal early (May), if needed.  Their immediate depth is a 5 year injury case (Rodon), a 2 year 6ish era (Lopez), and an unproven youngster who got pounded in his limited time (Stiever).  After that its a crapshoot.  The old adage of "you can't win a pennant (playoffs) in April but you could lose one" has never been more in play than with this team right now with its pathetic rotation depth.  More is better, honest!

Wow so you want to die on the Teheran hill?   Yes 30 is on the downside of a pitchers career...and especially looks bad on a guy who hasn't been "good" since 2016. While he is "free" the point is you have a limited number of pitchers you can have on your roster.  It's so ridiculous that Stiever was "pounded" last year (one bad inning actually), Lopez is garbage with his 6 ERA but Teheran who had a 10 ERA is fine to bring in.   More Teheran is not better...it is a sign of desperation for a bad team...honest.     

[michelangelosmonkey]

7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Did you just call Carlos Rodon a cy young candidate?

No I said Lynn and Hendricks were both Cy Young candidates from last season.  

[Balta1701]

8 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

No I said Lynn and Hendricks were both Cy Young candidates from last season.  

Gotcha. "Got cy young votes" would have been more accurate as neither of them were in the final 3, and a closer wasn't really a candidate even though he got a handful of 3rd place votes.

[michelangelosmonkey]

44 minutes ago, The Beast said:

My fear is that he won’t spend the kind of money needed to go get the guys they need to fill in the gaps or bring the team to the next level. I think some on this site are extremely high on prospects but they can trade some away and get some proven players. I haven’t seen him play and don’t know much about him, but is Vaughn really good? What happens if one of the arms in the rotation goes down? From a depth perspective I wish they would have signed another starter not named Rodon when more were out there and I would have liked a major league hitter come to DH even with what happened with Encarnacion. But we will see what happens and where they could have done better as the season rolls on.

Don't be afraid...it's spring...its the time to be optimistic.   You say our depth is bad and I look at the best 26 man roster I've ever seen with the White Sox.   Leury Garcia and Adam Engel seem like professional back ups, Collins and Mendick both offer interesting skill sets as back ups.  As for the spending of money...OK, it's frustrating that we can't sign a $300 million contract...but I remember when Bill Veeck couldn't meet the payroll.  We've had top five payrolls under JR so it's just pessimism to say it won't happen again.  As for Vaughn...just wait!!!  

 

[michelangelosmonkey]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Gotcha. "Got cy young votes" would have been more accurate as neither of them were in the final 3, and a closer wasn't really a candidate even though he got a handful of 3rd place votes.

That's fair...would you have been ok with "We got a top ten starting pitcher in baseball and the best relief pitcher in baseball"?  I can't understand why people aren't more excited about this.  Teheran gets more love on here than Lance Lynn.  

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

That's fair...would you have been ok with "We got a top ten starting pitcher in baseball and the best relief pitcher in baseball"?  I can't understand why people aren't more excited about this.  Teheran gets more love on here than Lance Lynn.  

Those would have been fair and accurate based on last year. I read your line about adding 2 cy young candidates and legitimately had no idea who you meant by the second.

[poppysox]

5 hours ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Frustration is premature.   I think it is clear that the White Sox have a plan and its execution has not been flawless...but nearly.  Last year they signed Keuchel and Grandal...and brought up Robert, Madrigal, Foster, Heuer and Crochett...and they went to the playoffs.  This year they got Lynn, Hendricks and Eaton and will bring up Kopech and Vaughn.  And what you and others are angry about...not pushing all the chips in now...I think is an asset...they have kept their power dry.  We have only traded one of our top 30 prospects and really haven't spent much money.  JR, in spite the propaganda, had top five payrolls in the 2000's, 1990's and 1980's WHEN the teams were good.  Why would we believe hei won't do it again?   Our tradeable assets aren't worth what they should have been because of COVID...a year ago we thought of the Rutherford, Adolfo and Lugo at least one was going to have a leap forward year...and then there was no season.   Same can be said for all of the top 30...there will be at least ten of them that will be worth much more at the trade deadline than they are right now.   As for the missed opportunities...What happens if Cease is great...and Kopech is great...and we just spent all of our Gio extension money on Bauer...who in my mind has some real questions.  Why sign Springer who you would have to pay the centerfielder premium for...when you want to play him in RF?   Why pay for Brantley or Cruz when Vaughn could be better than either.  Let's watch how the things evolve and then at the trade deadline you can push in the chips when you have a better idea the REAL weaknesses...and if you see none...you extend guys.    

Once again...I completely agree.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

Wow. These turd buckets really are something else.  

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Don't be afraid...it's spring...its the time to be optimistic.   You say our depth is bad and I look at the best 26 man roster I've ever seen with the White Sox.   Leury Garcia and Adam Engel seem like professional back ups, Collins and Mendick both offer interesting skill sets as back ups.  As for the spending of money...OK, it's frustrating that we can't sign a $300 million contract...but I remember when Bill Veeck couldn't meet the payroll.  We've had top five payrolls under JR so it's just pessimism to say it won't happen again.  As for Vaughn...just wait!!!  

 

We’re one of only five clubs to never have signed a $100M contract.  Do you realize how ridiculous that is for a baseball team in Chicago with one of the sweetest stadium deals in all of sports?  I’m glad your optimistic, but Jerry deserves doesn’t deserve a free pass here.  Adding Lance Lynn was a huge move for 2021, but cost us a promising young arm in Dunning (who could have helped us for the next six years) all because Jerry’s need to cut payroll limited our options.  Liam Hendriks was also a fantastic addition, but his signing forced us to gamble in RF once again, go cheap with starting pitching depth, and not add a left-handed bench piece.  All this after Reinsdorf pocketed millions during the rebuild.  So no, my frustration is not centered around missing out on Machado’s $300M contract, but rather that even just another $10M or so this year could have gone a long way to improving our playoff chances.  I hope in the end our lack of depth doesn’t really matter, but it’s totally fair to be a little pissed that Reinsdorf is kicking off the first real year of our competitive window with a YoY payroll decrease, COVID or no COVID.

[Tony]

2 hours ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Why do you want to be a White Sox fan if you hate everything about the organization?   i get how frustrating it must have been this off season for you with getting only two Cy Young candidates, a Hall of Fame manager, four top fifty prospects joining the team, some of the top young coaching minds and adding a solid right fielder to the playoff team.  Stupid, horrid White Sox.     

 No where did I say I hate everything about the organization, so I suggest you brush up on reading comprehension skills. It will be valuable for you in the future, I promise. 
 

And you have every right to feel as optimistic as you do. Some of us also have the right to be excited about the upcoming season but question some of the decisions made. I’m sorry you’re so offended by a different opinion. You really should try and be a more understanding person.

 

[South Side Hit Men]

8 hours ago, Tony said:

Yeah, shame on the fans. I mean, the team was established in 1901 and heading into the 2021 season, the franchise has never made the playoffs in back-to-back years.

What a bunch of assholes we are. 

And "making the playoffs" is a very low bar. The Franchise won or advanced in the Playoffs a total of zero times beyond the three (1906, 1917 and 2005) World Series teams. Rick Hahn said himself anything besides a World Series Championship would be considered "disappointment".  

8 hours ago, HOFHurt35 said:

While Steve's response is a bit over the edger here, I think he and many White Sox employees are probably fed up with the negative doom and gloom tone from many Sox fans.

White Sox employees have a much stronger backbone that the handful of posters like the one I'm quoting who "piss their pants" or clutch their pearls at any thought or comment questioning anything the team has said or done, regardless of how ridiculous. After all, said employees survive working in a completely dysfunctional JR organization.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/30220736/why-tony-la-russa-sincerely-curious-choice-white-sox-manager

Quote

It was jarring nevertheless to see Reinsdorf essentially flout the Selig Rule, named after his longtime collaborator and former commissioner Bud Selig, which calls for teams to interview minority candidates for high-level positions.

Nobody was going to come in and blow Reinsdorf away. His mind was made up, even as others balked. Players as well as rank-and-file employees told ESPN they were dumbfounded. 

I'd bet everything I own Rick Hahn doesn't grit his teeth or get this mad reading any comment on a White Sox message board. There were also reports Hahn storming out of White Sox offices once this decision was made for him, the third manager he had no say in hiring, And based on what was reported last week, the anger was limited to having to hire and introduce this "I don't have a racist bone in my body" fossil, and not the fact that he was hiring a repeat DUI offender whose latest arrest would be disclosed to the world a few days later.

And then, of course, you have the bold faced lies, once again delivered by paid for minions employed to sling bullshit to the public on command.

So plenty of reasons for White Sox employees to be mad. Being "fed up" at White Sox fans questioning the bullshit above not on their radar.

[caulfield12]

4 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Wow. These turd buckets really are something else.  

And one wonders why this organization has the longest playoff-less streak in baseball by far, with the Padres and White Sox both breaking theirs last season.

[RagahRagah]

16 hours ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Frustration is premature.   I think it is clear that the White Sox have a plan and its execution has not been flawless...but nearly.  Last year they signed Keuchel and Grandal...and brought up Robert, Madrigal, Foster, Heuer and Crochett...and they went to the playoffs.  This year they got Lynn, Hendricks and Eaton and will bring up Kopech and Vaughn.  And what you and others are angry about...not pushing all the chips in now...I think is an asset...they have kept their power dry.  We have only traded one of our top 30 prospects and really haven't spent much money.  JR, in spite the propaganda, had top five payrolls in the 2000's, 1990's and 1980's WHEN the teams were good.  Why would we believe he won't do it again?   Our tradeable assets aren't worth what they should have been because of COVID...a year ago we thought of the Rutherford, Adolfo and Lugo at least one was going to have a leap forward year...and then there was no season.   Same can be said for all of the top 30...there will be at least ten of them that will be worth much more at the trade deadline than they are right now.   As for the missed opportunities...What happens if Cease is great...and Kopech is great...and we just spent all of our Gio extension money on Bauer...who in my mind has some real questions.  Why sign Springer who you would have to pay the centerfielder premium for...when you want to play him in RF?   Why pay for Brantley or Cruz when Vaughn could be better than either.  Let's watch how the things evolve and then at the trade deadline you can push in the chips when you have a better idea the REAL weaknesses...and if you see none...you extend guys.    

How is frustration premature when the basis of the frustration is due to something that's been going on for years and years?

You keep questioning the frustration yet you don't seem to understand what the frustration is even actually about.

[Kyyle23]

8 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

And "making the playoffs" is a very low bar. The Franchise won or advanced in the Playoffs a total of zero times beyond the three (1906, 1917 and 2005) World Series teams. Rick Hahn said himself anything besides a World Series Championship would be considered "disappointment".  

White Sox employees have a much stronger backbone that the handful of posters like the one I'm quoting who "piss their pants" or clutch their pearls at any thought or comment questioning anything the team has said or done, regardless of how ridiculous. After all, said employees survive working in a completely dysfunctional JR organization.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/30220736/why-tony-la-russa-sincerely-curious-choice-white-sox-manager

I'd bet everything I own Rick Hahn doesn't grit his teeth or get this mad reading any comment on a White Sox message board. There were also reports Hahn storming out of White Sox offices once this decision was made for him, the third manager he had no say in hiring, And based on what was reported last week, the anger was limited to having to hire and introduce this "I don't have a racist bone in my body" fossil, and not the fact that he was hiring a repeat DUI offender whose latest arrest would be disclosed to the world a few days later.

And then, of course, you have the bold faced lies, once again delivered by paid for minions employed to sling bullshit to the public on command.

So plenty of reasons for White Sox employees to be mad. Being "fed up" at White Sox fans questioning the bullshit above not on their radar.

Nah man, let's talk about who is pissing their pants.  Don't subtweet, name some names

[Dick Allen]

Does anyone really buy JR's statement? 

I'm sorry, that is telling his customer base  he thinks they are dumb. Not based on friendship? Not based on the past? OK, Jerry.

[Kyyle23]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Does anyone really buy JR's statement? 

I'm sorry, that is telling his customer base  he thinks they are dumb. Not based on friendship? Not based on the past? OK, Jerry.

He hired his buddy to right a perceived wrong.  It is what it is.  Being truthful or lying about it doesn't really matter to me because it was flawed logic to begin with

[Texsox]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

Does anyone really buy JR's statement? 

I'm sorry, that is telling his customer base  he thinks they are dumb. Not based on friendship? Not based on the past? OK, Jerry.

I believe that he believes it. I'm not going to call a couple of elderly gentlemen liars. In the south we respect our elders. 

I believe that at this stage it's a dream sequence that Hollywood has played out in a million ways. Let's get the band back together and ride off into the sunset. We'll see if the screen play will be written by Nicholas Sparks or Stephen King. 

 

[Dick Allen]

5 minutes ago, Texsox said:

I believe that he believes it. I'm not going to call a couple of elderly gentlemen liars. In the south we respect our elders. 

I believe that at this stage it's a dream sequence that Hollywood has played out in a million ways. Let's get the band back together and ride off into the sunset. We'll see if the screen play will be written by Nicholas Sparks or Stephen King. 

 

So he's George Costanza. If you really believe it, it is not a lie. 

Maybe when the Bulls are ready to win he will give Chief Triangle a call. 

[Dick Allen]

10 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

He hired his buddy to right a perceived wrong.  It is what it is.  Being truthful or lying about it doesn't really matter to me because it was flawed logic to begin with

I don't know. What gets me is JR is another guy who has a huge problem with the press. Says they get things wrong. Told Terry Boers when he was a respected sportswriter he was full of BS, yet has no problem releasing a statement full of BS. 

[Texsox]

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

So he's George Costanza. If you really believe it, it is not a lie. 

Maybe when the Bulls are ready to win he will give Chief Triangle a call. 

Actually it's worse than that. The only person who knows for certain is JR. How are you going to prove he's lying? 

Now,  what we can do is make a claim that's an even worse reason to hire him because he's flat out wrong. That old friendships is a better reason. 

[Kyyle23]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I don't know. What gets me is JR is another guy who has a huge problem with the press. Says they get things wrong. Told Terry Boers when he was a respected sportswriter he was full of BS, yet has no problem releasing a statement full of BS. 

I don't disagree with any of that.  He always has had a grudge with the press and likes to push buttons.  

[Texsox]

57 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I don't know. What gets me is JR is another guy who has a huge problem with the press. Says they get things wrong. Told Terry Boers when he was a respected sportswriter he was full of BS, yet has no problem releasing a statement full of BS. 

When you're one of the worse run franchise in baseball it's just a normal day at the office. Sigh

[South Side Hit Men]

3 hours ago, Texsox said:

Actually it's worse than that. The only person who knows for certain is JR. How are you going to prove he's lying? 

Now,  what we can do is make a claim that's an even worse reason to hire him because he's flat out wrong. That old friendships is a better reason. 

By using Jerry’s own words.

Jerry stated in an interview linked in my signature months before hiring La Russa Tony has no reason to return to managing, that as a 75 year old (at the time) he can’t relate to players in their 20s.