RagahRagah Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 25 minutes ago, Texsox said: So your plan is to pressure sponsors to demand he goes into a victim impact panel and completes an alcohol awareness class. (At least in Texas that's pretty standard for everyone). And if he doesn't, the sponsor should stop supporting the Sox and pull their ads. I think it's easier to have the courts continue to require that for everyone. But whatever. If nothing changes, it all stays the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 27 minutes ago, bigruss said: Stone was taking a similar stance, everyone is innocent until proven guilty. I think we all (or hope) agree with that. But that's also why organizations DON'T hire someone who is under investigation or charge, because there is risk that there is guilty. You would wait until that person is cleared and then hire them. So what happens if Tony has to serve a sentence, do the Sox really hold onto him at that point? I'm not sure how MLB doesn't intervene if that happens. I mean, it will only be 10 days maximum and perhaps having to skip every series in Torotno. Reinsdorf is clearly ok with that. And if Manfred hasn't intervened yet, he won't be. Count that as another factor illustrating baseball's main office issues - this should have been spiked by the Commish by October 15, and not just because of the DUI. But just say the commish was too weak to stop JR from hiring him - if the arrest was known by the franchise the commish should have had them required to address it in the press conference announcing the hire at a minimum. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 42 minutes ago, RagahRagah said: If nothing changes, it all stays the same. Agreed. But taking an indirect path that hurts innocent people isn't as productive as a direct path where the victim is punished. Should you have your income and livelihood in jeopardy because a coworker received a DUI? Is that the society we want to live in? Punish the guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagahRagah Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 19 minutes ago, Texsox said: Agreed. But taking an indirect path that hurts innocent people isn't as productive as a direct path where the victim is punished. Should you have your income and livelihood in jeopardy because a coworker received a DUI? Is that the society we want to live in? Punish the guilty. With this logic it is impossible for people in these high positions to actually get punished. Sorry to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 1 minute ago, RagahRagah said: With this logic it is impossible for people in these high positions to actually get punished. Sorry to say. That's what our courts are for. Jail time. Heavy fines. Ignition lock devices. Easy to punish people. Punishment is what our justice system does best. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, Texsox said: That's what our courts are for. Jail time. Heavy fines. Ignition lock devices. Easy to punish people. Punishment is what our justice system does best. This is a whole other topic. Edit: Regarding the disparity in punishment - obviously our justice system really only specializes in punishment vs. rehabilitation, but for the wealthy (such as Tony "Hall of Fame baseball person" La Russa), it's a lot easier to get out of things. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagahRagah Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 10 minutes ago, Texsox said: That's what our courts are for. Jail time. Heavy fines. Ignition lock devices. Easy to punish people. Punishment is what our justice system does best. I know you aren't this naive. Virtually none of these people actually face jail time. The only way to achieve greater good, unfortunately, requires loss before being put right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagahRagah Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 1 hour ago, bigruss said: Stone was taking a similar stance, everyone is innocent until proven guilty. I think we all (or hope) agree with that. But that's also why organizations DON'T hire someone who is under investigation or charge, because there is risk that there is guilty. You would wait until that person is cleared and then hire them. So what happens if Tony has to serve a sentence, do the Sox really hold onto him at that point? I'm not sure how MLB doesn't intervene if that happens. Another bold illustration of just how ridiculously stupid this hire was, aside from it simply being bad on principle from the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakes Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 9 minutes ago, Texsox said: That's what our courts are for. Jail time. Heavy fines. Ignition lock devices. Easy to punish people. Punishment is what our justice system does best. So employers should have no say in consequences, only the courts? You can't possibly believe this. I hate to go here, but Ray Rice was never actually convicted of a crime, so he shouldn't have faced any consequences from the league or his team? The courts took it up and dropped his charges, so just go back to work as if nothing happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sockin Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Passan confirms someone from Twitter DM’d him with the La Russa DUI tip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, shakes said: So employers should have no say in consequences, only the courts? You can't possibly believe this. I hate to go here, but Ray Rice was never actually convicted of a crime, so he shouldn't have faced any consequences from the league or his team? The courts took it up and dropped his charges, so just go back to work as if nothing happened? Employers definitely should have a say. Punish the guilty. The team should fire him once he's convicted. Tony should be suspended by the league at a minimum. What we shouldn't do is punish the other employees by pressuring sponsors to stop their ads. The sales reps shouldn't be punished because of Tony's actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 11 minutes ago, RagahRagah said: I know you aren't this naive. Virtually none of these people actually face jail time. The only way to achieve greater good, unfortunately, requires loss before being put right. I don't believe sales rep losing their jobs because sponsors pull out benefits anyone. A sponsor leaving the Sox will not put a dent in drunk driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakes Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Texsox said: Employers definitely should have a say. Punish the guilty. The team should fire him once he's convicted. Tony should be suspended by the league at a minimum. What we shouldn't do is punish the other employees by pressuring sponsors to stop their ads. The sales reps shouldn't be punished because of Tony's actions. Go back to my earlier example. Ray Rice wasn't convicted of a crime. What should have been done with him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Sockin said: Passan confirms someone from Twitter DM’d him with the La Russa DUI tip. He mentioned a guy named Mr. sugar Penis who has broken stuff. Said it isn't Mr. Sugar Penis that gave him the info, but somebody similar to him. Biggest part is that Passan says that he thinks the new drops regarding the story isn't over. Maybe we'll see footage soon? Wetbutt or katy perry's bootyhole broke the news possibly?!?! Edited November 12, 2020 by Yearnin' for Yermin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagahRagah Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Just now, shakes said: Go back to my earlier example. Ray Rice wasn't convicted of a crime. What should have been done with him? Not really relevant. Ray Rice is one man with a family and looks small in scope. Guys like Rensdorf don't go to jail for anything and technically he didn't commit a crime; but the ONLY way to make a difference here is to hurt his pocketbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 "well I just lost another account, that's half my commission, we'll have to sell the house" "well at least people aren't drinking and driving like they use to" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, shakes said: Go back to my earlier example. Ray Rice wasn't convicted of a crime. What should have been done with him? Fire him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakes Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Just now, Texsox said: Fire him. You said punish the guilty. Legally, he was never guilty of anything. Why is that different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 1 minute ago, shakes said: You said punish the guilty. Legally, he was never guilty of anything. Why is that different? What is different is innocent people aren't being punished. What I don't want to see is sponsors ending their contracts and the employees in sales and advertising getting punished. I'm not trying to protect anyone who has done something wrong. I am protecting collateral damage to innocent folks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 20 minutes ago, Sockin said: Passan confirms someone from Twitter DM’d him with the La Russa DUI tip. The end of that is kind of damning. What other info about the incident could come out? Maybe he called the cop a racial slur or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 The way that they had "the white sox, the new mets" was not intended, but should maybe be intended that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said: The end of that is kind of damning. What other info about the incident could come out? Maybe he called the cop a racial slur or something? I feel like that would have come out already, but yeah...it’s sad we even have to worry about the other shoe dropping 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakes Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, Texsox said: What is different is innocent people aren't being punished. What I don't want to see is sponsors ending their contracts and the employees in sales and advertising getting punished. I'm not trying to protect anyone who has done something wrong. I am protecting collateral damage to innocent folks But it is doing just that, protecting those who have done something wrong . But fine, I'll switch gears - it's OK we have differing opinions on this. Imagine if the Sox had better leadership, that was held accountable, and didn't perpetually have some of the worst attendance in baseball. Imagine how well those ticket agents could do, and how many more they would have to hire if they made better decisions and cared about their fans. Short term pain, for long term gain. Or, we could just let Jerry keep not caring about anyone else, alienate their fans and let those ticket agents miss out on huge opportunity cost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, shakes said: But it is doing just that, protecting those who have done something wrong . But fine, I'll switch gears - it's OK we have differing opinions on this. Imagine if the Sox had better leadership, that was held accountable, and didn't perpetually have some of the worst attendance in baseball. Imagine how well those ticket agents could do, and how many more they would have to hire if they made better decisions and cared about their fans. Short term pain, for long term gain. Or, we could just let Jerry keep not caring about anyone else, alienate their fans and let those ticket agents miss out on huge opportunity cost. How am I protecting Larussa who I want fired and to serve jail time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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