La Russa arrested for DUI in Feb; charged day before hire

[gusguyman]

3 hours ago, Texsox said:

What is different is innocent people aren't being punished.

What I don't want to see is sponsors ending their contracts and the employees in sales and advertising getting punished. 

I'm not trying to protect anyone who has done something wrong. I am protecting collateral damage to innocent folks 

 

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So you’re ok with innocent Sox employees potentially losing their jobs as long as La Russa loses his?  And the reality is if your efforts to get sponsorship pulled, the former is what will likely happen and not the latter.  This is the problem with cancel culture, you have one goal in mind and don’t care how it impacts anyone else.

The 8 hour work day will be a disaster for workers! It will cut into company profits leading to massive layoffs! And striking will just make it that much worse! Support your innocent local workers and tell your congressman to vote NO on the Fair Labor Standards Act!!!

[Balta1701]

11 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I have said it before, but will say it again.  A mistake can be made, and steps can be taken to fix them.  Nothing in TLRs history seems to show that he is that kind of a guy, fully evidenced by the fact that he just picked up his second DUI, and not only didn't own up to it, but tried to intimidate a member of the vaunted thin blue line into letting him go.  This goes long past any potential gray area or learning a lesson.

There are even things that they could be doing or saying right now if he was actually taking steps to fix them, or frankly, cared one iota. He could have owned up to it at the press conference and answered questions about it. He could have told how he realized he had a problem and it had been haunting him for years, so starting in March he went to treatment and it was extra tough because of the lockdowns but he is taking these steps to make sure he's safe from now on, he's going to take these steps with white sox charities, he sees now how his statements in 2007 were insincere and he's extra embarrassed because of it so he wants to personally apologize to Kaepernick, and he's honored that Jerry Reinsdorf saw how he was working on this and gave him a chance to show that to the world. 

Note the subtle difference between that and what is happening right now. 

[southsider2k5]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

There are even things that they could be doing or saying right now if he was actually taking steps to fix them, or frankly, cared one iota. He could have owned up to it at the press conference and answered questions about it. He could have told how he realized he had a problem and it had been haunting him for years, so starting in March he went to treatment and it was extra tough because of the lockdowns but he is taking these steps to make sure he's safe from now on, he's going to take these steps with white sox charities, he sees now how his statements in 2007 were insincere and he's extra embarrassed because of it, and he's honored that Jerry Reinsdorf saw how he was working on this and gave him a chance to show that to the world. 

Note the subtle difference between that and what is happening right now. 

One could almost say he is sincere in his path to not give a crap about what people think of it.

[CanOfCorn]

57 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Again, this isn’t a White Sox issue, this is a Jerry Reinsdorf issue.  He’s the only person excusing this behavior and he also happens to be the one person who is friends with La Russa.  If he hasn’t helped him by now, despite a drinking problem for ages, nothing is going to change that.

He owns the team. If it's Reinsdorf's issue, then it's a White Sox issue. Everyone is going to have to answer for it or about it. He won't be wearing a "Chicago Reinsdorfs" uniform. It will say "Sox" clear as day on the front. While you are right, Jerry made this decision knowing full well, he has made it a problem for everyone else on the team. 

[tray]

White Sox statement:

 “As Tony La Russa’s attorney said in his statement, Tony deserves all the assumptions and protections granted to everyone in a court of law, especially while this is a pending matter. Once his case reaches resolution in the courts, we will have more to say. The White Sox understand the seriousness of these charges.”

End of story for now. The best LaRussa could hope for would be to Manage with a zero-tolerace policy to drinking any alcohol. and that might be stretch.

Tony will likely enter a plea of guilty to the  misdemeanor charge and accept probation and a fine. Then the Sox will hire another Manager and all of us can STFU about this mess.

Edited November 12, 2020 by tray

[Balta1701]

24 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

One could almost say he is sincere in his path to not give a crap about what people think of it.

Oh and I forgot, he should have publicly apologized to the police officer for his behavior that night. Regardless of charges outstanding. 

[greg775]

1 hour ago, Markbilliards said:

Let's be honest guys.  Most of us here who wrote in to the Sox to call for TLR's termination, did so because he is a terrible fit for the Sox right now and we should have had a younger more modern choice with more current experience.  His 2nd DUI might have put us over the top, but that isn't the primary reason for the outrage.

With that in mind, the whole contacting the sponsorships thing is a little over the top.

The second DUI turned me completely around. I was totally for the hire of LaRussa. Figured one DUI, anyone can make a terrible mistake. But the second one changed it for me. I won't support Tony on anything anymore. He's gone to me and should be gone from baseball. He's a crabby old man who is a danger to himself and society if as alleged he's guilty of the second DUI. He should be fired the moment he's found guilty of DUI. If he's innocent somehow I guess he should stay.

[Texsox]

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Again if Jerry is more worried about the guilty than the innocent, he is the one who will need to answer for that.  That is HIS problem.

Yes it is. A problem that he will solve by punishing innocent people. 

 

[Texsox]

2 hours ago, hi8is said:

It isn’t uncommon for people who require driving for a job that have a dui to be disqualified... A waiter isn’t a risk while working and a major league manager isn’t as well.

This isn’t about public safety, it is about job qualifications in the present circumstance and the scarcity of a position.

There aren’t only 30 waiter jobs.

Bottom line, his actions should warrant him not having this job.

I agree 100% he shouldn't have his job. I believe it is about public safety. People are putting innocent lives at risk when they drink and drive. 

 

[Texsox]

3 hours ago, SouthWallace said:

So we fans do nothing?  Just take it?  Just throw up our hands and live with the embarrassment?

What you are saying about collateral damage might be true on some level.  But public pressure with our dollars is all we have at this point.  I intend to continue using what little leverage I have to express my displeasure with this hiring and the mess JR is forcing on the org, employees, and fans.  

What will you tell the advertising sales guys when their income is cut in half or they lose their jobs?

Do you want the team trying to keep sponsors and replacing any that might leave? While fans are pressuring sponsors to leave ordinary middle class people are trying to keep those same sponsors. That's who you are fighting with, not JR, not Larussa. You're battling the sales person out making calls for a living. They will be the ones paying the price. 

But we'll feel better because we did make the decision.

 

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, Texsox said:

What will you tell the advertising sales guys when their income is cut in half or they lose their jobs?

Do you want the team trying to keep sponsors and replacing any that might leave? While fans are pressuring sponsors to leave ordinary middle class people are trying to keep those same sponsors. That's who you are fighting with, not JR, not Larussa. You're battling the sales person out making calls for a living. They will be the ones paying the price. 

But we'll feel better because we did make the decision.

 

What do you tell the family with a dead relative?  

[Texsox]

8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

What do you tell the family with a dead  

That I was wrong and the company should have fired salespeople and I'm sorry. We will start punishing multiple people at every company someone drives drunk at.

or

I wanted Larussa punished more severely after the first offense and now fired immediately and at the maximum lose his driving privileges for life or at the minimum a breathalyzer be installed in his car.

If six Cardinal employees lost their jobs in 2007 do you seriously think he wouldn't have driven drunk? I believe a more severe punishment for him would have had more of an effect. 

But I guess you think more highly of his moral character than I do. I don't think he gives a shit about anyone as displayed by him accepting the job. Knowing innocent people lost their jobs won't change his behavior. But I hope you are right.

I also don't think JR gives a shit about people. So he won't care either about firing some staff. Behavior won't change and working folks get screwed.

[Middle Buffalo]

11 minutes ago, Texsox said:

What will you tell the advertising sales guys when their income is cut in half or they lose their jobs?

 

 The feedback from the clients could be relayed to the owner by the sales guys. “TLR goes or we drop our sponsorship”  is pretty compelling. 

[Tnetennba]

17 minutes ago, Texsox said:

What will you tell the advertising sales guys when their income is cut in half or they lose their jobs?

Do you want the team trying to keep sponsors and replacing any that might leave? While fans are pressuring sponsors to leave ordinary middle class people are trying to keep those same sponsors. That's who you are fighting with, not JR, not Larussa. You're battling the sales person out making calls for a living. They will be the ones paying the price. 

But we'll feel better because we did make the decision.

 

I'm sorry your boss sucks and is putting his personal agenda before the well being of the team and those in its employ?

What should I say?  That I'll blindly support an owner that is tacitly endorsing his buddy's dangerous and negligent behavior with my own ordinary middle class dollars?

I acknowledge your argument and recognize the points you are making, but I'll ask you again, what should we fans do?  Do we Just take it?  Just keep on keeping on?  Just blindly and silently drudge on ashamed of the team we all love?  

 

[chetkincaid]

I really hope that the White Sox are just giving everyone time to celebrate Jose Abreu’s win before announcing that TLR has decided to decline the job. That would be awesome. 

[gusguyman]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

That I was wrong and the company should have fired salespeople and I'm sorry. We will start punishing multiple people at every company someone drives drunk at.

or

I wanted Larussa punished more severely after the first offense and now fired immediately and at the maximum lose his driving privileges for life or at the minimum a breathalyzer be installed in his car.

If six Cardinal employees lost their jobs in 2007 do you seriously think he wouldn't have driven drunk? I believe a more severe punishment for him would have had more of an effect. 

But I guess you think more highly of his moral character than I do. I don't think he gives a shit about anyone as displayed by him accepting the job. Knowing innocent people lost their jobs won't change his behavior. But I hope you are right.

I also don't think JR gives a shit about people. So he won't care either about firing some staff. Behavior won't change and working folks get screwed.

You've somehow let a Billionaire owner convince you that he has no autonomy, no free will, no choice in this matter. He does.

If fans put enough pressure on sponsors, they'll tell him the Larussa is bad for business right now, so they are terminating the deal until he's gone or until a couple of years go by and it all blows over.  He then has a choice, a legitimate choice with a glaringly obvious answer - fire larussa or suffer revenue losses. If he CHOOSES to take losses (a stupid, selfish, and irrational choice) and then CHOOSES to fire every other employee except Larussa, that is on HIM, and only him! 

Your argument is like saying we can't put someone in jail because their innocent family will starve to death if they choose not to work. Your argument is like telling someone who got sucker punched not to fight back or its their fault that they got in a fight. Your argument is exactly the same one billionaires use (and spend millions on amplifying) to paint workers going on strike as the villains. 

Its bullshit, its bootlicking, and, unless you are a Billionaire yourself, its counterproductive to your own success. 

[Chicago White Sox]

3 minutes ago, gusguyman said:

You've somehow let a Billionaire owner convince you that he has no autonomy, no free will, no choice in this matter. He does.

If fans put enough pressure on sponsors, they'll tell him the Larussa is bad for business right now, so they are terminating the deal until he's gone or until a couple of years go by and it all blows over.  He then has a choice, a legitimate choice with a glaringly obvious answer - fire larussa or suffer revenue losses. If he CHOOSES to take losses (a stupid, selfish, and irrational choice) and then CHOOSES to fire every other employee except Larussa, that is on HIM, and only him! 

Your argument is like saying we can't put someone in jail because their innocent family will starve to death if they choose not to work. Your argument is like telling someone who got sucker punched not to fight back or its their fault that they got in a fight. Your argument is exactly the same one billionaires use (and spend millions on amplifying) to paint workers going on strike as the villains. 

Its bullshit, its bootlicking, and, unless you are a Billionaire yourself, its counterproductive to your own success. 

Hiring 76 year old Tony La Russa coming off his 2nd DUI and against the wishes of his front office was an irrational decision.  You think 84 year old Jerry Reinsdorf is suddenly going to be rational and fire his best friend to protect the little guy in the organization?  Look, you guys can do whatever you want and I know the intentions are pure, but you would 100% be playing a role in the loss of those jobs.  Perhaps it’s ultimately for the greater good, but you can’t act like your actions are in a vacuum and free from ancillary impacts.

[fathom]

Seems like it’s full speed ahead with Tony as the manager, as he’s called some players and also with the Katz hiring.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

Seems like it’s full speed ahead with Tony as the manager, as he’s called some players and also with the Katz hiring.

Any ideas who else joins the staff?  Will they be Hahn picks?

[maloney.adam]

I also posted this in the Tony La Russa named Manager thread.

Edited November 13, 2020 by maloney.adam

[Chisoxfn]

57 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Any ideas who else joins the staff?  Will they be Hahn picks?

This are they Hahn picks or TLR picks, well the only thing I can say is, anyone hired I have to imagine TLR is on board and I'm presuming the front office guys are on board as well, but I can't imagine TLR getting stuck with coaches he doesn't want. He's a progressive guy when it comes to baseball and I don't see this as some anti TLR hire or some spite hire. That is crazy talk - not to mention - why as an up and coming pitching coach would you take this offer and even be in that type of situation. Makes no sense - which tells me everything I need to know about some of the blanket statements some on here make.  

[hi8is]

3 hours ago, Texsox said:

I agree 100% he shouldn't have his job. I believe it is about public safety. People are putting innocent lives at risk when they drink and drive. 

 

Well, I’m not talking about the act of driving drunk in terms of that risking lives - that is obvious.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Hiring 76 year old Tony La Russa coming off his 2nd DUI and against the wishes of his front office was an irrational decision.  You think 84 year old Jerry Reinsdorf is suddenly going to be rational and fire his best friend to protect the little guy in the organization?  Look, you guys can do whatever you want and I know the intentions are pure, but you would 100% be playing a role in the loss of those jobs.  Perhaps it’s ultimately for the greater good, but you can’t act like your actions are in a vacuum and free from ancillary impacts.

The one place in life Jerry is rational is the bottom line.

[Chicago White Sox]

53 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

This are they Hahn picks or TLR picks, well the only thing I can say is, anyone hired I have to imagine TLR is on board and I'm presuming the front office guys are on board as well, but I can't imagine TLR getting stuck with coaches he doesn't want. He's a progressive guy when it comes to baseball and I don't see this as some anti TLR hire or some spite hire. That is crazy talk - not to mention - why as an up and coming pitching coach would you take this offer and even be in that type of situation. Makes no sense - which tells me everything I need to know about some of the blanket statements some on here make.  

I’m not sure what’s so crazy about the question.  The GM normally picks the manager and didn’t get to in this case.  The manager normally gets to dictate his coaching staff, but La Russa suggested that KW & Hahn would have a lot of say in these picks.  Right now our org structure is not normal and I’d rather see Hahn’s vision of a coaching staff than La Russa brining in some old cronies.  The good news is that Katz interviewed with all of them including Tony, so hopefully everyone was on board with this pick.

[fathom]

“I really can’t say much about it” - how sad is it that this is what the Sox players will have to say for the next month

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/white-sox/mvp-jose-abreu-praises-rick-renteria-excited-play-tony-la-russa