La Russa arrested for DUI in Feb; charged day before hire

[RagahRagah]

13 hours ago, Texsox said:

Yes it is. A problem that he will solve by punishing innocent people. 

 

And this is why the guilty rarely get punished.

Some sacrifices have to be made to achieve the greater good. Sounds harsh but that is reality.

You come across like the guy who shits on people that seek a livable minimum wage because "Everyone will raise prices!" When it's the people raising the prices you should be mad at, not the little guy trying to make ends meet.

Edited November 13, 2020 by RagahRagah

[RagahRagah]

3 hours ago, gusguyman said:

You've somehow let a Billionaire owner convince you that he has no autonomy, no free will, no choice in this matter. He does.

If fans put enough pressure on sponsors, they'll tell him the Larussa is bad for business right now, so they are terminating the deal until he's gone or until a couple of years go by and it all blows over.  He then has a choice, a legitimate choice with a glaringly obvious answer - fire larussa or suffer revenue losses. If he CHOOSES to take losses (a stupid, selfish, and irrational choice) and then CHOOSES to fire every other employee except Larussa, that is on HIM, and only him! 

Your argument is like saying we can't put someone in jail because their innocent family will starve to death if they choose not to work. Your argument is like telling someone who got sucker punched not to fight back or its their fault that they got in a fight. Your argument is exactly the same one billionaires use (and spend millions on amplifying) to paint workers going on strike as the villains. 

Its bullshit, its bootlicking, and, unless you are a Billionaire yourself, its counterproductive to your own success. 

Fucking truth.

[southsider2k5]

10 minutes ago, fathom said:

“I really can’t say much about it” - how sad is it that this is what the Sox players will have to say for the next month

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/white-sox/mvp-jose-abreu-praises-rick-renteria-excited-play-tony-la-russa

Yep. Thanks Tony, our MVP is having to cover for you on his night. How sincere.

[hi8is]

We should at least look at the entire quote, which was...

"At the same time, I'm really excited to have the chance to play for a manager like Tony La Russa. I think we have to wait to see how this goes and just wait. I can't really say much about it, but I'm excited to have a manager with the history that Tony has."

[Texsox]

11 hours ago, SouthWallace said:

I'm sorry your boss sucks and is putting his personal agenda before the well being of the team and those in its employ?

What should I say?  That I'll blindly support an owner that is tacitly endorsing his buddy's dangerous and negligent behavior with my own ordinary middle class dollars?

I acknowledge your argument and recognize the points you are making, but I'll ask you again, what should we fans do?  Do we Just take it?  Just keep on keeping on?  Just blindly and silently drudge on ashamed of the team we all love?  

 

Complain. Keep the media campaign alive. Burn jerseys. 

But really how about demanding tougher DUI laws? How about doing something to stop DUIs instead of just trying to get a manager you like? Require Breathalyzers for people convicted of DUI. How about all this anger doing something to really benefit society? 

Making certain that after two convictions he never drives again. Imagine actually doing something for society. 

[Texsox]

Think Tony is inviting the guys out for a beer to get to know them? 

[Texsox]

7 hours ago, RagahRagah said:

And this is why the guilty rarely get punished.

Some sacrifices have to be made to achieve the greater good. Sounds harsh but that is reality.

You come across like the guy who shits on people that seek a livable minimum wage because "Everyone will raise prices!" When it's the people raising the prices you should be mad at, not the little bit trying to make ends meet.

Actually quite the opposite. I'm not for a minimum wage, I'm for a livable wage, which is generally much higher. I'm picking the working class in this and you think I want to shit on people seeking minimum wage. Where the hell is that logic?

I'm suggesting we punish the fuck out of Larussa without screwing over the guys working for a paycheck. You want to screw over the working guys in hopes it will punish JR and Tony. Whose fighting for regular workers?

[Texsox]

I'm going to write law makers proposing "Tony's Law" which requires first time offenders to not just complete a one time alcohol awareness class and victims impact panel but complete one annually. Clearly the lessons are forgotten over time by some.

I believe it would be a lasting tribute to a Hall of Famer and keep his legacy of drunk driving alive for people to learn from. 

Perhaps a media campaign to have JR endorse it. 

[Balta1701]

33 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Actually quite the opposite. I'm not for a minimum wage, I'm for a livable wage, which is generally much higher. I'm picking the working class in this and you think I want to shit on people seeking minimum wage. Where the hell is that logic?

I'm suggesting we punish the fuck out of Larussa without screwing over the guys working for a paycheck. You want to screw over the working guys in hopes it will punish JR and Tony. Whose fighting for regular workers?

But you are ignoring the power dynamics. When LaRussa gets off with community service and a Canadian travel ban, Reinsdorf will do none of those things. They will declare they were right and DUIs aren’t a big deal and the cop should respect a legit hall of fame type guy as above the law, not like some (pick your insult for a black person). And out of every dollar you spend, 20% or whatever will directly endorse that point of view. If the way you want it to happen doesn’t work, you jump to saying the status quo is fine. “Mitch McConnell won’t let a livable wage exist, so $7.15 an hour is fine and I don’t see why anyone would protest that. The rallies outside McDonalds only cost them business and make people lose their jobs, they should be happy as is as it’s better than nothing.”

[RagahRagah]

55 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Actually quite the opposite. I'm not for a minimum wage, I'm for a livable wage, which is generally much higher. I'm picking the working class in this and you think I want to shit on people seeking minimum wage. Where the hell is that logic?

I'm suggesting we punish the fuck out of Larussa without screwing over the guys working for a paycheck. You want to screw over the working guys in hopes it will punish JR and Tony. Whose fighting for regular workers?

But we know Reinsdorf won't do that, and he's the only one who can.

[Texsox]

53 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

But you are ignoring the power dynamics. When LaRussa gets off with community service and a Canadian travel ban, Reinsdorf will do none of those things. They will declare they were right and DUIs aren’t a big deal and the cop should respect a legit hall of fame type guy as above the law, not like some (pick your insult for a black person). And out of every dollar you spend, 20% or whatever will directly endorse that point of view. If the way you want it to happen doesn’t work, you jump to saying the status quo is fine. “Mitch McConnell won’t let a livable wage exist, so $7.15 an hour is fine and I don’t see why anyone would protest that. The rallies outside McDonalds only cost them business and make people lose their jobs, they should be happy as is as it’s better than nothing.”

So don't pressure the courts to stop these lenient sentences. Instead compete with the sales reps from the team?  Because if the rep can't make a sale eventually the punishment will trickle up? How about all that effort is placed at the court he's appearing in to make certain justice is served?

Minimum wage is load of crap that big business loves. It's a false number. We should be fighting for a livable wage that is established by the poverty rate. 

I went door to door campaigning in the city of McAllen and we got livable wage into law for the city and anyone who contracts with the city. It can be done. 

 

[wrathofhahn]

The fake preening over Larussa DUI is getting a little much we all know what this is really about which is his politics.

Half this board wanted to sign legit awful people like Machado and Harper

 

[Dick Allen]

6 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

The fake preening over Larussa DUI is getting a little much we all know what this is really about which is his politics.

Half this board wanted to sign legit awful people like Machado and Harper

 

Key word there is legit. But at least those guys didn’t continuously break the law. Tony breaks laws and is an awful person.

[Chicago White Sox]

43 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

But you are ignoring the power dynamics. When LaRussa gets off with community service and a Canadian travel ban, Reinsdorf will do none of those things. They will declare they were right and DUIs aren’t a big deal and the cop should respect a legit hall of fame type guy as above the law, not like some (pick your insult for a black person). And out of every dollar you spend, 20% or whatever will directly endorse that point of view. If the way you want it to happen doesn’t work, you jump to saying the status quo is fine. “Mitch McConnell won’t let a livable wage exist, so $7.15 an hour is fine and I don’t see why anyone would protest that. The rallies outside McDonalds only cost them business and make people lose their jobs, they should be happy as is as it’s better than nothing.”

Lol you are insane.  Fighting for a livable wage is not a black & white issue cause there is a greater good that’s created for generations to come that would without question offset any shot-term implications.  We should all want a livable wage standard as it should be a basic human rights requirement in this country and we should fight for it until it happens.

Fighting to get La Russa fired at all costs ignores the reality that Jerry is almost certainly not going to fire La Russa.  The only people who are likely to be punished are innocent bystanders.  And what is the potential gain?  A single human being is punished and not allowed to be a major league manager?  Nothing else changes.  Don’t get me wrong, I want La Russa gone as badly as the next guy, but if public shaming doesn’t work I just don’t think the benefit of attacking the bottom line outweighs the potential ancillary costs.  You on the other hand have decided that satisfying your moral compass matters above all else.  I know it will never happen, but I wish you could acknowledge there is a gray element to the way you’re approaching this.

[soxfan49]

34 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

The fake preening over Larussa DUI is getting a little much we all know what this is really about which is his politics.

Half this board wanted to sign legit awful people like Machado and Harper

 

Harper and Machado are awful people?

[Texsox]

It's interesting how minimum wage got dragged into this. In a sense it's analogous to trickle down economics. Some want trickle up punishment. Wipe out enough employees and JR will be forced to fire Larussa. 

Sure eventually Larussa will fall, but  Larussa will fall on the bodies of working men and women and that cost is too high for me. 

Lost in all this I seem to be the only one to be advocating for a letter writing campaign to the one entity that can directly punish Larussa, the courts. Why accept they won't punish him for a second DUI? 

[EloyJenkins]

45 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

The fake preening over Larussa DUI is getting a little much we all know what this is really about which is his politics.

Half this board wanted to sign legit awful people like Machado and Harper

 

This is a real bad take. This has to do with his egotism and failure to realize he has a problem. We all knew he was a drunk, but another bad decision by him and ultimately Jerry has made this so much worse for the look of the Sox organization

[SonofaRoache]

8 hours ago, hi8is said:

We should at least look at the entire quote, which was...

"At the same time, I'm really excited to have the chance to play for a manager like Tony La Russa. I think we have to wait to see how this goes and just wait. I can't really say much about it, but I'm excited to have a manager with the history that Tony has."

Stop it. You are not letting the Sox fan base agenda go through smoothly. Every quote must slam TLR and every player must say they hate him and will force a trade. 

[SonofaRoache]

5 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

This is a real bad take. This has to do with his egotism and failure to realize he has a problem. We all knew he was a drunk, but another bad decision by him and ultimately Jerry has made this so much worse for the look of the Sox organization

No it is not. People never wanted TLR and are using the DUI as a final straw. To be fair though it is worth noting and discussing for sure. At the end of the day it won't matter because this organization has already made their minds up.

I think the players and some management have paused to question things, but they don't care as much as fans think. They want to win and probably feel TLR will help them win. Success equates to a lot of money, notoriety and accolades, and TLR will bring that for sure. Negative attention is still attention. 

[wrathofhahn]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

But you are ignoring the power dynamics. When LaRussa gets off with community service and a Canadian travel ban, Reinsdorf will do none of those things. They will declare they were right and DUIs aren’t a big deal and the cop should respect a legit hall of fame type guy as above the law, not like some (pick your insult for a black person). And out of every dollar you spend, 20% or whatever will directly endorse that point of view. If the way you want it to happen doesn’t work, you jump to saying the status quo is fine. “Mitch McConnell won’t let a livable wage exist, so $7.15 an hour is fine and I don’t see why anyone would protest that. The rallies outside McDonalds only cost them business and make people lose their jobs, they should be happy as is as it’s better than nothing.”

How does cancelling La Russa solve drunk driving? It seems to me if you feel DUI's aren't being taken seriously enough the proper course to affect real change is to call on your local politician to change the laws.

Unless this really isn't about La Russa being .01 over the legal limit and it has to do with the fact you don't agree with his politics. Ozzie Guillen admitted to being hired for the job by Williams after showing black out drunk. He also claimed he got drunk every night on the road and while he never admits to drunk driving (which would be stupid even by his standards) it is hard to believe he had a driver waiting for him every time he went out.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1135904-ozzie-guillen-claims-he-gets-drunk-every-night-on-the-road

I followed the Guillen rumors. Did anyone bring up his drinking as a reason NOT to hire him in these threads? Like one person?

Just now, soxfan49 said:

Harper and Machado are awful people?

Pretty much. I am not going to sidetrack the thread listing all the examples when you can just google them. There are many other players this board have advocated for who are objectively worse. I have been pretty consistent that I don't believe It's the role of twitter and the outrage mob to take the place of our court systems.

If people are outraged at the sentences then call your politician to change them but this selective outrage to get people fired who you never liked anyways most people see right through.

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said:

No it is not. People never wanted TLR and are using the DUI as a final straw. To be fair though it is worth noting and discussing for sure. At the end of the day it won't matter because this organization has already made their minds up.

I think the players and some management have paused to question things, but they don't care as much as fans think. They want to win and probably feel TLR will help them win. Success equates to a lot of money, notoriety and accolades, and TLR will bring that for sure. Negative attention is still attention. 

The DUI should be the only straw

[EloyJenkins]

Just now, SonofaRoache said:

No it is not. People never wanted TLR and are using the DUI as a final straw. To be fair though it is worth noting and discussing for sure. At the end of the day it won't matter because this organization has already made their minds up.

I think the players and some management have paused to question things, but they don't care as much as fans think. They want to win and probably feel TLR will help them win. Success equates to a lot of money, notoriety and accolades, and TLR will bring that for sure. Negative attention is still attention. 

I don't think you read my post right. I was responding to the we don't like his politics comment. That has nothing to do with this. The DUI needs to be taken seriously, as it indicates a major leadership flaw

[bmags]

1 minute ago, wrathofhahn said:

How does cancelling La Russa solve drunk driving? It seems to me if you feel DUI's aren't being taken seriously enough the proper course to affect real change is to call on your local politician to change the laws.

Unless this really isn't about La Russa being .01 over the legal limit and it has to do with the fact you don't agree with his politics. Ozzie Guillen admitted to being hired for the job by Williams after showing black out drunk. He also claimed he got drunk every night on the road and while he never admits to drunk driving (which would be stupid even by his standards) it is hard to believe he had a driver waiting for him every time he went out.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1135904-ozzie-guillen-claims-he-gets-drunk-every-night-on-the-road

I followed the Guillen rumors. Did anyone bring up his drinking as a reason NOT to hire him in these threads? Like one person?

Pretty much. I am not going to sidetrack the thread listing all the examples when you can just google them. There are many other players this board have advocated for who are objectively worse. I have been pretty consistent that I don't believe It's the role of twitter and the outrage mob to take the place of our court systems.

If people are outraged at the sentences then call your politician to change them but this selective outrage to get people fired who you never liked anyways most people see right through.

"Hello, Representative? I think we should make driving while intoxicated illegal!"

[Harry Chappas]

The thing that will make this work for me is some humility from LaRussa.  Hopefully in early December that happens after the case is settled.  I was ok with the hiring not happy about a short term hire but could live with it.

The Katz hire puts a positive spin on it.

The thing that is still holding me back is that Hahn is still quiet on it.  He is the voice of the organization.  Hopefully the coaching staff announcements temper things as well.

Finally....if Bauer signs and it is because of Katz and LaRussa I can live with it.  I still won't be overly excited but it will work.  Oddly I think Katz and LaRussa could be the conduit to make the Bauer pitch every 4th day thing happen. 

I'm glad they went with a 37 year old pitching coach and that gives me hope.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2020 by Harry Chappas

[poppysox]

14 hours ago, Texsox said:

That I was wrong and the company should have fired salespeople and I'm sorry. We will start punishing multiple people at every company someone drives drunk at.

or

I wanted Larussa punished more severely after the first offense and now fired immediately and at the maximum lose his driving privileges for life or at the minimum a breathalyzer be installed in his car.

If six Cardinal employees lost their jobs in 2007 do you seriously think he wouldn't have driven drunk? I believe a more severe punishment for him would have had more of an effect. 

But I guess you think more highly of his moral character than I do. I don't think he gives a shit about anyone as displayed by him accepting the job. Knowing innocent people lost their jobs won't change his behavior. But I hope you are right.

I also don't think JR gives a shit about people. So he won't care either about firing some staff. Behavior won't change and working folks get screwed.

This is just plain wrong.  He is criticized for his loyalty more than anyone I know.