George Springer Thread

[iWiN4PreP]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Springer?

yes

[Y2Jimmy0]

1 hour ago, Orlando said:

We buying this guys?

 

Mets are targeting Realmuto first. I think that’s their focus right now 

[Orlando]

6 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Mets are targeting Realmuto first. I think that’s their focus right now 

I agree

[Chicago White Sox]

42 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

yes

What’s not to like?  Other than not being a lefty, which doesn’t matter when he’s elite against RHP, he marks off every box.

[Orlando]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What’s not to like?  Other than not being a lefty, which doesn’t matter when he’s elite against RHP, he marks off every box.

I love the idea of plugging a genuine star in a hole that the Sox have struggled to plug forever. George Springer would be a dream come true. 

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, Orlando said:

I love the idea of plugging a genuine star in a hole that the Sox have struggled to plug forever. George Springer would be a dream come true. 

Same.

[smellysox]

7 minutes ago, Orlando said:

I love the idea of plugging a genuine star in a hole that the Sox have struggled to plug forever. George Springer would be a dream come true. 

I love that idea too! Lets get him!

[R.J.]

56 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

What makes him a perfect fit????

- From early on in the rebuild, a message was sent that, while payrolls were being kept low, when the team was ready to compete, that the dollars would be there to add premium talent that would push the solid young core over the edge to perennial World Series contenders. The team struck out on Manny Machado, Zach Wheeler, and apparently never even gave Anthony Rendon or Bryce Harper a run. With the team knocking on the door of a championship window, and with RF a gaping hole in the lineup, this is the perfect use of that free agent money we've been told would be there when we needed it.

- There's *no one* in our minor league system that we can reasonably count on to be a staring Right Fielder for the next 2-3 years. Any name you'd argue in favor of would be a huge disappointment for a team that is "going for it." 

- He'll command a 5 year contract that fits with our window. 

- He's expensive, but at ~$120M he's as worth it as paying for a big free agent gets. Even though 31 is older than you'd like for a free agent, that's why you're getting him at that price and not having to go to 7 years or something crazy.

- The contract he'll command seems like the next logical step for a franchise that has been, let's say "careful" with free agent dollars. It should be close to what Wheeler was offered last year. Look, I'd love Trevor Bauer on this team but if he's going over $200M and over 5 years that's not how the White Sox spend their money.

- His game is perfect for literally any lineup, but replacing our RF situation with Springer replaces the biggest offensive weakness with an MVP candidate. Here's where he's rank on our team based on his 202 stats:

Runs: 3rd

Hits: 4th

RBI: 3rd

HR: 2nd

Walks: 3rd

AVG: 4th

OBP: 2nd

SLG: 3rd

OPS+: 3rd

- Please, please do not say anything about him being a right handed hitter. Look at how he does against RHP. 

I don't think we're going to get him, because I don't really see us as a team capable of handing out a big check, but this is a better fit than any other free agent hitter that's been on the market. Plug and play. No one moves positions. Nontender Mazara, Leury is a super UTIL player (and a great one) and Engel is the best 4th OF/defensive replacement in the AL (maybe, I'm not doing research on that). All for around $100M? We've got that money, and it's better than paying for half measures like Pederson or a lesser option like JBJ. Those are consolation prizes, Springer is the big ticket. 

 

[iWiN4PreP]

2 minutes ago, R.J. said:

- From early on in the rebuild, a message was sent that, while payrolls were being kept low, when the team was ready to compete, that the dollars would be there to add premium talent that would push the solid young core over the edge to perennial World Series contenders. The team struck out on Manny Machado, Zach Wheeler, and apparently never even gave Anthony Rendon or Bryce Harper a run. With the team knocking on the door of a championship window, and with RF a gaping hole in the lineup, this is the perfect use of that free agent money we've been told would be there when we needed it.

- There's *no one* in our minor league system that we can reasonably count on to be a staring Right Fielder for the next 2-3 years. Any name you'd argue in favor of would be a huge disappointment for a team that is "going for it." 

- He'll command a 5 year contract that fits with our window. 

- He's expensive, but at ~$120M he's as worth it as paying for a big free agent gets. Even though 31 is older than you'd like for a free agent, that's why you're getting him at that price and not having to go to 7 years or something crazy.

- The contract he'll command seems like the next logical step for a franchise that has been, let's say "careful" with free agent dollars. It should be close to what Wheeler was offered last year. Look, I'd love Trevor Bauer on this team but if he's going over $200M and over 5 years that's not how the White Sox spend their money.

- His game is perfect for literally any lineup, but replacing our RF situation with Springer replaces the biggest offensive weakness with an MVP candidate. Here's where he's rank on our team based on his 202 stats:

Runs: 3rd

Hits: 4th

RBI: 3rd

HR: 2nd

Walks: 3rd

AVG: 4th

OBP: 2nd

SLG: 3rd

OPS+: 3rd

- Please, please do not say anything about him being a right handed hitter. Look at how he does against RHP. 

I don't think we're going to get him, because I don't really see us as a team capable of handing out a big check, but this is a better fit than any other free agent hitter that's been on the market. Plug and play. No one moves positions. Nontender Mazara, Leury is a super UTIL player (and a great one) and Engel is the best 4th OF/defensive replacement in the AL (maybe, I'm not doing research on that). All for around $100M? We've got that money, and it's better than paying for half measures like Pederson or a lesser option like JBJ. Those are consolation prizes, Springer is the big ticket. 

 

Thanks for taking the time to write it up.

I don't really view Springer as the 'perfect' piece. I think OFrs are much easier to find than any other position.

I feel Springer will decline from the moment he signs the contract. We will be locking in 5 years at a pretty high salary for a player north of 30. How good is he going to be this year? next? 

I would be very happy if we get Springer, but I would have loved MAchado/Harper/Bauer/Wheeler/Betts.  Springer to me feels like a second tier that we are going to have to pay up for a lack of production over the contract.

How good of defense is he right now? I can't image at 30+ he's that spectacular.

When other posters say to platoon Pederson+Engel, I think that is pretty much as effective as Springer, no?Or at least close to it.

IDK, I just feel like spending their load on a 30+ OF isn't an ideal usage of the limited moneys we have.

[Dick Allen]

There is no doubt in my mind JR made that coming in 2nd comment.  I don't think he meant it per se although coming in 2nd for their supposed top free agent targets seems to be their fate. Maybe like with the other things the Whit Sox were sensitive enough to mention people thought they would never do but actually did do them (the problem I have is while they did this, they treated it like a bucket list and not a behavior change) maybe they will sign their top target this year  so Hahn can rell us they checked another box.

[Chicago White Sox]

41 minutes ago, Orlando said:

I love the idea of plugging a genuine star in a hole that the Sox have struggled to plug forever. George Springer would be a dream come true. 

100% agree.  And 5/$125M (or less) would be an absolute steal for a free agent of his caliber.  While Anthony Rendon is a better player, he got 7/$245M or a $35M AAV just last year.  Yes, he’s 15 months younger but does he really warrant an AAV 40% higher than George?  Honestly, in a normal environment I would be shocked to see Springer get at least 6/$165M and possibly more.  Add in the cheating baggage with the Astros and we have an opportunity here where a legit star is available at a below market rate.  Teams like the White Sox who are traditionally risk adverse to super long deals (especially with pitchers) need to take advantage of situations like this when they arise.  RF is our last positional hole and we have a perfect free agent waiting to be scooped up.  I really hope Hahn, KW, & Jerry find a way to get this done.

[Chicago White Sox]

31 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Thanks for taking the time to write it up.

I don't really view Springer as the 'perfect' piece. I think OFrs are much easier to find than any other position.

I feel Springer will decline from the moment he signs the contract. We will be locking in 5 years at a pretty high salary for a player north of 30. How good is he going to be this year? next? 

I would be very happy if we get Springer, but I would have loved MAchado/Harper/Bauer/Wheeler/Betts.  Springer to me feels like a second tier that we are going to have to pay up for a lack of production over the contract.

How good of defense is he right now? I can't image at 30+ he's that spectacular.

When other posters say to platoon Pederson+Engel, I think that is pretty much as effective as Springer, no?Or at least close to it.

IDK, I just feel like spending their load on a 30+ OF isn't an ideal usage of the limited moneys we have.

Springer still plays a solid CF and would likely be fantastic in RF.  That also allows Robert to cheat even further over to LF and greatly reduces the ground Eloy needs to cover.

Outside of SP, where else do we need to use our financial resources?  And if Reinsdorf says no to Bauer, what better way is there to spend this money?

[Jack Parkman]

7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Springer still plays a solid CF and would likely be fantastic in RF.  That also allows Robert to cheat even further over to LF and greatly reduces the ground Eloy needs to cover.

Outside of SP, where else do we need to use our financial resources?  And if Reinsdorf says no to Bauer, what better way is there to spend this money?

This is the issue: the Sox need a RF, and they need a LH bat. I don't think that it's a smart idea to lock up all of this money in Springer......I'd go with the Pederson/Engel platoon this year, and hope that someone like Conforto hits the market next year and go give that money to him. If not, then they can figure it out later. 

It is possible that the Sox realize that both Jimenez and Vaughn are DHs long term and they're willing to move Vaughn for an upgrade in SP, while signing Springer for RF and getting someone else to play LF. 

Edited November 28, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[poppysox]

3 hours ago, maloney.adam said:

Not buying it especially with Cohen.

Most people with money didn't get that money being stupid spending it.

[Chicago White Sox]

46 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

There is no doubt in my mind JR made that coming in 2nd comment.  I don't think he meant it per se although coming in 2nd for their supposed top free agent targets seems to be their fate. Maybe like with the other things the Whit Sox were sensitive enough to mention people thought they would never do but actually did do them (the problem I have is while they did this, they treated it like a bucket list and not a behavior change) maybe they will sign their top target this year  so Hahn can rell us they checked another box.

You know how much Hahn wants to say he checked that “$100M free agent box”.  He tried last year with Wheeler and was the high bidder, but lost out for personal reasons.  I still think there is at least enough ammo for one piece in the Springer price range, just got to hope Jerry is willing to risk a little short term pain from COVID for the long term gain.  Logic dictates that  Jerry doesn’t bring on La Russa without being prepared to spend some cash but obviously you never know with this guy.

[Chicago White Sox]

9 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

This is the issue: the Sox need a RF, and they need a LH bat. I don't think that it's a smart idea to lock up all of this money in Springer......I'd go with the Pederson/Engel platoon this year, and hope that someone like Conforto hits the market next year and go give that money to him. If not, then they can figure it out later. 

It is possible that the Sox realize that both Jimenez and Vaughn are DHs long term and they're willing to move Vaughn for an upgrade in SP, while signing Springer for RF and getting someone else to play LF. 

Why do they need a left-handed bat if a righty crushes RHP?  I’ll never understand this argument.

[Jack Parkman]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Why do they need a left-handed bat if a righty crushes RHP?  I’ll never understand this argument.

Because if they have a LH bat then a reliever that is death on righties can stay in the game for a longer period of time. There are pitchers that are death on RHB and get murdered by LHB. It makes them easier to manage against, and it could end up costing them in the playoffs. The Yankees have had a wonderful lineup that's mostly right handed for a few years now, and they get killed in the playoffs because they're too easy to manage against. 

None of their LHBs are as good as a healthy Moncada or Grandal, but you get the point. 

Lack of lineup balance kills you in the late innings where matchups matter so much more. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

Because if they have a LH bat then a reliever that is death on righties can stay in the game for a longer period of time. There are pitchers that are death on RHB and get murdered by LHB. It makes them easier to manage against, and it could end up costing them in the playoffs. 

So Springer can only RHP if they start a game?  That’s your argument?

[Jack Parkman]

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

So Springer can only RHP if they start a game?  That’s your argument?

It goes beyond that. How many RHB do they have in a row before Moncada or Grandal come up? Ideally, you want those guys hitting 2nd and 5th, so from the 6th spot through the leadoff spot you have all RHB. That's easy to manage against. Fewer opportunities for the opposing manager to fuck up. 

[35thstreetswarm]

3 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Because if they have a LH bat then a reliever that is death on righties can stay in the game for a longer period of time. There are pitchers that are death on RHB and get murdered by LHB. It makes them easier to manage against, and it could end up costing them in the playoffs. The Yankees have had a wonderful lineup that's mostly right handed for a few years now, and they get killed in the playoffs because they're too easy to manage against. 

None of their LHBs are as good as a healthy Moncada or Grandal, but you get the point. 

Lack of lineup balance kills you in the late innings where matchups matter so much more. 

I don’t get it.  The argument is this particular rhb doesn’t get killed by pitchers that are typically death on rhb.  

[Orlando]

4 hours ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Thanks for taking the time to write it up.

I don't really view Springer as the 'perfect' piece. I think OFrs are much easier to find than any other position.

I feel Springer will decline from the moment he signs the contract. We will be locking in 5 years at a pretty high salary for a player north of 30. How good is he going to be this year? next? 

I would be very happy if we get Springer, but I would have loved MAchado/Harper/Bauer/Wheeler/Betts.  Springer to me feels like a second tier that we are going to have to pay up for a lack of production over the contract.

How good of defense is he right now? I can't image at 30+ he's that spectacular.

When other posters say to platoon Pederson+Engel, I think that is pretty much as effective as Springer, no?Or at least close to it.

IDK, I just feel like spending their load on a 30+ OF isn't an ideal usage of the limited moneys we have.

This is not really based on anything at all.

[Jack Parkman]

53 minutes ago, Orlando said:

This is not really based on anything at all.

Doesn't Springer strike out a lot? 

It's always worrisome when guys that strike out a lot get north of 30. All of the sudden they can become Adam Dunn. (the 2011 version) 

 

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

I don’t get it.  The argument is this particular rhb doesn’t get killed by pitchers that are typically death on rhb.  

It's not about just that guy. It's about the lineup as a whole. 

Usually relievers that are death on RHB are death on everyone who bats right handed. They don't discriminate. 

My theory is that Springer kills RH starters but does worse against RH relievers. 

Plus this lineup strikes out way too much and Springer just adds to that. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[fathom]

11 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

It's not about just that guy. It's about the lineup as a whole. 

Usually relievers that are death on RHB are death on everyone who bats right handed. They don't discriminate. 

My theory is that Springer kills RH starters but does worse against RH relievers. 

Plus this lineup strikes out way too much and Springer just adds to that. 

Come on, simple look at stats would show you Springer would have the best K rate besides Madrigal on the team last year from the main guys.

[Chicago White Sox]

48 minutes ago, fathom said:

Come on, simple look at stats would show you Springer would have the best K rate besides Madrigal on the team last year from the main guys.

Amazing...we are lucky to have fathom on this site.