flavum Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Buehrle would get my vote. My unapologetic ballot if I had a vote: Curt Schilling, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Omar Vizquel, Scott Rolen, Todd Helton, Jeff Kent, Manny Ramirez, Tim Hudson, Mark Buehrle My no's: Billy Wagner, Gary Sheffield, Andruw Jones, Sammy Sosa, Andy Pettitte, Bobby Abreu, Torii Hunter, Aramis Ramirez Who you got? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 None of them roiders 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaroldSouthside Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Beuhrle, Schilling, Vizquel, Rolen, Andruw Jones are my yes. pettitte is the only one I’m just not sure about. He is a maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Gary Sheffield Jeff Kent Billy Wagner Manny Ramirez Veteran decisions eventually on Bonds, Clemens and Sosa (and McGwire). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Kent, Wagner, Vizquel ,Helton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YourWhatHurts Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Buerhle should be on there. I would love to see him get in. Andruw Jones as well. And I think Vizquel and Rolen too. Some of the rest of the guys I would have to look at their numbers. But what Buehrle was able to do with his stuff with his career was really one of the most remarkable things I've seen as a fan. He was really the ultimate outlier. He never should have made it but he did, and he threw 2 no-nos including a perfecto, pitched all those years and innings, made people really respect his abilities, etc. Won a WS, saved a WS, and a great fielding P with maybe the most incredible defensive plays / athletic feats on defense you will ever see a P make. Controlled the running game excellently, and like Hawk says, one of the best teammates anyone could ever had. And he never lost his childlike qualities either. Love MB and I hope he gets into the HOF. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt3515 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 As much as I love Buehrle I just don't see the voters giving him a vote, he doesn't have the sexy stats they all love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle5687 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, BigHurt3515 said: As much as I love Buehrle I just don't see the voters giving him a vote, he doesn't have the sexy stats they all love. I think he has a decent shot. All the blatant roiders are gonna put him on the bubble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Mark's my favorite baseball player of all time but I wouldn't vote him in. That said, this is probably the best chance he could have asked for with the way the ballot shaped up this year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hawk Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 I love Buehrle. He's not a HOFer. I feel the same about Paulie. Maybe down the road when the stench of the roid cheaters is gone from baseball? OF the guys on that list, my only HOF pick is Omar Visquel. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 There isn't really anyone on that list that I would say screams that they must be an absolute HOFer. I think if I had to pick some, Andruw Jones and Billy Wagner would top my list. I think Schilling kind of fit into the Harold Baines feeling of close but not quite (at least until Jerry got him in) I love Mark Buehrle, but I just can't squint and see it. I would never vote for Bonds, Clemens, Sheffield, Sosa, and Manny because of their peak drug usage. A.J. Burnett, Michael Cuddyer, Dan Haren, LaTroy Hawkins, Nick Swisher, Shane Victorino and Barry Zito should be one ballot and off guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted November 17, 2020 Author Share Posted November 17, 2020 If you dig into the numbers and the era the players are from, Buehrle deserves more recognition than Konerko. They shouldn’t be paired together as the same level of HOF consideration. Buehrle, Hudson, and Sabathia (eventually) are HOF pitchers of their era, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hawk Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, flavum said: If you dig into the numbers and the era the players are from, Buehrle deserves more recognition than Konerko. They shouldn’t be paired together as the same level of HOF consideration. Buehrle, Hudson, and Sabathia (eventually) are HOF pitchers of their era, in my opinion. Why do you say that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted November 17, 2020 Author Share Posted November 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, The Hawk said: Why do you say that? Short answer- Konerko is kinda like Mark Teixeira or Bobby Abreu. Great careers, but short of HOF in my opinion. Buehrle, as a pitcher from his era, compiled 15 years of durability, the no hitters, the 05 postseason was good, the fielding was outstanding, and he’s a quality human being if you’re going down that path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Came across a Cardinals fan post about MB " Since 1999 he's 5th in wins and the only guys who might pass him are Greinke, Scherzer, and Kershaw. In that same period he's 2nd in IP with only Verlander & Greinke likely to pass him, he's 12th in fWAR behind 8 HoFers and in line with Oswalt, Felix, and (bizarrely) Javier Vazquez. And fWAR underrates him because his combination of skill at shutting down the running game and fielding his position mean that FIP underrates him significantly - he's got an entire Cy Young season worth of extra bWAR, which uses RA instead of FIP. His BREF similar pitcher list is a couple of HoFers and a bunch fo guys who are either right on the cusp or legitimately the two biggest omissions in HoF history for SP. Add in the no-no, the perfecto, the title that he led the team to (saving Game 3 with a buzz after winning Game 2), and most importantly the 14 consecutive seasons with 200+ IP, and that's a Hall of Famer. Every motherfucker who b****es about WAR being too heavily relied upon in any baseball/HoF debate needs to be banging the drum loudly for Buehrle to get in or reveal themselves as rank hypocrites." 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hawk Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Just now, flavum said: Short answer- Konerko is kinda like Mark Teixeira or Bobby Abreu. Great careers, but short of HOF in my opinion. Buehrle, as a pitcher from his era, compiled 15 years of durability, the no hitters, the 05 postseason was good, the fielding was outstanding, and he’s a quality human being if you’re going down that path. The reasons why you gave for not having Paulie in the HOF are the same ones that Buehrle has in my opinion. He never came close to being a twenty game winner in his time in the league. He was great given the stuff that the had or rather what he didn't have. He was a war horse who gave you a great chance to win a game when he pitched. Paulie, to me, really has a better chance of getting into the HOF when the voters consider his power numbers in an era where steroids was prevalent. His season in 2005 was his best and his post season was also terrific. Both of these men were terrific role models for younger players to look at and admire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 How many people can they vote for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle5687 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) Player Career WAR Barry Bonds 162.8 Rodger Clemens 138.7 Curt Schilling 80.5 Scott Rolen 70.1 Manny Ramirez 69.3 Andruw Jones 62.7 Todd Helton 61.8 Andy Pettitte 60.7 Gary Sheffield 60.5 Bobby Abreu 60.2 Mark Buehrle 60.0 Sammy Sosa 58.6 Tim Hudson 56.5 Jeff Kent 55.4 Torii Hunter 50.7 Omar Vizquel 45.6 Barry Zito 33.1 Dan Haren 32.9 Aramis Ramirez 32.4 Shane Victorino 31.5 AJ Burnett 29.6 Billy Wagner 28.7 Nick Swisher 21.4 LaTroy Hawkins 18.0 Michael Cuddyer 17.7 HOFer Bruce Sutter Career WAR 24 Steroids Buehrle is in the middle of the pack, but if you remove the roiders, he has a shot. Edited November 17, 2020 by Buehrle5687 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 My ballot: Bonds and Clemens. I have a stricter criteria than most, believe most veterans committee and a few BBWAA elected players shouldn’t be in. If you have to think about it / it’s not a no brainer, the player should likely not be in the HOF. That said, I’m fine with Bonds and Clemens waiting until Veterans Committee eligibility before entering. That will likely be how it goes down. Just feel the two were HOFers with or without steroids, and career long cheating hasn’t disqualified players like Gaylord Perry. I also understand completely why people would leave them off their ballot, and wouldn’t argue on their behalf. Think Pete Rose should be allowed in perhaps after he passes, especially in light of the fact MLB is fully immersed in gambling. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted November 17, 2020 Author Share Posted November 17, 2020 9 minutes ago, Leonard Zelig said: How many people can they vote for? 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 I don't think Buehrle was a deserving HOFer, but I would really like to see him stay on the ballot for a number of years, so that we can develop some better context for his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 22 minutes ago, The Hawk said: The reasons why you gave for not having Paulie in the HOF are the same ones that Buehrle has in my opinion. He never came close to being a twenty game winner in his time in the league. He was great given the stuff that the had or rather what he didn't have. He was a war horse who gave you a great chance to win a game when he pitched. Paulie, to me, really has a better chance of getting into the HOF when the voters consider his power numbers in an era where steroids was prevalent. His season in 2005 was his best and his post season was also terrific. Both of these men were terrific role models for younger players to look at and admire. Paul Konerko already had his shot and did not receive a high enough number of votes to continue on the ballot this year. https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/white-sox/paul-konerko-misses-out-2020-hall-fame-falls-ballot-after-receiving-25-vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted November 17, 2020 Author Share Posted November 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: I don't think Buehrle was a deserving HOFer, but I would really like to see him stay on the ballot for a number of years, so that we can develop some better context for his career. Good post. If Bobby Abreu got 5% last year, I really hope for the same for Buehrle this year. The way things are going in baseball, seeing 14 years of 200+ innings after the year 2000 is going to be hard to ignore as years go by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EloyJenkins Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 The Hall of Awesome and really, really good should open and Make Buehrle be their inaugural inductee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, flavum said: Good post. If Bobby Abreu got 5% last year, I really hope for the same for Buehrle this year. The way things are going in baseball, seeing 14 years of 200+ innings after the year 2000 is going to be hard to ignore as years go by. If people like Felix Hernandez, Cole Hamels start coming in and people start giving them large vote fractions, that would make it pretty hard to not put Mark! in first. Scherzer, Kershaw, and Greinke already have far more WAR accumulated than Mark! and seem deserving HOF candidates. Beyond that, Sale and DeGrom have enough WAR that they could feasibly challenge for 60+ in a few years, but obviously that depends on health esp. for Sale. Beyond them, the next guy on the list who might even have a shot at those numbers looks like Cole, and he's more than half a career away. You could legitimately be looking in 8-9 years at saying "hmph, Mark! was one of the last really good starting pitchers and his numbers are so far beyond what we're seeing from Starters today...maybe we should put him in". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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