2021 Hall of Fame Ballot

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, pmb0928 said:

Cancel culture strikes again. Don't agree with someone's politics and you get cancelled. Schilling will never get in and its too bad. Curt just needs to put some pictures of himself wearing a Biden shirt and he will get like 95% of the vote next year.

It is sad we are actually letting whether you are a Dem or  Rep determine whether you get into the HOF. Lets be honest, they both kind of suck. Free Speech used to be a pretty good thing in this country.

And Jeff Kent I guess wasnt flashy enough either. Didnt kiss enough reporter ass apparently. His numbers are the best ever for 2nd basemen. He has the most HRs at 2B and has more RBIs than Mickey Mantle, Vlad Guerrero, Mark Mcgwire. Kind of crazy

 

If I had a dollar for every time someone misused freedom of speech to mean freedom from consequences...

[southsider2k5]

And for the record "integrity" and "character" ARE on the MLB list of traits that voters are to consider.

[Chisoxfn]

7 hours ago, pmb0928 said:

Cancel culture strikes again. Don't agree with someone's politics and you get cancelled. Schilling will never get in and its too bad. Curt just needs to put some pictures of himself wearing a Biden shirt and he will get like 95% of the vote next year.

It is sad we are actually letting whether you are a Dem or  Rep determine whether you get into the HOF. Lets be honest, they both kind of suck. Free Speech used to be a pretty good thing in this country.

And Jeff Kent I guess wasnt flashy enough either. Didnt kiss enough reporter ass apparently. His numbers are the best ever for 2nd basemen. He has the most HRs at 2B and has more RBIs than Mickey Mantle, Vlad Guerrero, Mark Mcgwire. Kind of crazy

 

I don’t remember anymore whether Jeff Kent was every actually hit by steroids, but as a player he was one of, if not the greatest offensive 2nd basemen of all time. Nearly 400 hrs, 50 plus WAR. Top at his position in the league for a long time - seems like a sure fire HOF to me. 

[Dominikk85]

9 hours ago, pmb0928 said:

Cancel culture strikes again. Don't agree with someone's politics and you get cancelled. Schilling will never get in and its too bad. Curt just needs to put some pictures of himself wearing a Biden shirt and he will get like 95% of the vote next year.

It is sad we are actually letting whether you are a Dem or  Rep determine whether you get into the HOF. Lets be honest, they both kind of suck. Free Speech used to be a pretty good thing in this country.

And Jeff Kent I guess wasnt flashy enough either. Didnt kiss enough reporter ass apparently. His numbers are the best ever for 2nd basemen. He has the most HRs at 2B and has more RBIs than Mickey Mantle, Vlad Guerrero, Mark Mcgwire. Kind of crazy

 

While I also think that schilling should get in as there are plenty of racists in the hall I wouldn't just call that political views, schilling is very right wing and has expressed especially intolerant views of trans people and called people who object gay slurs as "snowflakes". For many that has crossed some red lines.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

11 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

And for the record "integrity" and "character" ARE on the MLB list of traits that voters are to consider.

So because he is republican, and didn't support kneeling, this makes him racist?  It's a joke he didn't get in.

[Texsox]

3 hours ago, Dominikk85 said:

While I also think that schilling should get in as there are plenty of racists in the hall I wouldn't just call that political views, schilling is very right wing and has expressed especially intolerant views of trans people and called people who object gay slurs as "snowflakes". For many that has crossed some red lines.

Baseball should honor him as an example of the people baseball considers great. Any kid visiting the hall should aspire to be just like him. He's a great example of why baseball is America's game and all baseball fans should be proud to be associated with him and glad he chose baseball. He can stand proudly besides Clemente and Robinson. 

Here's an idea. As an alternate to fame,  open up a hall of great stats. Pick an objective list of advanced metrics you believe a player should reach,  and skip the voting. It would also be fitting to keep it virtual only. Leave the Hall of Fame for humans that are actually worth MLB honoring. 

[CentralChamps21]

4 hours ago, Dominikk85 said:

While I also think that schilling should get in as there are plenty of racists in the hall I wouldn't just call that political views, schilling is very right wing and has expressed especially intolerant views of trans people and called people who object gay slurs as "snowflakes". For many that has crossed some red lines.

I think athletes deserve a good amount of leeway when it comes to political views. Calling people snowflakes doesn't cross that line for me, and like it or not, failing to accept trans people is a common conservative religious view. Where he crossed the line for me is past tweets that appear to condone harming journalists, and supporting the Jan 6 Capitol riots. That's going beyond political views to endorsing violence. I'm fine with keeping Schilling out for that, but also don't want this to be a slippery slope into keeping out anybody who ever expressed conservative political views.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

2 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

I think athletes deserve a good amount of leeway when it comes to political views. Calling people snowflakes doesn't cross that line for me, and like it or not, failing to accept trans people is a common conservative religious view. Where he crossed the line for me is past tweets that appear to condone harming journalists, and supporting the Jan 6 Capitol riots. That's going beyond political views to endorsing violence. I'm fine with keeping Schilling out for that, but also don't want this to be a slippery slope into keeping out anybody who ever expressed conservative political views.

It has already become a slippery slope of making your political views matter.  He should be in.

[NWINFan]

I am glad that Shilling isn't in and probably never will be. He advocates violence and hatred. He is not being persecuted for anything. Right now congressmen and their families are getting death threats. The political atmosphere is poisonous and we had a president who tried to stage a coup. 

There are plenty of conservatives out there and I am sure many play major league sports. I am sure many are in the Hall of Fame. Regardless, shouting fire in a crowded theatre is not a right.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

So because he is republican, and didn't support kneeling, this makes him racist?  It's a joke he didn't get in.

Actually it was the support of sedition and insurrection that seemed to make the difference.

[Kyyle23]

2 hours ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

So because he is republican, and didn't support kneeling, this makes him racist?  It's a joke he didn't get in.

Actually the fact that he is racist makes him a racist.  It didn't start when he got banned from Twitter.  He had the gall to say because he never heard someone call Adam Jones a n***** that it didn't happen, and he has heard it out of African American players mouths so it must be fine.  Shares memes with hitler all over them, says Muslims are nazis, openly has come out for the Muslim ban, building the wall.

the guy has quite a history of it.  Google will show you if you want to know.  This isn't cancel culture, he had all kinds of time to stop doing his bullshit, lost multiple jobs because of it and decided to double down.  Fuck him

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

3 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Actually the fact that he is racist makes him a racist.  It didn't start when he got banned from Twitter.  He had the gall to say because he never heard someone call Adam Jones a n***** that it didn't happen, and he has heard it out of African American players mouths so it must be fine.  Shares memes with hitler all over them, says Muslims are nazis, openly has come out for the Muslim ban, building the wall.

the guy has quite a history of it.  Google will show you if you want to know.  This isn't cancel culture, he had all kinds of time to stop doing his bullshit, lost multiple jobs because of it and decided to double down.  Fuck him

hmm, if he says the N****** word, sure I am with you, that would be racist.  But I wouldn't at all call a muslim ban (during middle east unrest), and building a wall racist. Because it isn't. But sure, if he says N*****, then yeah he's racist.  What do we do about all the other racist baseball players that are in the hall of fame?  Probably all of them prior 1960? If I was a voter, I vote for the player.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Squirmin' for Yermin

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

hmm, if he says the N****** word, sure I am with you, that would be racist.  But I wouldn't at all call a muslim ban (during middle east unrest), and building a wall racist. Because it isn't. But sure, if he says N*****, then yeah he's racist.  What do we do about all the other racist baseball players that are in the hall of fame?  Probably all of them prior 1960? If I was a voter, I vote for the player.

I shouldn't have responded, you clearly don't understand 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

8 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I shouldn't have responded, you clearly don't understand 

Guess so.

[flavum]

If Buehrle, Hudson, and Hunter were the only clear newcomers to at least consider, next year is quite the bumper crop of really good players.

Arod, Ortiz, Rollins and Teixeira are probably the top 4, but here's who else will be on the ballot:

Tim Lincecum, Justin Morneau, Joe Nathan, Jonathan Papelbon, Ryan Howard, Prince Fielder, Carl Crawford, AJ Pierzynski, Jake Peavy

We're crossing over to the long career vs the high peak guys.  I think they blew it with Johan Santana and Roy Oswalt falling off the ballot too soon. 

Edited January 27, 2021 by flavum

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, flavum said:

If Buehrle, Hudson, and Hunter were the only clear newcomers to at least consider, next year is quite the bumper crop of really good players.

Arod, Ortiz, Rollins and Teixeira are probably the top 4, but here's who else will be on the ballot:

Tim Lincecum, Justin Morneau, Joe Nathan, Jonathan Papelbon, Ryan Howard, Prince Fielder, Carl Crawford, AJ Pierzynski

We're crossing over to the long career vs the high peak guys.  I think they blew it with Johan Santana and Roy Oswalt falling off the ballot too soon. 

Arod and Ortiz are going to run into the same thing that lots of the other steroid guys ran into.

[flavum]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

Arod and Ortiz are going to run into the same thing that lots of the other steroid guys ran into.

Obviously, but they will get votes. Manny just got 28.2%, and he was suspended twice after testing started.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, flavum said:

Obviously, but they will get votes. Manny just got 28.2%, and he was suspended twice after testing started.

Definitely, but it will also probably jam up the ballot again with guys who get significant amounts of vote, but not enough to get elected.

[fathom]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Arod and Ortiz are going to run into the same thing that lots of the other steroid guys ran into.

Shrunken testicles?

[flavum]

I think Ortiz will fare much better than Arod because of the timing of the failed test, and because of the supposed anonymous test in 2003.

My too early 2022 ballot:

Schilling, Bonds, Clemens, Rolen, Helton, Kent, Buehrle, Hudson, Ortiz, Rollins

[South Side Hit Men]

The players I’d vote for at this point who have retired or have done enough to likely finish as HOF eligible based on performance: 

• C Mauer
• 1B Pujols & Cabrera
• 2B Cano
• 3B Beltre
• SS Rodriguez
• LF Bonds
• CF Trout
• SP Clemens, Greinke, Kershaw, Scherzer, Schilling, Verlander
• RF & RP None

/ballot, would check back in 2030 to see who earned a case since.

[flavum]

7 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

The players I’d vote for at this point who have retired or have done enough to likely finish as HOF eligible based on performance: 

• C Mauer
• 1B Pujols & Cabrera
• 2B Cano
• 3B Beltre
• SS Rodriguez
• LF Bonds
• CF Trout
• SP Clemens, Greinke, Kershaw, Scherzer, Schilling, Verlander
• RF & RP None

/ballot, would check back in 2030 to see who earned a case since.

Good list, but I would disqualify Cano and Arod, and I'm dumping Manny going forward.  Among players that debuted after 1999, I'd add Ichiro, Sabathia, Molina, and probably Utley. I would want Roy Oswalt and Johan Santana reinstated on the ballot.

[jasonxctf]

Schilling also didnt get in the HOF before Trump either. Guy only broke 50% 1 time in his first 5 years. 

He's been on a slow and steady climb since year 6, but lets not act like he's a victim since the beginning. Most guys dont need 8/9/10 years on the ballot to sneak in.

[Vulture]

25 minutes ago, jasonxctf said:

Schilling also didnt get in the HOF before Trump either. Guy only broke 50% 1 time in his first 5 years. 

He's been on a slow and steady climb since year 6, but lets not act like he's a victim since the beginning. Most guys dont need 8/9/10 years on the ballot to sneak in.

His 80 career war plus his post season record says he’s a hall of famer. He was being dinged for his behavior even before Trump.

[kleedawg]

19 hours ago, pmb0928 said:

Cancel culture strikes again. Don't agree with someone's politics and you get cancelled. Schilling will never get in and its too bad. Curt just needs to put some pictures of himself wearing a Biden shirt and he will get like 95% of the vote next year.

It is sad we are actually letting whether you are a Dem or  Rep determine whether you get into the HOF. Lets be honest, they both kind of suck. Free Speech used to be a pretty good thing in this country.

And Jeff Kent I guess wasnt flashy enough either. Didn't kiss enough reporter ass apparently. His numbers are the best ever for 2nd basemen. He has the most HRs at 2B and has more RBIs than Mickey Mantle, Vlad Guerrero, Mark Mcgwire. Kind of crazy

 

Schilling being a republican did not keep him from being elected. Saying stuff that is bat shit crazy and racially insensitive may have had something to do with it. Supporting an insurrection may have rubbed people the wrong way as well. There are and will be plenty of Republicans in the HOF.