2021 Hall of Fame Ballot

[flavum]

On 11/17/2020 at 10:48 AM, flavum said:

Buehrle would get my vote.

My unapologetic ballot if I had a vote:

Curt Schilling, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Omar Vizquel, Scott Rolen, Todd Helton, Jeff Kent, Manny Ramirez, Tim Hudson, Mark Buehrle

My no's:

Billy Wagner, Gary Sheffield, Andruw Jones, Sammy Sosa, Andy Pettitte, Bobby Abreu, Torii Hunter, Aramis Ramirez

Who you got?

Bruce Miles voted for Buehrle. His ballot will probably be closest to mine. I have Hudson and Kent. He has Pettitte and Wagner.

[ChiSox1917]

On 11/17/2020 at 11:48 AM, flavum said:

 

Buehrle would get my vote.

My unapologetic ballot if I had a vote:

Curt Schilling, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Omar Vizquel, Scott Rolen, Todd Helton, Jeff Kent, Manny Ramirez, Tim Hudson, Mark Buehrle

My no's:

Billy Wagner, Gary Sheffield, Andruw Jones, Sammy Sosa, Andy Pettitte, Bobby Abreu, Torii Hunter, Aramis Ramirez

Who you got?

Bonds, buerhle, clemens, helton, jones, manny, schilling, sosa, vizquel, sheffield

[Texsox]

On 11/17/2020 at 12:08 PM, southsider2k5 said:

 

I would never vote for Bonds, Clemens, Sheffield, Sosa, and Manny because of their peak drug usage.

 

Agreed.  They tarnished the game.  

I then flip that around and want to see the Baines' and Buehrles in the hall.  They polished the game and made it bright and shiney. I picture a grandfather and grandson visiting the hall and taking about the players. I don't want to be explaining about gambling and drug usage,  I'd rather the kids hear stories about Mark. Baseball is a better sport because Mark played. His character should count. It's not the Hall of Great Stats. Fame  should be more than stats. 

[ChiSox1917]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

Agreed.  They tarnished the game.  

I then flip that around and want to see the Baines' and Buehrles in the hall.  They polished the game and made it bright and shiney. I picture a grandfather and grandson visiting the hall and taking about the players. I don't want to be explaining about gambling and drug usage,  I'd rather the kids hear stories about Mark. Baseball is a better sport because Mark played. His character should count. It's not the Hall of Great Stats. Fame  should be more than stats. 

Barf

Its a hall of fame. Not a hall of role models. 

[Texsox]

7 hours ago, ChiSox1917 said:

 

 

Vomit lol

 

It's also not a Hall of Great Stats.  If that was the case pick a few key stats by position and just have players qualify.  It's a Hall of Fame that celebrates the game of baseball. It's the showcase for the sport that serves up a giant commercial on why baseball is America's game.  

 

It seems that Mark has several notable achievements to his credit. 

 

Fame

noun

1. the state of being known or talked about by many people, especially on account of notable achievements.

   "winning the Olympic title has brought her fame and fortune"

    

    

[flavum]

14 hours ago, ChiSox1917 said:

Barf

Its a hall of fame. Not a hall of role models. 

It can be both. To be honest, I said I would vote for Manny, but he’s no different than Braun and Cano failing tests after the Mitchell Report. I’d probably go with Wagner...he wouldn’t be the first reliever to get in that was borderline. 

[flavum]

So far, some really weird ballots out there. Maybe nobody gets to 75% this time which would really not help the logjam. (Hashtag-change the process)

[runtheballdown]

I don’t think anybody gets in.

[South Side Hit Men]

56 minutes ago, flavum said:

So far, some really weird ballots out there. Maybe nobody gets to 75% this time which would really not help the logjam. (Hashtag-change the process)

I’m ok with an average of one inductee per year average. A majority of veterans committee inductees were mistakes/reaches, diluting the quality over the years. Many were crony picks, through Baines.

The BBHOF should be reserved for the best players in each generation, 12-15 at each position (100), 60 starters and maybe 5-10 relievers over the first 150 years of professional baseball.

The other three sports HOFs are even more diluted, don’t want to continue trending in that direction.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by South Side Hit Men

[Chicago White Sox]

On 12/9/2020 at 9:29 PM, ChiSox1917 said:

Barf

Its a hall of fame. Not a hall of role models. 

Role models?  They legit fucking cheated.  Why should they be celebrated?

[ChiSox1917]

6 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Role models?  They legit fucking cheated.  Why should they be celebrated?

You want to kick out all the cheaters in the hof?

[ron883]

Interesting thought - do you think any 2018 Astros will be held out due to this? I doubt Verlander will because he is a pitcher and was already a HOFer before the scandal. Altuve has HOF numbers. I wonder if the scandal will keep him out. 

[South Side Hit Men]

On 12/15/2020 at 12:26 AM, ChiSox1917 said:

You want to kick out all the cheaters in the hof?

Tony LaRussa demands his cheaters are inducted, Jerry will make it happen. In fact, LaRussa himself was a cheater from his first job until his last, will sully the 2021 White Sox if he's alive and manager by the time the team takes the field.

 

 

 

 

[Balta1701]

17 hours ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Interesting thought - do you think any 2018 Astros will be held out due to this? I doubt Verlander will because he is a pitcher and was already a HOFer before the scandal. Altuve has HOF numbers. I wonder if the scandal will keep him out. 

Altuve currently has 36 career rWAR and 1600 career hits. If we want to think of him a a HOF, he needs to nearly double those, either push 3000 hits or 60 WAR. He’s 30 years old, so we would need to be talking about him as a 4 WAR player or better at age 35-36, and his last 2 seasons have been a big step down. As of right now, he looks to be on the path where he’s not quite good enough to raise the question. Another MVP caliber season and maybe you can more realistically ask it.

[ron883]

10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Altuve currently has 36 career rWAR and 1600 career hits. If we want to think of him a a HOF, he needs to nearly double those, either push 3000 hits or 60 WAR. He’s 30 years old, so we would need to be talking about him as a 4 WAR player or better at age 35-36, and his last 2 seasons have been a big step down. As of right now, he looks to be on the path where he’s not quite good enough to raise the question. Another MVP caliber season and maybe you can more realistically ask it.

He's an MVP and a 3-time batting champ. There aren't many guys with that resume that DON'T get in. He obviously can't fall off a cliff production wise, but he doesn't need to double his stats to get in. 

[South Side Hit Men]

10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Altuve currently has 36 career rWAR and 1600 career hits. If we want to think of him a a HOF, he needs to nearly double those, either push 3000 hits or 60 WAR. He’s 30 years old, so we would need to be talking about him as a 4 WAR player or better at age 35-36, and his last 2 seasons have been a big step down. As of right now, he looks to be on the path where he’s not quite good enough to raise the question. Another MVP caliber season and maybe you can more realistically ask it.

Baines has a 38.7 rWAR, played until he was 42 and still was far removed from 3,000 hits yet he is in. If Altuve retires today, he is still a better HOF candidate than Harold Baines, with a 35.7 JAWS and 41st all time among 2B vs. Harold Baines' 30.1 JAWS, 74th among RFs. Shin-Soo Choo and Brian Jordan are better qualified and nobody thinks of them as Hall of Fame players either.

[MiddleCoastBias]

17 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Baines has a 38.7 rWAR, played until he was 42 and still was far removed from 3,000 hits yet he is in. If Altuve retires today, he is still a better HOF candidate than Harold Baines, with a 35.7 JAWS and 41st all time among 2B vs. Harold Baines' 30.1 JAWS, 74th among RFs. Shin-Soo Choo and Brian Jordan are better qualified and nobody thinks of them as Hall of Fame players either.

No one actually THINGS Baines made the Hall strictly on his merits, or really even deserves to be there. 

Just because they made the mistake with him doesn't mean they need to make another mistake and let in another undeserving player in Altuve.

[soxfan49]

Before steroids, Bonds was going to finish his career with 500 HR's, 3k hits, 500 SB's and 8 GG's

Yeah, he should be in

[Dam8610]

To call back to an old board meme...

 

MBIAHOF!

[flavum]

So the "brilliant" Jay Jaffe with a terrible ballot. 

Please change the process. It's so ridiculous.

[Lonchair]

On 11/17/2020 at 1:20 PM, Buehrle>Wood said:

Came across a Cardinals fan post about MB

 

"

Since 1999 he's 5th in wins and the only guys who might pass him are Greinke, Scherzer, and Kershaw. In that same period he's 2nd in IP with only Verlander & Greinke likely to pass him, he's 12th in fWAR behind 8 HoFers and in line with Oswalt, Felix, and (bizarrely) Javier Vazquez. And fWAR underrates him because his combination of skill at shutting down the running game and fielding his position mean that FIP underrates him significantly - he's got an entire Cy Young season worth of extra bWAR, which uses RA instead of FIP. His BREF similar pitcher list is a couple of HoFers and a bunch fo guys who are either right on the cusp or legitimately the two biggest omissions in HoF history for SP. Add in the no-no, the perfecto, the title that he led the team to (saving Game 3 with a buzz after winning Game 2), and most importantly the 14 consecutive seasons with 200+ IP, and that's a Hall of Famer.

Every motherfucker who b****es about WAR being too heavily relied upon in any baseball/HoF debate needs to be banging the drum loudly for Buehrle to get in or reveal themselves as rank hypocrites."

Besides agreeing that Buehrle should get in down the road, my favorite part of the above quote is that the person decided to **** b**** & leave in mother fucker. Is Samuel Jackson a Sox fan?

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, Lonchair said:

Besides agreeing that Buehrle should get in down the road, my favorite part of the above quote is that the person decided to **** b**** & leave in mother fucker. Is Samuel Jackson a Sox fan?

Lol they must have the same issue that we have.  The word b**** is permanently stuck in our swear filter 

[Kyyle23]

37 minutes ago, flavum said:

So the "brilliant" Jay Jaffe with a terrible ballot. 

Please change the process. It's so ridiculous.

I'm all for it, put the juicers in. Hell yea Jaffe 

[ron883]

3 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I'm all for it, put the juicers in. Hell yea Jaffe 

Agreed. It's ridiculous that people act like they know who did and didn't do steroids. Many of the "clean" guys may have been roiding their asses off, and we just didn't know. 

[Kyyle23]

11 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Agreed. It's ridiculous that people act like they know who did and didn't do steroids. Many of the "clean" guys may have been roiding their asses off, and we just didn't know. 

The Nintendo numbers of that time period were off the wall nuts for the whole league.   And they certainly didn't disqualify previous generations for suspected roids and greenies and cocaine and everything else.