Judge Tony LaRussa by results, not process

[VAfan]

Not that we need another TLR thread, but I just want to say my peace where it might get noticed. 

Tony LaRussa was hired for one purpose - to help the Sox win playoff appearances, Division titles, Pennants, and World Series Championships.  No one alive today has won more of those things in baseball than Tony LaRussa.

Yet, the fanbase and commentators across baseball have widely derided this hire as a massive mistake by the White Sox. 

LaRussa himself has been criticized as: 1) out of touch with today's athletes, and the Sox players in particular, 2) unable to incorporate modern analytics into his managing, 3) racist for his early rejection of kneeling during the national anthem, 4) incompetent because he hadn't called his players as soon as he was announced as manager, 5) a relic of the past because he hasn't managed since 2011, 6) too old, 7) a drunken irresponsible person for getting a second DUI arrest, and many other things. 

Sox fans and others have also derided the process by which he was hired, as an edict from Jerry Reinsdorf that in their eyes directly contradicted Rick Hahn's wishes, thereby neutering Hahn's role with the Sox going forward. These commentators refuse to take Hahn's comments during the press conference announcing LaRussa at face value, assuming he was lying to cover up a broken process. 

I think nearly all of that is irrelevant.

Tony LaRussa may or may not succeed as the Sox' manager in 2021 and beyond. But he should not be judged on the process. He should be judged on whether he gets the results he was hired to achieve - playoff appearances, division titles, pennants, and WS championships. 

The man has managed 5097 games. 

His teams have made the playoffs 14 times in 33 seasons. They have 6 pennants and 3 World Series titles. He won the World Series with an 83-win and a 90-win Cardinals team, which suggests he doesn't need the most dominant team in baseball to win it all. He's had a winning record at all three stops - Sox, A's, Cardinals. 

Whatever process Tony LaRussa has used to achieve these milestones, with 33 different collections of players, is okay by me. I defer to his expertise and experience in these matters, because like every other fan and commentator on TLR, I've never managed a major league baseball team or game, and I don't pretend to know more than the guy who is third all-time (about to be second, and the only one to manage during an integrated league) in managing major league games. 

If you are so disgusted with the Sox over this hire that you want to boycott the team or the games, or give up your fandom, that is your right. And you can continue voicing your criticism of this hire if you like till the cows come home.  

For me, it's all about the Ws, especially during crunch time. That's where Rick Renteria failed, and it's why he had to go. I expect Tony LaRussa will get better results. 

[southsider2k5]

So far the results are that we are the laughing stock of baseball, a major free agent said he wouldn't sign here, and a top coaching choice wouldn't come here.  Smashing successes so far.

[Tnetennba]

Nope.  The process is, was, and always will be completely fucked up.  Our concerns are not irrelevant, despite knowing we are stuck with him.  The Sox might win with TLR, but I will never be ok with the hire.  The ramifications of which are still yet to play out completely.  

[RagahRagah]

This thread title literally goes against logic 101.

[Balta1701]

Notable results

1. Damaged car.

[bmags]

No

[The Hawk]

33 minutes ago, VAfan said:

Not that we need another TLR thread, but I just want to say my peace where it might get noticed. 

Tony LaRussa was hired for one purpose - to help the Sox win playoff appearances, Division titles, Pennants, and World Series Championships.  No one alive today has won more of those things in baseball than Tony LaRussa.

Yet, the fanbase and commentators across baseball have widely derided this hire as a massive mistake by the White Sox. 

LaRussa himself has been criticized as: 1) out of touch with today's athletes, and the Sox players in particular, 2) unable to incorporate modern analytics into his managing, 3) racist for his early rejection of kneeling during the national anthem, 4) incompetent because he hadn't called his players as soon as he was announced as manager, 5) a relic of the past because he hasn't managed since 2011, 6) too old, 7) a drunken irresponsible person for getting a second DUI arrest, and many other things. 

Sox fans and others have also derided the process by which he was hired, as an edict from Jerry Reinsdorf that in their eyes directly contradicted Rick Hahn's wishes, thereby neutering Hahn's role with the Sox going forward. These commentators refuse to take Hahn's comments during the press conference announcing LaRussa at face value, assuming he was lying to cover up a broken process. 

I think nearly all of that is irrelevant.

Tony LaRussa may or may not succeed as the Sox' manager in 2021 and beyond. But he should not be judged on the process. He should be judged on whether he gets the results he was hired to achieve - playoff appearances, division titles, pennants, and WS championships. 

The man has managed 5097 games. 

His teams have made the playoffs 14 times in 33 seasons. They have 6 pennants and 3 World Series titles. He won the World Series with an 83-win and a 90-win Cardinals team, which suggests he doesn't need the most dominant team in baseball to win it all. He's had a winning record at all three stops - Sox, A's, Cardinals. 

Whatever process Tony LaRussa has used to achieve these milestones, with 33 different collections of players, is okay by me. I defer to his expertise and experience in these matters, because like every other fan and commentator on TLR, I've never managed a major league baseball team or game, and I don't pretend to know more than the guy who is third all-time (about to be second, and the only one to manage during an integrated league) in managing major league games. 

If you are so disgusted with the Sox over this hire that you want to boycott the team or the games, or give up your fandom, that is your right. And you can continue voicing your criticism of this hire if you like till the cows come home.  

For me, it's all about the Ws, especially during crunch time. That's where Rick Renteria failed, and it's why he had to go. I expect Tony LaRussa will get better results. 

This is truly an excellent post. Good job explaining your position:)

[Harry Chappas]

25 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

So far the results are that we are the laughing stock of baseball, a major free agent said he wouldn't sign here, and a top coaching choice wouldn't come here.  Smashing successes so far.

The Sox will be the laughing stock if they fail to meet expectations but for now I think they are fine, not on this board but in general this news cycle has passed on a  larger scale.

Stroman wasn't a free agent so his take was BS

Who was the coach that wouldn't come here?  

[The Hawk]

2 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

The Sox will be the laughing stock if they fail to meet expectations but for now I think they are fine, not on this board but in general this news cycle has passed on a  larger scale.

Stroman wasn't a free agent so his take was BS

Who was the coach that wouldn't come here?  

    Stroman was entitled to his opinion. I give a rat's ass what he thinks. Chappas and VAfan are right. No one can ignore the fact that LaRussa has been a greatly successful major league manager. Now the pressure is really on his ass to do it once again. We will see. He was not my choice. I wanted Alomar but our votes don't count and like someone said earlier none of us has ever managed a major league baseball game in our life and we are just mere observers and fans. We will see. The great thing is that if he fails, a lot of use will have the "WE TOLD YOU SO" statement all ready to go as they fire LaRussa and hire someone else and maybe F that up also:)

[MeanJoeCrede]

55 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

So far the results are that we are the laughing stock of baseball, a major free agent said he wouldn't sign here, and a top coaching choice wouldn't come here.  Smashing successes so far.

Who is the top coaching choice?

[South Side Hit Men]

I’d actuate what went down to the drug deal gone bad in Boggie Nights. 

Rick and Kenny were Dirk Diggler (Kenny) and O’Reiley (Hahn) “what are you doing, let’s go” and Jerry was the guy with the mustache with a “plan”, which didn’t quite work out for anyone.

Mike Ditka won a Super Bowl the last time LaRussa was here, doesn’t mean you want his dumb senile drunk driving ass to come out if a lengthy retirement to return either.

[IWokeUpLikeThis]

This was a great baseball hire. Unfortunately for twitter, only 2% of the population is active on it. They’re a zit on an elephant’s ass with a loud echo chamber inside. 

[Sleepy Harold]

8 hours ago, MeanJoeCrede said:

Who is the top coaching choice?

Chris Fetter, the pitching coach for DET now.

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, IWokeUpLikeThis said:

This was a great baseball hire. Unfortunately for twitter, only 2% of the population is active on it. They’re a zit on an elephant’s ass with a loud echo chamber inside. 

How does that explain the reported disgust and opposition throughout the White Sox organization, including Hahn and Kenny walking away from any responsibility for the hire, or no non MLB owned media availability or promotions for Tony, Hahn or Williams since the hire announcement?

It’s such a shit show, they had to postpone the innocuous announcement regarding the move to  ESPN.

This isn’t Twitter, yet it was near unanimous in the poll here in terms of Hinch or Other vs. LaRussa, and these results were BEFORE the most recent DUI arrest news leaked.

Reinsdorf himself stated last offseason Tony has nothing left to prove, the job takes too much out of you and the issues with a 75 year old dealing with 22 year olds. Jerry talks to media rarely, if ever, yet he took the time to state clearly why LaRussa should not return to managing, yet here he is.

 

 

[The Grinder]

Not trying to get off point and I didnt want to start another Tony thread but my fav TLR moment was in maybe 1985 when it was Kmart stadium seat cushion day where prob 10K seat cushions were being given out, There was a questionable call on the field and Tony came out to argue. Then out of the blue someone threw ONE measly seat cushion out on the diamond. Then a few seconds later the entire infield was flooded with the seat cushions, thousands of them. Tony looked up in the stands as if to say WTF??

 

Anyone attend that game as well?

[pcq]

One Tony is too old. Two Tony is in seclusion. Bad situation.

[South Side Hit Men]

4 hours ago, The Grinder said:

Not trying to get off point and I didnt want to start another Tony thread but my fav TLR moment was in maybe 1985 when it was Kmart stadium seat cushion day where prob 10K seat cushions were being given out, There was a questionable call on the field and Tony came out to argue. Then out of the blue someone threw ONE measly seat cushion out on the diamond. Then a few seconds later the entire infield was flooded with the seat cushions, thousands of them. Tony looked up in the stands as if to say WTF??

 

Anyone attend that game as well?

Yep, was there though don't remember the exact game. Still have two of them, our weekend season tickets were down the left field line, too far to hit LaRussa with.

[ScootsMcGoots]

19 hours ago, Sleepy Harold said:

Chris Fetter, the pitching coach for DET now.

I heard that Fetter went to Detroit because he lives in Ann Arbor. 

[ShoeLessRob]

Welcome to Soxtalk Jerry!

[Sleepy Harold]

13 hours ago, ScooterMcGee said:

I heard that Fetter went to Detroit because he lives in Ann Arbor. 

Well he was the coach at Michigan and followed Hinch to DET after he was hired. Not really having to move I'm sure was a plus.

[SonofaRoache]

On 11/17/2020 at 12:38 PM, The Hawk said:

    Stroman was entitled to his opinion. I give a rat's ass what he thinks. Chappas and VAfan are right. No one can ignore the fact that LaRussa has been a greatly successful major league manager. Now the pressure is really on his ass to do it once again. We will see. He was not my choice. I wanted Alomar but our votes don't count and like someone said earlier none of us has ever managed a major league baseball game in our life and we are just mere observers and fans. We will see. The great thing is that if he fails, a lot of use will have the "WE TOLD YOU SO" statement all ready to go as they fire LaRussa and hire someone else and maybe F that up also:)

No politics! 

[Dick Allen]

For a guy who was hired to win, let's look at the record. He one once with the roster he had in Oakland. He won twice with STL. One was a season where his team won 83 games. The other, his team was a wildcard, now made a lot less likely to win a playoff. I saw Tony manage the White Sox for several years, and nothing ever screamed this team is lucky to have him. 

With all the stuff that happened, and the fact that the White Sox, for one of the few times ever, basically had their choice of any one available,  this could go down as one of the most shortsighted hires of all time. Yes, he will run a game better than Ricky Renteria provided he hasn't gone all Rudy Giuliani, they are the same age I believe. But everything else could be a train wreck. 

[gusguyman]

The greatest coach in the history of College Football says trust the process, not the results, but I'm sure coaching baseball is totally different so the complete opposite is true here, yes.

[The Grinder]

19 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Yep, was there though don't remember the exact game. Still have two of them, our weekend season tickets were down the left field line, too far to hit LaRussa with.

They must have had 2 different cushions, mine had the Sox batter holding a bat logo. So 75 yr anniversary would have been 1985, wasnt Comiskey built in 1910?? But thanks for the pics!! BTW I still have mine too:)

Edited November 19, 2020 by The Grinder

[pcq]

The process I see is manager-in-hiding. This will get worse before long. He cannot just avoid the media.