trading our players

[SoxSteve]

Maybe this shouldn't be a new topic but what is with all this talk about trading our young players away? I just don't understand the thinking behind it. it hijacks every thread with ridiculous trade ideas. Why does Vaughn's name come up in every trade and why are some posters in such a hurry to get rid of the guy? I heard it all last year and now this year as well.  It's not a stretch to think he might end up being our best hitter down the road. Madrigal looks like a 300 plus hitter and all that with a bad shoulder. And I wouldn't trade Kopech until I see him for a full year without or without him being a possible head case. And I even saw Garret Crochet name come up along with Robert. INSANE.  I will be sooooo pissed if we trade any of these guys. I don't care who we get in return like Snell or Marquez. And don't even get me started on Lance Lynn. Please!!! I don't post a lot but just felt I had to say it because I get nauseous every time I see these names come up. just saying

Edited November 25, 2020 by SoxSteve

[whitesoxbrad]

13 minutes ago, SoxSteve said:

Maybe this shouldn't be a new topic but what is with all this talk about trading our young players away? I just don't understand the thinking behind it. it hijacks every thread with ridiculous trade ideas. Why does Vaughn's name come up in every trade and why are some posters in such a hurry to get rid of the guy? I heard it all last year and now this year as well.  It's not a stretch to think he might end up being our best hitter down the road. Madrigal looks like a 300 plus hitter and all that with a bad shoulder. And I wouldn't trade Kopech until I see him for a full year without or without him being a possible head case. And I even saw Garret Crochet name come up along with Robert. INSANE.  I will be sooooo pissed if we trade any of these guys. I don't care who we get in return like Snell or Marquez. And don't even get me started on Lance Lynn. Please!!! I don't post a lot but just felt I had to say it because I get nauseous every time I see these names come up. just saying

I agree completely

[Leonard Zelig]

There are holes on the team and the FA options are limited, so trading is the other option.

[Balta1701]

6 minutes ago, Leonard Zelig said:

There are holes on the team and the FA options are limited, so trading is the other option.

It's not the FA options that our limited. There are sufficient options that we could fill all of the team's needs. It is the team's willingness to spend that money that we expect to be limited. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

All we need is Bauer. Let the roulette wheel keep spinning on 1 yr. stop gaps in RF ,a reliever to replace Colome or Colome himself, and run with that. Let Cease and Dunning be 4 and 5 . See who's non tendered and see what else we can come up with.

If we can't sign Bauer divide what we were willing to pay Bauer among 2 other starting pitchers.

Edited November 25, 2020 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[ron883]

Our owner is a cheap SOB, that's why. We won't be able to break the bank with free agents unfortunately.

[Leonard Zelig]

49 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

It's not the FA options that our limited. There are sufficient options that we could fill all of the team's needs. It is the team's willingness to spend that money that we expect to be limited. 

How many quality starters would you say are available via FA?

[Jack Parkman]

53 minutes ago, Leonard Zelig said:

How many quality starters would you say are available via FA?

One, Bauer. 

All the other guys have major question marks. 

Tanaka and Paxton have injury issues and the other pitchers are back end guys at best. 

You could say the same about Springer/RF. 

Only platoon options after that. 

If you're being real the potential trade acquisitions have issues as well, with control, injury or acquisition cost. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[SonofaRoache]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

It's not the FA options that our limited. There are sufficient options that we could fill all of the team's needs. It is the team's willingness to spend that money that we expect to be limited. 

Outside of Bauer there are no realistic TOR options for us in FA. 

[Harold's Leg Lift]

A team with World Series aspirations should always be looking for upgrades.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

The key to a rebuild is self evaluation and understanding what prospects the industry or a team views higher than your internal evaluation. Selling those prospects and getting big league talent back. 

You have to trust your guys and trust that you don't trade away the wrong ones. No one should know your guys better than you.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

14 hours ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Our owner is a cheap SOB, that's why. We won't be able to break the bank with free agents unfortunately.

They don't need to break the bank. Signing Bauer would probably only add between $5-$10M to next years payroll if he goes from $30-35M per year . Of course it's the willingness to go 5 or 6 years with him that's usually the problem with this organizations view of long term contracts for pitchers.

If the Sox are willing to spend very close to that amount of money on Springer then why not Bauer instead ? Unless you think he's getting $35M/year + or a 7 or 8 year contract in the $30M range. It will be interesting to see the total amount difference between the 2 contracts when they eventually sign and if any opt outs are used.

If they really want to win a World Series pony up for Bauer and allow him to pitch every 4th day if that is a deal breaker for teams in the running for him.

[joejoesox]

13 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The key to a rebuild is self evaluation and understanding what prospects the industry or a team views higher than your internal evaluation. Selling those prospects and getting big league talent back. 

You have to trust your guys and trust that you don't trade away the wrong ones. No one should know your guys better than you.

And we arguably have one of the worst GMs in the game at identifying your own home grown talent

[poppysox]

16 hours ago, SonofaRoache said:

Outside of Bauer there are no realistic TOR options for us in FA. 

We already have a TOR starter and two more in training.  Spend the money on Springer and a couple #4 types along with a good RP.  With that lineup we aren't going to have many 1-0 games.

[black jack]

I'm not trading anyone that I don't have to.  I only move players that are blocked at the MLB level and I'm forced to make some difficult 40 man roster decisions. 

 

Koepech, Cease, Dunning, Lopez, Rodon....  

I want them all getting a chance behind our new pitching coach before moving on. 

 

 

As for the everyday players, I've been waiting a VERY long time to have this team depth.  I don't want to lose any of it.

 

Spend some fucking money to add Springer and the roster is complete.  

Edited November 26, 2020 by black jack

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 hours ago, joesaiditstrue said:

And we arguably have one of the worst GMs in the game at identifying your own home grown talent

How so?

[Eminor3rd]

Team needs several pitchers

[Balta1701]

8 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

How so?

I don’t think we are allowed to say the name of that traded player any more.

[SonofaRoache]

1 hour ago, poppysox said:

We already have a TOR starter and two more in training.  Spend the money on Springer and a couple #4 types along with a good RP.  With that lineup we aren't going to have many 1-0 games.

What about the playoffs though? If we want championships we need to be better than Yankees, Dodgers, Braves, Padres, and Rays. Those lineups are mainly loaded and they have real solid pitching or can buy it. We have Gio, a solid DK, and a bunch of questions. I think we should sign Springer, but to get another good pitcher a trade will need to happen. 

[Dominikk85]

Ideally the Sox keep all the advanced good prospects (close to mlb and 50fv+ and sign guys via free agency. The Sox have one of the lowest payrolls in the majors and could afford some more even without breaking the bank.

[poppysox]

8 hours ago, SonofaRoache said:

What about the playoffs though? If we want championships we need to be better than Yankees, Dodgers, Braves, Padres, and Rays. Those lineups are mainly loaded and they have real solid pitching or can buy it. We have Gio, a solid DK, and a bunch of questions. I think we should sign Springer, but to get another good pitcher a trade will need to happen. 

Giving up 2 or 3 top prospects is not the way to have long term success.  Three quality arms are the requirement to win playoff baseball.  We currently have two.  I'm counting on the new pitching coach to unlock Cease, Dunning, and/or Kopech.  The two Quintana types I suggested are to hold down the fort until someone figures it out.  Should a stud be needed...trades can still be accomplished before the trade deadline.  As I have said before...we have paid a high price in losing seasons and trading good players to be where we are today.  No way do I want to pull a Cubs and return to crap in 3 or 4 years.

[Balta1701]

52 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Giving up 2 or 3 top prospects is not the way to have long term success.  Three quality arms are the requirement to win playoff baseball.  We currently have two.  I'm counting on the new pitching coach to unlock Cease, Dunning, and/or Kopech.  The two Quintana types I suggested are to hold down the fort until someone figures it out.  Should a stud be needed...trades can still be accomplished before the trade deadline.  As I have said before...we have paid a high price in losing seasons and trading good players to be where we are today.  No way do I want to pull a Cubs and return to crap in 3 or 4 years.

Long term success may come at the expense of winning any World Series trophies, when you have to beat the Superteam Dodgers as well as other strong teams like the Yankees, Rays, Braves, Padres, and whoever else is in good shape next year.  Winning fir years with no titles happened to Detroit. Probably to Cleveland. To the Rangers when they had a strong team. The Yankees have been strong for years and can’t beat Houston. Minnesota can’t beat the Yankees. Pulling a Cubs is not a bad thing if you get that trophy, there are plenty of examples of teams not getting over the hump. Somehow I feel like we are destined to have more than 1 matchup with the Padres.

I don’t believe it’s time to put everything on the table yet. But next July it could be. 

[poppysox]

10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Long term success may come at the expense of winning any World Series trophies, when you have to beat the Superteam Dodgers as well as other strong teams like the Yankees, Rays, Braves, Padres, and whoever else is in good shape next year.  Winning fir years with no titles happened to Detroit. Probably to Cleveland. To the Rangers when they had a strong team. The Yankees have been strong for years and can’t beat Houston. Minnesota can’t beat the Yankees. Pulling a Cubs is not a bad thing if you get that trophy, there are plenty of examples of teams not getting over the hump. Somehow I feel like we are destined to have more than 1 matchup with the Padres.

I don’t believe it’s time to put everything on the table yet. But next July it could be. 

Being in a position to win every year is the goal.  You can't afford to shoot and miss.  I favor using the FA route because it only costs money.  Trading prime prospects have a really high probability of biting you in the ass.?

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, poppysox said:

Being in a position to win every year is the goal.  You can't afford to shoot and miss.  I favor using the FA route because it only costs money.  Trading prime prospects have a really high probability of biting you in the ass.?

Unfortunately, with the White Sox salary limits, they are going to grab the lower end of the FA market, where the odds of failure are like 2/3. That could well get them to the trade deadline in first place, but you go into October as a juggernaut if you want to face this competition. 

[Dominikk85]

9 hours ago, poppysox said:

Giving up 2 or 3 top prospects is not the way to have long term success.  Three quality arms are the requirement to win playoff baseball.  We currently have two.  I'm counting on the new pitching coach to unlock Cease, Dunning, and/or Kopech.  The two Quintana types I suggested are to hold down the fort until someone figures it out.  Should a stud be needed...trades can still be accomplished before the trade deadline.  As I have said before...we have paid a high price in losing seasons and trading good players to be where we are today.  No way do I want to pull a Cubs and return to crap in 3 or 4 years.

I'm also against trading the top prospects but I think this "the cubs were only good a short time" is overstated.

The cubs since 2015 won

2015: 97 (nlcs)

2016: 103 (WS)

2017: 92 (nlcs)

2018: 95 (WC)

2019:84 (no playoffs)

2020: 34 (92 pace, lost WC)

Eventually they had 6 years with 5 of them over 90 wins (average 93.8) and also some bad luck in the post season.they could have won in 15 and 17 too, they definitely had a strong window, 6 years is a good period.

If the sox in the next 5-6 years win a WS, and make another 2 ALCS and two WC I would take it in a heartbeat.

The dissapointment with the cubs is more because they had most success at the beginning of their window but overall it was a pretty good window even though they made some bad decisions, especially on the free agent market and could have been even better.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by Dominikk85