If no new RF by Nontender deadline, should Sox tender Mazara?

[skooch]

54 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Yet here you are...

Yup. I enjoy reading about baseball. Unlike you who seems interested in creating an echo chamber where anyone with an opposing view is encouraged to leave or log out. Despite the tolerance you preach, you seen quite intolerant.

[ScootsMcGoots]

56 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

It makes sense.  They both underpreformed majorly last year, and their arb raises are WAY above their market value.  Giolito is a no brainer of a tender.  Reynaldo is still at a very small number, so no reason to not bring him back.

So the deadline is the 2nd right? Which means we should hear about Gio and Lopez signing contracts in the next few days?

[Tnetennba]

48 minutes ago, ScooterMcGee said:

So the deadline is the 2nd right? Which means we should hear about Gio and Lopez signing contracts in the next few days?

I would think we start hearing things Monday or Tuesday once the holiday weekend is over.  Hopefully.    

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, skooch said:

Yup. I enjoy reading about baseball. Unlike you who seems interested in creating an echo chamber where anyone with an opposing view is encouraged to leave or log out. Despite the tolerance you preach, you seen quite intolerant.

Nope. If you have a problem with it here, those are the ones I encourage to leave. 

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, ScooterMcGee said:

So the deadline is the 2nd right? Which means we should hear about Gio and Lopez signing contracts in the next few days?

Well, they will at least be tendered offers by the deadline.  They might not agree, or could choose to go to arbitration. 

[Vulture]

On 11/28/2020 at 8:18 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

Where is the “God No” option?  If he wants to come back at like $2.5M to open the season at DH and then move into backup role once Vaughn is called up that’s fine by me.  Bud under no circumstance do you tender him a contract.

How does he come back at 2.5 million without tendering a contract??

[Tnetennba]

13 minutes ago, Vulture said:

How does he come back at 2.5 million without tendering a contract??

Not tendering him a contract makes him a free agent.  He could sign for less to return, but it's probably more likely he finds work elsewhere. 

[Vulture]

14 minutes ago, SouthWallace said:

Not tendering him a contract makes him a free agent.  He could sign for less to return, but it's probably more likely he finds work elsewhere. 

You'd still have to tender him a contract as a free agent. i don't see the advantage of tendering him as a free agent over tendering him prior to the nontender deadline. If you're going to offer him 2.5 as a free agent, why not offer him 2.5 million now?

[TomPickle]

8 minutes ago, Vulture said:

You'd still have to tender him a contract as a free agent. i don't see the advantage of tendering him as a free agent over tendering him prior to the nontender deadline. If you're going to offer him 2.5 as a free agent, why not offer him 2.5 million now?

The least you can offer a player in arbitration is 80% of their previous years salary so the least the White Sox can offer is roughly $4.5 million.

[Vulture]

7 minutes ago, TomPickle said:

The least you can offer a player in arbitration is 80% of their previous years salary so the least the White Sox can offer is roughly $4.5 million.

Offering a player arbitration and tendering a contract offer are two different things. Sox can offer a contract  prior to arbitration without restriction.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Vulture

[runtheballdown]

No, he had the worst swing I’ve ever seen. It looked like there was something wrong with him. He stinks.

[Tnetennba]

7 hours ago, Vulture said:

You'd still have to tender him a contract as a free agent. i don't see the advantage of tendering him as a free agent over tendering him prior to the nontender deadline. If you're going to offer him 2.5 as a free agent, why not offer him 2.5 million now?

 Tendering him while still under team control within the arbitration process is subject to rules that free agents aren't?  If teams could offer under performing players massively lower figures w/o granting them free agency first or going to arbitration, wouldn't that be common place?

If the Sox tender Mazara a contract w/o granting FA first they are obligated to offer no less than 80% of his previous salary.  A lower number would be an attempt to circumvent the arbitration process.

Edited November 30, 2020 by SouthWallace

[oldsox]

9 minutes ago, SouthWallace said:

 Tendering him while still under team control within the arbitration process is subject to rules that free agents aren't?  If teams could offer under performing players massively lower figures w/o granting them free agency first or going to arbitration, wouldn't that be common place?  Offering $2.5M down from the $5ish he made is trying to circumvent the arbitration process and is probably in violation of the CBA.

 

 

Yes, it circumvents the arbitration process.

No, it is not a violation of CBA.  Arbitration favors the players like it is supposed to do; this gives the owners a choice to get out of it.  Not a violation.

[Tnetennba]

3 minutes ago, oldsox said:

Yes, it circumvents the arbitration process.

No, it is not a violation of CBA.  Arbitration favors the players like it is supposed to do; this gives the owners a choice to get out of it.  Not a violation.

That makes sense. 

[ChiSox1917]

On 11/28/2020 at 8:15 PM, YourWhatHurts said:

Then question: what do the Sox do if they nontender Nomar, then Springer and Joc both sign elsewhere?  Who else is out there?

Leury

[ChiSox59]

No.

Under no scenario should the Sox tender Mazara a contract.  Non tender him and resign him for half the cost if that's what you need to do.  But there is no reason to pay him his projected arb salary.  

That said, I hope we just move in another direction unless 28+ man rosters are back for 2021, in which case I'd be fine bringing back Mazara for a couple million as a backup plan.  But it still doesn't make much sense as he adds very little value to a bench.  

[southsider2k5]

11 hours ago, Vulture said:

Offering a player arbitration and tendering a contract offer are two different things. Sox can offer a contract  prior to arbitration without restriction.

Pretty sure it doesn't work like that during this time period.  This system is in place.  A deal has to fit the perimeters of the arbitration system, otherwise you don't tender them a contract.

[southsider2k5]

2 hours ago, ChiSox1917 said:

Leury

Doesn't Leury have an option?

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

People who would extend him are the biggest ding bats of the White Sox kingdom.. (Insert Billy Madison game quote)

[chitownsportsfan]

On 11/28/2020 at 6:25 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

So you want to tender him?

I admit I just wanted to type something in that moment involving a bear and shit.  I'm completely checked out from the offseason.  I'll see you guys in March.  Been a long year got too much real life shit to deal with.

[Vulture]

15 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Pretty sure it doesn't work like that during this time period.  This system is in place.  A deal has to fit the perimeters of the arbitration system, otherwise you don't tender them a contract.

If that were the case then nobody would sign contracts prior to going to arbitration. Only a small minority of arb eligible players actually go to arbitration. Sox already bought arb years of numerous players on the roster, thus circumventing arb process.

[Tnetennba]

4 hours ago, Vulture said:

If that were the case then nobody would sign contracts prior to going to arbitration. Only a small minority of arb eligible players actually go to arbitration. Sox already bought arb years of numerous players on the roster, thus circumventing arb process.

Few players go to arbitration because most are settled beforehand at a number close to their arbitration figure.  “Buying out arb years” is simply offering a guaranteed contract for those arb years of rookie deals for near those same figures.  Guaranteed years at guaranteed dollars.  No more need to tender yearly contracts and no more need for arbitration.  

Edited December 1, 2020 by SouthWallace

[southsider2k5]

4 hours ago, Vulture said:

If that were the case then nobody would sign contracts prior to going to arbitration. Only a small minority of arb eligible players actually go to arbitration. Sox already bought arb years of numerous players on the roster, thus circumventing arb process.

Already having a deal in place years before isn't the same thing as what is being discussed here.  You see that right?  Also if you look at the deals which are signed during this time period and prior to arbitration, none of them are significantly under what the process would give them.  They are "market value" deals.  If you have any evidence here otherwise, please provide it.

[Superstar Lamar]

23 hours ago, ChiSox1917 said:

Leury

and Adam Engel

[ScootsMcGoots]

13 minutes ago, Superstar Lamar said:

and Adam Engel

I honestly thing Engel will work his way into being a starting outfielder somehow next season. Whether it be due to someone else getting injured, or the Sox failing to sign someone else. I think he's going to finally break out to being the player everyone thought he could be when he was called up. He showed flashes of it in this shortened season. He had more bat control and was hitting balls the other way. Those are signs of a hitter figuring it out (hello Tim Anderson).