Dodgers sign Bauer (3/102, opt-outs, 40-45-17)

[Jack Parkman]

5 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

His 4.01 ERA masked a 5.87 FIP.  Don’t get me wrong, I’m still extremely high on Cease, but he’s got a lot of work in front of him as he didn’t make much progress last year.  Fastball command was terrible, his fastball lacks movement despite a high spin rate, and his secondaries are still way too inconsistent.  Additionally, his curveball (his bread & butter breaking ball coming up in the minors) has regressed over the past two years and his usage of it dropped by half in 2020.  The good news is he has elite velocity for a starter and hopefully by partnering with Katz he can come up with some mechanical / grip changes he can turn that pitch into a weapon again.  And I’m optimistic with Cooper gone that we’ll see an increase in curveball utilization even if that’s a bit of a meme at this point.

I'm not as high on him as you because while his stuff is really good, he has no idea where any of it is going. If you can't spot the fastball you have no chance, and that's the pitch that Cease has the hardest time spotting. Don't get me wrong, it's not impossible for him to figure it out. I just find it a 50/50 proposition at best. He shows a lot of the same flaws as Lopez with not being able to spot the fastball and missing bats at a lower rate than you'd think a guy with his stuff should. Cease throws 99 but hitters are all over it. 

[michelangelosmonkey]

16 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I'm not as high on him as you because while his stuff is really good, he has no idea where any of it is going. If you can't spot the fastball you have no chance, and that's the pitch that Cease has the hardest time spotting. Don't get me wrong, it's not impossible for him to figure it out. I just find it a 50/50 proposition at best. He shows a lot of the same flaws as Lopez with not being able to spot the fastball and missing bats at a lower rate than you'd think a guy with his stuff should. Cease throws 99 but hitters are all over it. 

I keep hearing this narrative that "if you can't spot your fastball you have no chance..." Dylan Cease at 24 is averaging 5 walks and 9 strikeouts per 9 and has pitched 131 innings.   Randy Johnson at 25 averaged 5 walks and 7 strikeouts in 190 innings.  At 24 Nolan Ryan averaged 6 walks and 8 strikeouts with 400 innings pitched.  Curt Schilling at 24 averaged 5 walks and 8 strikeouts.  At 23 Giolito had 5 walks and 7 strikeouts after a couple of hundred innnings pitched.  Jack he's JUST getting started.  He has GREAT stuff.  Kopech and Crochett and Kelly are going to frustrate you too...kids with big arms sometimes take time to control it.  

[southsider2k5]

10 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

I keep hearing this narrative that "if you can't spot your fastball you have no chance..." Dylan Cease at 24 is averaging 5 walks and 9 strikeouts per 9 and has pitched 131 innings.   Randy Johnson at 25 averaged 5 walks and 7 strikeouts in 190 innings.  At 24 Nolan Ryan averaged 6 walks and 8 strikeouts with 400 innings pitched.  Curt Schilling at 24 averaged 5 walks and 8 strikeouts.  At 23 Giolito had 5 walks and 7 strikeouts after a couple of hundred innnings pitched.  Jack he's JUST getting started.  He has GREAT stuff.  Kopech and Crochett and Kelly are going to frustrate you too...kids with big arms sometimes take time to control it.  

And the kid has less than a full seasons worth of starts, most coming in the most messed season in 5 generations.  It's one thing to pronounce someone like ReyLo as a finished product,  but it is way too early for Cease.

[michelangelosmonkey]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

And the kid has less than a full seasons worth of starts, most coming in the most messed season in 5 generations.  It's one thing to pronounce someone like ReyLo as a finished product,  but it is way too early for Cease.

Exactly...Reylo's about to turn 27 and has 500 MLB innings.  I'm ok saying that one didn't work out.   They don't all work out.  But we are so quick to give up on people...we don't ever talk about Stiever on here anymore...he of the 10 K's and 2 BB's per 9 in the minors, our number 5 prospect...after his MLB debut people were saying they wouldn't trade him straight up for Lance Lynn...and then he got shelled against Cincinnati and now we want to throw him in as the third piece in a trade for Darvish.  Soxtalk needs therapy.   

[poppysox]

33 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

I keep hearing this narrative that "if you can't spot your fastball you have no chance..." Dylan Cease at 24 is averaging 5 walks and 9 strikeouts per 9 and has pitched 131 innings.   Randy Johnson at 25 averaged 5 walks and 7 strikeouts in 190 innings.  At 24 Nolan Ryan averaged 6 walks and 8 strikeouts with 400 innings pitched.  Curt Schilling at 24 averaged 5 walks and 8 strikeouts.  At 23 Giolito had 5 walks and 7 strikeouts after a couple of hundred innnings pitched.  Jack he's JUST getting started.  He has GREAT stuff.  Kopech and Crochett and Kelly are going to frustrate you too...kids with big arms sometimes take time to control it.  

Good post...anxious to see what Katz can do with this group.  He certainly seems to have helped Gio.

[poppysox]

14 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Exactly...Reylo's about to turn 27 and has 500 MLB innings.  I'm ok saying that one didn't work out.   They don't all work out.  But we are so quick to give up on people...we don't ever talk about Stiever on here anymore...he of the 10 K's and 2 BB's per 9 in the minors, our number 5 prospect...after his MLB debut people were saying they wouldn't trade him straight up for Lance Lynn...and then he got shelled against Cincinnati and now we want to throw him in as the third piece in a trade for Darvish.  Soxtalk needs therapy.   

I'm still hopeful that Reylo can find himself in the right pen situation.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

51 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

I keep hearing this narrative that "if you can't spot your fastball you have no chance..." Dylan Cease at 24 is averaging 5 walks and 9 strikeouts per 9 and has pitched 131 innings.   Randy Johnson at 25 averaged 5 walks and 7 strikeouts in 190 innings.  At 24 Nolan Ryan averaged 6 walks and 8 strikeouts with 400 innings pitched.  Curt Schilling at 24 averaged 5 walks and 8 strikeouts.  At 23 Giolito had 5 walks and 7 strikeouts after a couple of hundred innnings pitched.  Jack he's JUST getting started.  He has GREAT stuff.  Kopech and Crochett and Kelly are going to frustrate you too...kids with big arms sometimes take time to control it.  

Using hall of famers as examples.....

[michelangelosmonkey]

2 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Using hall of famers as examples.....

Examples of hall of fame pitchers that at a young age "cant spot their fastball so they have no chance"...seems relavent.  

[Vulture]

16 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Using hall of famers as examples.....

Are we still supposed to be waiting for the rest of the sentence?

[Chicago White Sox]

Sherman is suggesting the Mets may only add one substantial free agent this offseason.  If so, it’s going to be fascinating to see which guy they prioritize.  If they go with a positional player (Realmuto or Springer), I just don’t know where the obvious landing spot would be for Bauer.  Seems like the Blue Jays are determined to land one of the Big Four as well, so maybe he’s Canada bound.  It will be an absolute travesty if the Sox don’t even make an effort to sign him in this market, especially if the only major spender (the Mets) go in a different direction.

[Jack Parkman]

27 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Sherman is suggesting the Mets may only add one substantial free agent this offseason.  If so, it’s going to be fascinating to see which guy they prioritize.  If they go with a positional player (Realmuto or Springer), I just don’t know where the obvious landing spot would be for Bauer.  Seems like the Blue Jays are determined to land one of the Big Four as well, so maybe he’s Canada bound.  It will be an absolute travesty if the Sox don’t even make an effort to sign him in this market, especially if the only major spender (the Mets) go in a different direction.

Yankees, Padres, Angels, Jays.....I don't trust the Sox to play with those guys. 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[Chicago White Sox]

21 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Yankees, Padres, Angels, Jays.....I don't trust the Sox to play with those guys. 

Angels sure, but don’t buy the Yankees as serious pursuers.  No reason we shouldn’t be able to play with the fucking Padres.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Angels sure, but don’t buy the Yankees as serious pursuers.  No reason we shouldn’t be able to play with the fucking Padres.

This sounds familiar *cough Machado cough*

[Blackout Friday]

1 hour ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Examples of hall of fame pitchers that at a young age "cant spot their fastball so they have no chance"...seems relavent.  

To be fair, he didn’t say no chance, he said 50/50 at best. 
 

I also don’t think comparing any young, unestablished player to a hall of famer is fair...Especially freaks like Nolan Ryan and Randy Johnson who are the ultimate exception to just about every rule.

 

I’m not arguing one way or another, just my thoughts on those two things. 

[Chicago White Sox]

39 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

This sounds familiar *cough Machado cough*

I’m saying hypothetically...obviously Reinsdorf is the great equalizer and the reason I’m voicing my frustrations in the first place.  It’s one thing to lose out on free agents to teams like the Yankees & Dodgers, whose revenue exceeds our own by hundreds of millions of dollars.  It’s completely different when you’re talking about mid market franchises like the fucking Padres.  

We’re in the third biggest market, with a talented, likeable, cost-controlled core in place, whose geographic rival who has had a grip on the city for two plus decades is starting to go backwards. Now is the time to pounce, add those missing last few pieces via free agency, build yourself into a legit World Series contender, and potentially make this a White Sox city for years to come.  Unfortunately for us, Jerry is a risk-adverse coward who refuses to invest in his product until he’s certain the revenue will be there to prevent any short-term losses.

[Jack Parkman]

43 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Angels sure, but don’t buy the Yankees as serious pursuers.  No reason we shouldn’t be able to play with the fucking Padres.

The Yankees don't really have anyone beyond Cole. Severino is returning from TJS so he'll be on an innings limit. Tanaka is free. 

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m saying hypothetically...obviously Reinsdorf is the great equalizer and the reason I’m voicing my frustrations in the first place.  It’s one thing to lose out on free agents to teams like the Yankees & Dodgers, whose revenue exceeds our own by hundreds of millions of dollars.  It’s completely different when you’re talking about mid market franchises like the fucking Padres.  

We’re in the third biggest market, with a talented, likeable, cost-controlled core in place, whose geographic rival who has had a grip on the city for two plus decades is starting to go backwards. Now is the time to pounce, add those missing last few pieces via free agency, build yourself into a legit World Series contender, and potentially make this a White Sox city for years to come.  Unfortunately for us, Jerry is a risk-adverse coward who refuses to invest in his product until he’s certain the revenue will be there to prevent any short-term losses.

You nailed it. 

[VAfan]

56 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m saying hypothetically...obviously Reinsdorf is the great equalizer and the reason I’m voicing my frustrations in the first place.  It’s one thing to lose out on free agents to teams like the Yankees & Dodgers, whose revenue exceeds our own by hundreds of millions of dollars.  It’s completely different when you’re talking about mid market franchises like the fucking Padres.  

We’re in the third biggest market, with a talented, likeable, cost-controlled core in place, whose geographic rival who has had a grip on the city for two plus decades is starting to go backwards. Now is the time to pounce, add those missing last few pieces via free agency, build yourself into a legit World Series contender, and potentially make this a White Sox city for years to come.  Unfortunately for us, Jerry is a risk-adverse coward who refuses to invest in his product until he’s certain the revenue will be there to prevent any short-term losses.

The unfortunate fact is that Chicago will never be a White Sox town, even if they win the World Series again. Cubs fans have never required the Cubs to win to give their allegiance. 

But it's not really a zero sum game. The Sox can gain in attendance without it coming from Cubs fans. 

So I support the idea that the Sox should go for it in 2021 and while they have this cost-controlled core in place. 

[poppysox]

3 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Using hall of famers as examples.....

Who better to use as examples?

[Chicago White Sox]

11 minutes ago, VAfan said:

The unfortunate fact is that Chicago will never be a White Sox town, even if they win the World Series again. Cubs fans have never required the Cubs to win to give their allegiance. 

But it's not really a zero sum game. The Sox can gain in attendance without it coming from Cubs fans. 

So I support the idea that the Sox should go for it in 2021 and while they have this cost-controlled core in place. 

Of course it can be.  The Cubs broke the curse and part of the allure is over for them.  Given the shit-show that is Chicago sports right now and how likable our players are, the Sox have a chance to be the city’s team.

[michelangelosmonkey]

2 hours ago, Blackout Friday said:

To be fair, he didn’t say no chance, he said 50/50 at best. 
 

I also don’t think comparing any young, unestablished player to a hall of famer is fair...Especially freaks like Nolan Ryan and Randy Johnson who are the ultimate exception to just about every rule.

 

I’m not arguing one way or another, just my thoughts on those two things. 

To be fair this is his exact quote"If you can't spot the fastball you have no chance..." And to be fair i wasnt comparing Cease to Nolan Ryan except in rebutting the argument that young pitchers who cant spot their fastballs are doomed.

[Jack Parkman]

51 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Of course it can be.  The Cubs broke the curse and part of the allure is over for them.  Given the shit-show that is Chicago sports right now and how likable our players are, the Sox have a chance to be the city’s team.

Not really. It's more of a tribal thing and both fanbases absolutely loathe the other. 

The only way for the Sox to get more fans is to tap into the casual baseball fan that follows the winner and convert them into a die hard. 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[Blackout Friday]

1 hour ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

To be fair this is his exact quote"If you can't spot the fastball you have no chance..." And to be fair i wasnt comparing Cease to Nolan Ryan except in rebutting the argument that young pitchers who cant spot their fastballs are doomed.

more words came after the “...” that explicitly say he didn’t think cease had no chance. 
 

His point was that cease can’t locate his fastball (true) and that he’s skeptical of his ability to rectify this (fair). You seem to think this means he thinks cease is doomed, and based your response off of that. You were rebutting an argument that wasn’t made. 
 

as for your argument that young pitchers who can’t locate their fastball are doomed, i agree they aren’t. Using the top, just estimating, .0001% of likely outcomes is a stretch, but gio is more plausible. The likelihood of reaching that level isn’t good, but it’s possible. That’s the gamble. Some are willing to take it some aren’t. 
 

anyways I’m going to leave it at that on my end bc you probably agree these back and forths get annoying for everyone. 

[Orlando]

 

Trevor Bauer seems to be flirting with the Angels a bit 

[BigHurt3515]

How in the world can the Angels afford anything? I feel like they give out a big contract every year