Dodgers sign Bauer (3/102, opt-outs, 40-45-17)

[GREEDY]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

There has always been this “paying one’s dues” in baseball for young players.

Basically, you’re a first rounder with a huge signing bonus or you’re going to spend many years proving doubters wrong.

Now, you are seeing more players in Rounds 2-10 getting money like Kelley, but it has always been a front-loaded game.

We can compare with the NFL and NBA, but first, but top picks in those sports are expected to make instant impacts...whereas the majority of high school picks take 4-5 years to even reach the majors, three if they’re extremely talented.

It’s hard to imagine that changing because the interests of MiLB ownership groups and MLB talent development has never been aligned in a way that there’s ever been a foremost concern about the product minor league teams have to market/sell.  

The MiLB argument is a completely different one.  

I am talking about Major League Baseball players that earn less per year than a bad lawyer (whose career is 10X longer).  

Daniel Palka earned a grand total 642k while playing for the White Sox for 2 years.  That is not a big enough piece of the pie.  

[chitownsportsfan]

19 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

I actually support a star like Bauer getting insane money.  People tune-in to see him pitch.  People buy his jerseys.  Superstars make the league money.

It is the next tier of player that is way out of wack IMHO.  

Adam Eaton is not significantly more valuable to the game/product than a pre-arb outfielder.  I expect him to earn more than an unproven player, but not 16X more.  

 

I'm with you.  They need to fix the pre-arb system.  I'm not a big shot actuary or attorney I'm not going to throw out proposals but it doesn't take a genius to see the current system is broken.

[South Side Hit Men]

Owners are supposed to be the stewards of the game, but have consistently without fail do everything in their power to destroy it.

Sadly, the players must not only provide the lone reason cares about the sport, but also mop and sweep the owners mess in the luxury suite.

[TaylorStSox]

20 hours ago, Harry Chappas said:

I agree am I crazy to think that this is not a good deal for Bauer?

He is betting on himself but the guaranteed money is not what I thought he would have gotten.  

Right. There's so much done with analytics in baseball, but it seems like little is done with contracts. This contract is great for owners as they're maximizing expected value without being weighed down by a long term commitment. If I was other players, I'd be pissed at Bauer as these type of contracts destroy their nest egg - the ability to be highly paid during their decline. Nearly all long term contracts are are weighed down by paying players for past their prime production. 

[oldsox]

3 hours ago, GREEDY said:

The MiLB argument is a completely different one.  

I am talking about Major League Baseball players that earn less per year than a bad lawyer (whose career is 10X longer).  

Daniel Palka earned a grand total 642k while playing for the White Sox for 2 years.  That is not a big enough piece of the pie.  

Redundancy

[pcq]

On 2/5/2021 at 3:06 PM, South Side Hit Men said:

Epic fail!

Jeff Pasan QFT

 

I am willing to indulge the thought that Cleveland BC is not in good faith but there might be a few franchises due to relocate. A year or so after making a World Series they went on the cheap. 

[35thstreetswarm]

4 hours ago, GREEDY said:

I actually support a star like Bauer getting insane money.  People tune-in to see him pitch.  People buy his jerseys.  Superstars make the league money.

It is the next tier of player that is way out of wack IMHO.  

Adam Eaton is not significantly more valuable to the game/product than a pre-arb outfielder.  I expect him to earn more than an unproven player, but not 16X more.  

 

I generally agree with the sentiment that stars should get paid, but I don’t actually think many people tune in to see Bauer.  I’ve never seen a Bauer jersey.  He’s more loud than popular.

[iWiN4PreP]

The players continue to get f**ked. There needs to be a lot of changes. Unfortunately, the owners are some of the most greedy pieces of shit possible.

Love the conversation in this thread. 

A salary floor is an absolute must. We need to push it up, someone said 85 mil, I might even go 100mill, but I don't have any stats in front of me. 

 

[poppysox]

Baseball is on steroids when it comes to money.  The owners and players both make obscene money IMO and the fans foot the bill.  Most of us are fans because we went to games in our youth and learned to keep a scorecard.  I saved my allowance and packed a lunch so I could get to an extra game or two.   Favorite players were on the team for most of their careers.  We were hooked.  Most normal families today would struggle to find the extra $ in the budget to take the family to the park.  Seniors on fixed incomes refuse to spend at current prices even if they can afford it (as a matter of principle.)  I don't blame Bauer or any player getting as much as he can but really...$40 mil is nuts and next year that will serve as the new benchmark.

I certainly understand the short career argument and would support a higher ML starting salary.  The top-end guys need to slow it down big time IMO.  I would totally support a Bill Veeck type ownership that didn't pay the big bucks to select free agents but made the effort to put the fan first.  Affordable tickets, parking, food, etc. should come before overpaying a few select players twice what they are worth. 

I think JR has put together an excellent team and I support his decision to draw a line in the sand with these few select free agents that get fans so goosey.  In general, I would rather improve my team with three 10 million type guys than one 30 million dollar guy.  Actually...It would be OK if JR took the 30 million and lowered the prices on tickers, food & parking.  I for one am glad JR is a financially responsible owner in that we will continue to have a team to cheer for.  Some of these teams will be belly up before you know it.

[champagne030]

24 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Actually...It would be OK if JR took the 30 million and lowered the prices on tickers, food & parking.  I for one am glad JR is a financially responsible owner in that we will continue to have a team to cheer for.  Some of these teams will be belly up before you know it.

LOL, nobody is going under.  And you're advocating that JR should have made a massive payroll reduction this year so that the cost of a game is cheaper?  Maybe you should think about going to Kane County if you want a cheaper experience.

Edited February 7, 2021 by champagne030

[caulfield12]

43 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Baseball is on steroids when it comes to money.  The owners and players both make obscene money IMO and the fans foot the bill.  Most of us are fans because we went to games in our youth and learned to keep a scorecard.  I saved my allowance and packed a lunch so I could get to an extra game or two.   Favorite players were on the team for most of their careers.  We were hooked.  Most normal families today would struggle to find the extra $ in the budget to take the family to the park.  Seniors on fixed incomes refuse to spend at current prices even if they can afford it (as a matter of principle.)  I don't blame Bauer or any player getting as much as he can but really...$40 mil is nuts and next year that will serve as the new benchmark.

I certainly understand the short career argument and would support a higher ML starting salary.  The top-end guys need to slow it down big time IMO.  I would totally support a Bill Veeck type ownership that didn't pay the big bucks to select free agents but made the effort to put the fan first.  Affordable tickets, parking, food, etc. should come before overpaying a few select players twice what they are worth. 

I think JR has put together an excellent team and I support his decision to draw a line in the sand with these few select free agents that get fans so goosey.  In general, I would rather improve my team with three 10 million type guys than one 30 million dollar guy.  Actually...It would be OK if JR took the 30 million and lowered the prices on tickers, food & parking.  I for one am glad JR is a financially responsible owner in that we will continue to have a team to cheer for.  Some of these teams will be belly up before you know it.

Except the White Sox have had about a 25-30% success rate in free agency with these Tier B/C free agents like EE, Alonso, LaRoche, Cabrera, etc.  

The only way this philosophy works is if you’re at closer to 50-60% in free agency, or have great coaching as well as talent evaluation on a consistent basis.   Teams like the Rays, Braves, Cardinals, Brewers, Indians and A’s just a few that come to mind.

What doesn’t work well is being stuck in the middle.  Which is where the Mariners have been since their near great Ichiro-led teams of the early 2000’s.  

[poppysox]

49 minutes ago, champagne030 said:

LOL, nobody is going under.  And you're advocating that JR should have made a massive payroll reduction this year so that the cost of a game is cheaper?  Maybe you should think about going to Kane County if you want a cheaper experience.

Been there many times.  Been to Hooks games in Corpus many times.  Been to games in half a dozen major league parks.  What does that have to do with anything?  What I said was this runaway salary crap isn't good for the game.  If you disagree...explain your opinions...don't knock others for theirs.  By the way...try reading what I said.  I didn't advocate massive payroll reductions for the WS this year.  You can knock off that condescending LOL crap.  You don't strike me as that bright.

[poppysox]

30 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Except the White Sox have had about a 25-30% success rate in free agency with these Tier B/C free agents like EE, Alonso, LaRoche, Cabrera, etc.  

The only way this philosophy works is if you’re at closer to 50-60% in free agency, or have great coaching as well as talent evaluation on a consistent basis.   Teams like the Rays, Braves, Cardinals, Brewers, Indians and A’s just a few that come to mind.

What doesn’t work well is being stuck in the middle.  Which is where the Mariners have been since their near great Ichiro-led teams of the early 2000’s.  

Don't forget Dunn.  Before free agency, the FO had to make the good decisions you are alluding to.  They still do.  We are in a great position to win the division and many more postseason championships.  We still have ammunition as we see how the team gels.  The FO has done a fine job of putting a very good team on the field.  However, I am venting because this salary stuff is making 3/4 of the teams non-competitive and the game unaffordable for many people.

[caulfield12]

15 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Don't forget Dunn.  Before free agency, the FO had to make the good decisions you are alluding to.  They still do.  We are in a great position to win the division and many more postseason championships.  We still have ammunition as we see how the team gels.  The FO has done a fine job of putting a very good team on the field.  However, I am venting because this salary stuff is making 3/4 of the teams non-competitive and the game unaffordable for many people.

I didn’t include him simply because he was one of the highest ranked FA’s that year.

MLB has certainly changed...it’s certainly not like the minors, where autographs were plentiful, everyone in general is more relaxed and approachable, parking is free or under $5.00, beer is affordable (Two for Tuesday, Thirsty Thursdays) and you can all go out in some type of garden or patio and talk to all the relievers down in the bullpen leaning across a mere chain link fence.  You can watch a backup catcher from some obscure Latin American country show off his arm throwing a ball out of the stadium and over the Mississippi River bridge, or hang out with players, coaches and the one team beat writer at the local Hooter’s.   Those times are fast disappearing, attitudes are becoming more corporatized, terms like risk mitigation/liability override fun and entertainment.

[champagne030]

43 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Been there many times.  Been to Hooks games in Corpus many times.  Been to games in half a dozen major league parks.  What does that have to do with anything?  What I said was this runaway salary crap isn't good for the game.  If you disagree...explain your opinions...don't knock others for theirs.  By the way...try reading what I said.  I didn't advocate massive payroll reductions for the WS this year.  You can knock off that condescending LOL crap.  You don't strike me as that bright.

I did read what you said and that was that teams would be going “belly up” before we know it.  Sorry, but I LOL at that comment.  You also stated that rather than JR spending $30M on payroll that you would prefer he use those funds to finance (thus keeping his current profit margins) a cheaper ballpark experience.  :shrug:

Edited February 7, 2021 by champagne030

[pcq]

I object to the treatment of fringe players and minor Leaguers along with the Lotto glorification of top tier free agents. Money only distracts from my enjoyment of rounders. 

[Sambuca]

Paying Bauer 45mil for a season is stupid.  

The Padres really forced this signing though after basically acquiring a 1-2-3 this offseason after holding their own with the Dodgers last season. 

[ron883]

6 hours ago, poppysox said:

Baseball is on steroids when it comes to money.  The owners and players both make obscene money IMO and the fans foot the bill.  Most of us are fans because we went to games in our youth and learned to keep a scorecard.  I saved my allowance and packed a lunch so I could get to an extra game or two.   Favorite players were on the team for most of their careers.  We were hooked.  Most normal families today would struggle to find the extra $ in the budget to take the family to the park.  Seniors on fixed incomes refuse to spend at current prices even if they can afford it (as a matter of principle.)  I don't blame Bauer or any player getting as much as he can but really...$40 mil is nuts and next year that will serve as the new benchmark.

I certainly understand the short career argument and would support a higher ML starting salary.  The top-end guys need to slow it down big time IMO.  I would totally support a Bill Veeck type ownership that didn't pay the big bucks to select free agents but made the effort to put the fan first.  Affordable tickets, parking, food, etc. should come before overpaying a few select players twice what they are worth. 

I think JR has put together an excellent team and I support his decision to draw a line in the sand with these few select free agents that get fans so goosey.  In general, I would rather improve my team with three 10 million type guys than one 30 million dollar guy.  Actually...It would be OK if JR took the 30 million and lowered the prices on tickers, food & parking.  I for one am glad JR is a financially responsible owner in that we will continue to have a team to cheer for.  Some of these teams will be belly up before you know it.

[FriendlyNorthsider]

On 12/4/2020 at 3:37 PM, Jack Parkman said:

It depends on what he's looking for? 

If he's looking for a long-term deal, I think 5/140-150, and that's only because of the Pandemic. In a normal offseason, he'd be looking at 6/180 or 7/210. 

If he'd be willing to do a 3 year deal, I think he'd get around 105M. 

If he's looking for a 1 year deal, I think he wants to beat Cole's AAV and He'd get a 38M 1 year deal. 

This aged well

[ron883]

9 minutes ago, FriendlyNorthsider said:

This aged well

Jack said 3y/105m, and Bauer technically got 3y/102m, so it was close. 

Edited February 7, 2021 by ron883

[caulfield12]

8 hours ago, pcq said:

I object to the treatment of fringe players and minor Leaguers along with the Lotto glorification of top tier free agents. Money only distracts from my enjoyment of rounders. 

Billy Beane might disagree with you.  The only way the A’s could compete was undervalued, fringe high OBP players filling out the rosters.

[poppysox]

4 hours ago, ron883 said:

For all of JR's lack of spending the money like the majority of posters would have him do...we have a potential all-star at every position.  We have a top 5 rotation IMO and what looks like the best pen in my lifetime.   This JR is cheap stuff doesn't hold water IMO.  JR chose to trade for a TOR starter...plug a RF problem with a solid player and get the best closer in the game.  We simply don't have the income of the Yankee's and Dodgers.  They can overspend their mistakes but we can't.  Sure it's fun to get the new shiny toy but not at the overall health of the ballclub.  By the way...it won't surprise me if Bauer takes all that money and pitches like a #3 in the rotation.

[RagahRagah]

9 hours ago, poppysox said:

For all of JR's lack of spending the money like the majority of posters would have him do...we have a potential all-star at every position.  We have a top 5 rotation IMO and what looks like the best pen in my lifetime.   This JR is cheap stuff doesn't hold water IMO.  JR chose to trade for a TOR starter...plug a RF problem with a solid player and get the best closer in the game.  We simply don't have the income of the Yankee's and Dodgers.  They can overspend their mistakes but we can't.  Sure it's fun to get the new shiny toy but not at the overall health of the ballclub.  By the way...it won't surprise me if Bauer takes all that money and pitches like a #3 in the rotation.

This is blind optimism at its finest.

You're not necessarily wrong about your assessment, but you're ignoring that we have no depth and some big time questions marks. We're really not going into any better a situation with our starting pitching and since closer was lights out last year we really aren't making a needle move on that position this year. 

Edited February 7, 2021 by RagahRagah

[tray]

Beyond money, the fact is that Bauer has had issues with teammates and organizations that he has played for in the past. He is a lone wolf, not a team player.

I never liked the guy and am glad he is not on the White Sox. Meanwhile,  I think we will all enjoy seeing pitchers  compete for the 4th and 5th starter positions. 

Much more interesting than handing it to someone, IMO.

 

 

[RagahRagah]

6 minutes ago, tray said:

Beyond money, the fact is that Bauer has had issues with teammates and organizations that he has played for in the past. He is a lone wolf, not a team player.

I never liked the guy and am glad he is not on the White Sox. Meanwhile,  I think we will all enjoy seeing pitchers  compete for the 4th and 5th starter positions. 

Much more interesting than handing it to someone, IMO.

 

 

Interesting? Uh, I guess. A good thing compared to just having an ace fill one of those spots? Lol no.