Kyle Schwarber signs with Nationals: 1 year 10mil

[RagahRagah]

53 minutes ago, KrankinSox said:

I understand the luxury that a more passable OF provides in terms of lineup flexibility, but we are talking about the DH spot. You want the best hitter. Leury and Engel provide defensive OF depth.

If the Sox sign or trade for an everyday RF, let's just say Joc, then who do you propose we use at DH (taking Vaughn out of the equation)?

Which specific FAs do you prefer to DH instead of Schwarber? I'm not saying he should be option #1,  but he should be considered.

Lol Schwarber isn't exactly a good hitter either and arguably sucks in the OF. If we're going low budget for an OF then Joc is the man. I think I'd prefer JBJ also.

[KrankinSox]

4 minutes ago, Vulture said:

Yeah I'd rather have Vaughn and Dahl for DH considering there is a good chance the Sox will need to cover injuries in the OF. I get you're saying cover dh, I'd prefer to cover both. If Vaughn succeeds, Schwarber is practically useless. Imagine Robert or RF goes down, and Vaughn is hitting. I don't want Eloy and Schwarber covering the corners. Also much more likely Dahl would be agreeable to that kind of role considering he has never had 400 abs in his career and presumably could be had at a fraction of the cost, allowing the extra money to be invested in pitching

It's a fair argument. I admittedly don't know much about Dahl's defense but fangraphs shows him to be pretty comparable to Schwarber in terms of sucking in the outfield.

[Vulture]

I find that hard to believe considering he has started in center field, including twenty games this year. I don't think there is a team in baseball that would even consider playing schwarber an inning in CF. If we had JBJ as well, Sox could slide a gold glover into CF if needed and have Dahl and Engel to cover right.

Strange thing his metrics are actually better in CF than in LF. To me that doesn't compute. I don't know how much faith I have in these defensive stats. They've got Griffey down as a career 0.2 defensive war for example.

Edited December 3, 2020 by Vulture

[fathom]

Schwarber has a cannon in LF which helped his numbers a lot. He really wasn’t bad defensively the last few years. The eye test says he’s better defensively than Eloy by a wide margin (due to his arm)

[Vulture]

Yeah but the Sox aren't going to play Schwarber in favor of Eloy regardless.

[South Side Hit Men]

2 hours ago, wrathofhahn said:

Strongly disagree DH is one of the easiest and cheapest way to get offense onto your ballclub.

The issue isn't bringing in a DH it's who we've brought into DH. To give an example say you have a SS who has a .730 OPS with ok defense you maybe have to pay them 5-7M. To bring in a SS like for example machado who will hit .820-.850 with ok defense you are looking at 30M. Our DH according to fangraphs hit .570 OPS last year.

Lets say it was only .730 well to bump that up to what Schwarber 3 year split was .825 and he got nontendered at a  5M proj arb figure. It's lunacy to not have a good hitter at DH. You are sacrificing so much value that has to be made up elsewhere for much more of a premium. So no I don't want them to bring a scrub at DH. Next to pitching it's probably our number one need.

My point is the White Sox already have too many 1B/DH types, Eloy is valuable for his bat, and delaying the inevitable is not a good solution. He tried, just doesn't have the capacity. Even a quantum leap would bring him to Kyle Schwarber level without the solid arm. Carlton Fisk was not a left fielder either, still valuable in his 30s, just not in LF. The Sox needed a RF last year and this year, and could use another corner to platoon in LF. If Reinsdorf won't fund that in the most salary depressed off-season ever, than be happy with his bag of carrots.  

Also agree it's much more valuable to have a player who can actually play positions, which is why the White Sox need to put more emphasis on drafting players to cover the other seven positions (excluding 1B/DH). Can either of their catching prospects catch at the major league level? 

Edited December 4, 2020 by South Side Hit Men

[Dominikk85]

59 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

Lol Schwarber isn't exactly a good hitter either and arguably sucks in the OF. If we're going low budget for an OF then Joc is the man. I think I'd prefer JBJ also.

Schwarber is a pretty solid hitter as he has averaged 30+ homers and lots of walks in his career but his BA is a bit of a disappointment.

In college he was a bit like vaughn with more walks than Ks and great BA, OBP and slg and in the low minors his K rate and BA was ok too but once he made it to the majors (or really already in AAA ball) his K rate really went up and also the shift are up his babip due to his pull tendency so he basically is a 240 hitters with lots of walks and homers now (kinda adam dunn).

 

That is not terrible (peak adam dunn was a very good player) but when he was scouted in college and the low minors many thought he could be a "triple threat" guy (avg, obp and slg).

[ChiSox1917]

Robert can cover 75% of the outfield anyway, so im on board with schwarber in right. His arm has drastically improved. Its better than leurys who played a lot of right the last couple years.  

offense is more important than defense anyway

[RagahRagah]

1 hour ago, ChiSox1917 said:

Robert can cover 75% of the outfield anyway, so im on board with schwarber in right. His arm has drastically improved. Its better than leurys who played a lot of right the last couple years.  

offense is more important than defense anyway

Just because he can doesn't mean he should have to. All you do is increase injury risk. This is a bad argument.

[Vulture]

3 hours ago, ChiSox1917 said:

Robert can cover 75% of the outfield anyway, so im on board with schwarber in right. His arm has drastically improved. Its better than leurys who played a lot of right the last couple years.  

offense is more important than defense anyway

If you're going that route, might as well go with Pederson. Its not like Schwarber is that great of a hitter to justify having a sub par outfield defense that could cost who knows how many runs. We've got a gold glove CFer. Would be kind of a waste to put the worst possible defense around him to come up with a net zero result. Bad defense and bad bullpens lose playoff series.

If Sox haven't constructed a roster that keeps Leury out of the outfield, aside from rare instances, I'd consider that a failure. Leury can't be the measure for anything aside from utility infielder.

[poppysox]

On 12/3/2020 at 9:24 AM, BrianAnderson said:

Reasons to consider: 

Gives Vaughn an unpressurized timeline to play in AAA, allows depth in LF, gives a decent bat and an okay price. 

Reasons to pass:

He can't play RF, he's really not that good (aka I think you can find poor defense, .230BA and 25-35 HR in a lot of places), he doesn't have a home here, he doesn't make the team better. 

I would rather spend the money on something we actually need like a right fielder and pitching.

[Harry Chappas]

If the feeling is Vaughan needs a year at AAA this is a good move.  If he does not, it is not a move they make as they still need a starter and RF.

[wrathofhahn]

22 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

My point is the White Sox already have too many 1B/DH types, Eloy is valuable for his bat, and delaying the inevitable is not a good solution. He tried, just doesn't have the capacity. Even a quantum leap would bring him to Kyle Schwarber level without the solid arm. Carlton Fisk was not a left fielder either, still valuable in his 30s, just not in LF. The Sox needed a RF last year and this year, and could use another corner to platoon in LF. If Reinsdorf won't fund that in the most salary depressed off-season ever, than be happy with his bag of carrots.  

Also agree it's much more valuable to have a player who can actually play positions, which is why the White Sox need to put more emphasis on drafting players to cover the other seven positions (excluding 1B/DH). Can either of their catching prospects catch at the major league level? 

Eloy is being paid to play the field. I honestly don't know if he can be a fulltime LF that is on the coaching staff and FO if not then he probably shouldn't have been given that extension and if he can't then the conversation becomes finding a LF versus finding a DH. Moving Eloy doesn't solve our issue just create a new one and a good defensive LF who can hit will be many times more expensive then what Schwarber will be to DH.

So we need to sort of figure that out and not waste money that could be spent elsewhere. I hope you are wrong Eloy is still 24 he can improve his defense we will see the other issue beyond how much we paid him is how he and his agent feels about it. Sure he is signed for 6 years but only 4 of that is guarnteed

[Dominikk85]

On 12/3/2020 at 11:14 PM, wrathofhahn said:

Strongly disagree DH is one of the easiest and cheapest way to get offense onto your ballclub.

The issue isn't bringing in a DH it's who we've brought into DH. To give an example say you have a SS who has a .730 OPS with ok defense you maybe have to pay them 5-7M. To bring in a SS like for example machado who will hit .820-.850 with ok defense you are looking at 30M. Our DH according to fangraphs hit .570 OPS last year.

Lets say it was only .730 well to bump that up to what Schwarber 3 year split was .825 and he got nontendered at a  5M proj arb figure. It's lunacy to not have a good hitter at DH. You are sacrificing so much value that has to be made up elsewhere for much more of a premium. So no I don't want them to bring a scrub at DH. Next to pitching it's probably our number one need.

The Sox already have a DH in Andrew Vaughn. They Just need to plug in a scrub for 2 weeks and then call up Vaughn.

So why would the sox sign a DH?

[Bob Sacamano]

Just now, Dominikk85 said:

The Sox already have a DH in Andrew Vaughn. They Just need to plug in a scrub for 2 weeks and then call up Vaughn.

So why would the sox sign a DH?

Yeah it will probably be a rotating DH with Garcia and Collins being the extra bat most of the time while giving others a day to DH here and there.

[wrathofhahn]

5 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said:

The Sox already have a DH in Andrew Vaughn. They Just need to plug in a scrub for 2 weeks and then call up Vaughn.

So why would the sox sign a DH?

Do they? He played high A ball last year why are we so sure they plan on plugging him day 1 or in two weeks? I am not.

Schwarber is likely gonna get a one year deal I am fine with giving Vaughn another year at AA and AAA you still have the option of calling him up if he is playing well and/or Schwarber struggles.

What is clear is our internal options prior to Vaughn suck and we are about to lose our best DH last year which comically was our backup catcher. Fangraphs had our OPS collectively last year as .570 at the DH position

Edited December 4, 2020 by wrathofhahn

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, wrathofhahn said:

Do they? He played high A ball last year why are we so sure they plan on plugging him day 1 or in two weeks? I am not.

Schwarber is likely gonna get a one year deal I am fine with giving Vaughn another year at AA and AAA you still have the option of calling him up if he is playing well and/or Schwarber struggles.

They second half of this thought is that even if the Sox envision using Schwarber as a bridge for Vaughn, does Kyle look at this situation as the ideal way for him to rebuild his value?  I kind of doubt it.

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

They second half of this thought is that even if the Sox envision using Schwarber as a bridge for Vaughn, does Kyle look at this situation as the ideal way for him to rebuild his value?  I kind of doubt it.

One year deal, place to be healthy and hit lots of HR, fit well in the lineup, play a position of need, with a defensive platoon player already there, figure out the next deal post pandemic and lockout? Makes some sense to me.

[wrathofhahn]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

They second half of this thought is that even if the Sox envision using Schwarber as a bridge for Vaughn, does Kyle look at this situation as the ideal way for him to rebuild his value?  I kind of doubt it.

I mean he was just non-tendered. He will likely be limited to AL clubs and maybe a handful of offers of those clubs who need a DH. We can offer him consistent playing time to start the year in a hitters friendly park and if he plays well we keep Vaughn in the minors. He may get a better offer then that I dunno but if it isn't acceptable move on to the next guy there will be other options

Edited December 5, 2020 by wrathofhahn

[southsider2k5]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

One year deal, place to be healthy and hit lots of HR, fit well in the lineup, play a position of need, with a defensive platoon player already there, figure out the next deal post pandemic and lockout? Makes some sense to me.

Not if he is losing most of his time to Andrew Vaughn for 90% of the season.

[fathom]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Not if he is losing most of his time to Andrew Vaughn for 90% of the season.

Orioles makes way more sense, and the Twins could be lurking if they don’t get Cruz back

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Orioles makes way more sense, and the Twins could be lurking if they don’t get Cruz back

The Twins are actually a great spot for him.

[wrathofhahn]

14 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Not if he is losing most of his time to Andrew Vaughn for 90% of the season.

If he is playing well we keep Vaughn in the minor leagues to develop. It's a win win. I'd rather be in a position of keeping Vaughn longer then necessary in the minor leagues preserving extra service time then in a position where Vaughn struggles at the MLB level and not have another option at DH which is where we were last year with EE. 

Vaughn has yet to face any pitching above A ball. I know everyone is excited and I am to an extent too but lets see him face AA and AAA pitching first before anointing him ready to play at the MLB level next year.

Edited December 5, 2020 by wrathofhahn

[South Side Hit Men]

5 hours ago, wrathofhahn said:

Eloy is being paid to play the field. I honestly don't know if he can be a fulltime LF that is on the coaching staff and FO if not then he probably shouldn't have been given that extension and if he can't then the conversation becomes finding a LF versus finding a DH. Moving Eloy doesn't solve our issue just create a new one and a good defensive LF who can hit will be many times more expensive then what Schwarber will be to DH.

So we need to sort of figure that out and not waste money that could be spent elsewhere. I hope you are wrong Eloy is still 24 he can improve his defense we will see the other issue beyond how much we paid him is how he and his agent feels about it. Sure he is signed for 6 years but only 4 of that is guarnteed

Eloy's below market deal remains a bargain if he is DH only if his bat lives up to potential. His defense actually detracts from his value.

He's only playing LF because the White Sox have Vaughn and Abreu (and had Parrot), and they do not have an everyday RF or LF. Most here concede Eloy will likely play DH or 1B in the next 2-3 years, depending on any extension to Abreu.

I agree with you in terms of tempered Vaughn expectations, if the White Sox sign a DH type for 1 year, we have to assume based on what they have seen in 2020 they prefer Vaughn spend a significant portion, if not the entire season, in the minors for development before a promotion. No need to rush him if he is not ready, he is still very young to be expected to produce consistently at the MLB level.

Eloy's Contract:

19:$1M, 20:$1.5M, 21:$3.5M, 22:$6.5M, 23:$9.5M, 24:$13M, 25:$16.5M club option ($3M buyout), 26:$18.5M club option ($3M buyout)

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by South Side Hit Men

[Chicago White Sox]

I will never understand the infatuation with Kyle “Babe” Schwarber.  One of the most overrated players in Chicago sports history.