Passan: Springer to White Sox not happening

[fathom]

I also think the allure of playing for the Mets right now is real. Needless to say, you won’t hear players wanting to come to the Sox due to Jerry.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

 

Quote

 

  24 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I think the biggest impact acquisition will be made via trade.  

This might be true but it's a terrible strategy. Trading prospects right now in this environment just doesn't make any sense. 

 

I disagree.  They can trade the prospects they don't see being impact players before they lose their value.  Stiever is an excellent example of this.  

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

It's all true. Springer wants to lead off and play CF and he wants to be paid like it. If the White Sox offered him 5/125 and told him he's playing RF, I'm sure he'd take it. The Sox offered someone 5/125 last offseason. They just don't think a similar offer for Springer is the right thing to do regardless of how we feel about that. 

"The right thing to do" is not a statement that can be followed. What is not the right thing to do? Tear Springer away from his love of center field? 

Because I don't buy for a second they think it's a poor allocation of money because of their total budget, they've lost all benefit of the doubt there. And if you are trying to convince me that Garret Richards + Joc is better than like Mike Leake + Springer, I am not sure I trust the white sox objectively horrible FA scouting to believe that to be true.

[fathom]

Just now, Harold's Leg Lift said:

 

I disagree.  They can trade the prospects they don't see being impact players before they lose their value.  Stiever is an excellent example of this.  

Yep and with a team with so many positions locked down for the foreseeable future, I don’t mind it.  I know some will freak out about this, but I think Kopech should be traded.

[poppysox]

24 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

It appears that some people on this board have already given up on the offseason and the team. There hasn’t been any significant movement yet. Lol

I am having the same reaction.  The Winter meeting just started and it is obvious that the offseason is a total lost cause.  Nonsensical!

[YourWhatHurts]

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

Well, as the article makes clear, the white sox are not going to sign bauer or Springer because their total contract value. Full stop.

I actually do like Joc, but the takeaway for me and others isn't "haha we thought springer was an option now we learned he isn't" it's that the reason he isn't is because the white sox will not sign a top free agent. And no, Grandal and a 4 for 72 are not much more than a normal signing for most teams.

Can the white sox still have a good free agency? I hope so, but they have to cobble it together from a tier of players they have been absolutely awful at scouting as seen by last years Gio Gonzalez and Edwin Encarnacion (and cishek).

I think the worst thing they can do is sign 2nd and 3rd tier spot-patch pieces **and** make trades giving up stud prospects.

E.g.: trade Cease in a deal for Musgrove, Stiever/Dunning in a deal for Lynn, sign a stop-gap RF, sign a RP.  Then they deplete the farm and spend their money while similarly failing to acquire any marquee player, and failing to provide any real long-term solution to any hole.

I'm thinking that's probably what they are going to do.  Because Sox.

[fathom]

1 minute ago, bmags said:

"The right thing to do" is not a statement that can be followed. What is not the right thing to do? Tear Springer away from his love of center field? 

Because I don't buy for a second they think it's a poor allocation of money because of their total budget, they've lost all benefit of the doubt there. And if you are trying to convince me that Garret Richards + Joc is better than like Mike Leake + Springer, I am not sure I trust the white sox objectively horrible FA scouting to believe that to be true.

What about Lynn, Joc, Colome and La Stella instead of Springer and Leake?

[Y2Jimmy0]

1 minute ago, bmags said:

"The right thing to do" is not a statement that can be followed. What is not the right thing to do? Tear Springer away from his love of center field? 

Because I don't buy for a second they think it's a poor allocation of money because of their total budget, they've lost all benefit of the doubt there. And if you are trying to convince me that Garret Richards + Joc is better than like Mike Leake + Springer, I am not sure I trust the white sox objectively horrible FA scouting to believe that to be true.

They aren't going to allocate what it would take to sign Springer to the long-term budget. Crucify that point, sure. They deserve it. I think they should pay Springer 5/125 or whatever and stick him in RF. It doesn't sound like the White Sox are going to do that though. 

[SonofaRoache]

5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Easy to make a promise when you know you're never going to have to deliver on it.

edit; At this point, I wouldn't be shocked to hear the Sox were told they'd have to offer 130 to get Wheeler so they countered to 125 lol.

Too much truth in this post. It felt like we were hanging on for dear life waiting on a team to outbid us for Manny. That should have never dragged into damn near March if we were serious. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just now, fathom said:

Yep and with a team with so many positions locked down for the foreseeable future, I don’t mind it.  I know some will freak out about this, but I think Kopech should be traded.

No positions are guaranteed or "locked down."

Madrigal is no guarantee, Abreu is older, Luis has never proved himself consistently, Eloy still hasn't shown he can stay healthy and play the field, Moncada misses 1 month every year.

I'm as excited about the future as anyone, but this narrative that there's no chance any of those guys aren't stars completely ignores the countless other young teams who thought they could trade a Gleybar Torres because Addison Russell had SS locked down for a decade to come. Baseball doesn't work that way. An accumulation of talent is required for sustained success.

[YourWhatHurts]

3 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

 

I disagree.  They can trade the prospects they don't see being impact players before they lose their value.  Stiever is an excellent example of this.  

So they loved him enough to call him up straight to the bigs out of A+ when they didn't have to, and now they want to dump him before even giving him a full season at AA?  Yeah I call bullshit on this one.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

24 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I'll take the field.  

Snell?

[Bob Sacamano]

28 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

It appears that some people on this board have already given up on the offseason and the team. There hasn’t been any significant movement yet. Lol

Not yet. But I'm on my first cup of coffee so I expect some movement in the next  30 minutes.

[Y2Jimmy0]

4 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

 

I disagree.  They can trade the prospects they don't see being impact players before they lose their value.  Stiever is an excellent example of this.  

Well sure. I agree there. You're not getting a significant piece in return for Stiever as a headliner right now. 

[bmags]

Just now, fathom said:

What about Lynn, Joc, Colome and La Stella instead of Springer and Leake?

That will be 40 mill plus, I promise you I can make a better team with 40 mill than what you listed. I can't wait for colome to get signed for $14 million and have his shoulder injuries start in spring training. 

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Yep and with a team with so many positions locked down for the foreseeable future, I don’t mind it.  I know some will freak out about this, but I think Kopech should be traded.

Unless you get a real front line starter for him, no.  He has the best chance of being an ace at the front of our rotation out of all of the kids we have in the system.  6 cheap years of that is HUGE to keeping this train on the tracks.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

What about Lynn, Joc, Colome and La Stella instead of Springer and Leake?

You should probably include the pieces your trading for Lynn in this scenario, and regardless... no

Colome? La Stella? So we can watch them turn into Jeff Keppinger and Herrera? No thanks. This team doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt shopping in the aisles they'll be shopping in. THey've shown us over and over again they can't pluck talent from that level successfully; as recently as this past season.

[Y2Jimmy0]

4 minutes ago, fathom said:

Yep and with a team with so many positions locked down for the foreseeable future, I don’t mind it.  I know some will freak out about this, but I think Kopech should be traded.

You can't trade Michael Kopechs when the owner doesn't play at the top of the free agent market 

[fathom]

1 minute ago, bmags said:

That will be 40 mill plus, I promise you I can make a better team with 40 mill than what you listed. I can't wait for colome to get signed for $14 million and have his shoulder injuries start in spring training. 

Believe me, I don’t want him back.  I’m still not sure how he ever gets a righty hitter out

[Harold's Leg Lift]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

Yep and with a team with so many positions locked down for the foreseeable future, I don’t mind it.  I know some will freak out about this, but I think Kopech should be traded.

Couldn't agree more.  I wouldn't give him away but if someone offers fair value I'm cutting bait.  I don't want to be the one holding the bag when his next "thing" pops up and the trend shows something will pop up.  If he defeats his demons and turns into an ace more power to him but I'm not getting burned again.  

[bmags]

1 minute ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

They aren't going to allocate what it would take to sign Springer to the long-term budget. Crucify that point, sure. They deserve it. I think they should pay Springer 5/125 or whatever and stick him in RF. It doesn't sound like the White Sox are going to do that though. 

Thank you. I just want to be clear what we are arguing because it is getting obscured over whether this is an isolated case, (springer has preferences) or the capstone on what we've had to deal with since last year - the sox will not sign a premier deal (and springer honestly is getting rumored to make less than justin upton in 2016 so this is a pretty good deal.

I can live without Springer if it's just "sox would rather build a high end pitching staff and spend on it. But this is "springer high contract scared them away"...again. And there is something so annoying about them thinking 16 million for a 37 year old DH is not scary or wasteful but 25 mill for springer in 2025 is terrifying.

[TheTruth05]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You should probably include the pieces your trading for Lynn in this scenario, and regardless... no

Colome? La Stella? So we can watch them turn into Jeff Keppinger and Herrera? No thanks. This team doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt shopping in the aisles they'll be shopping in. THey've shown us over and over again they can't pluck talent from that level successfully; as recently as this past season.

This basically kills any argument for value shopping under JR and co. You can say what you want about "we all know JR won't spend money" but yea we've seen this story the past decade to know this shit will likely end up the same as before.

[EloyJenkins]

8 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I can't wait to watch Springer patrol right field for a team that isn't the Sox next year.

If that happens, then yes we should be upset about this franchise. But if his agent is telling teams he wants to be a leadoff and CF first, we as realistic fans should never expect JR to drop extra bags of money to sway anyone. I personally think 25 mil per season for him is too much on a 5 year deal and most other teams must as well...since he hasn't signed for that yet. 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Fine by me. Don’t really want any of the cheating Astros on this team anyway. Sign Joc or Brantley for two years and sign Colas or Cespedes as the future RF.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

If that happens, then yes we should be upset about this franchise. But if his agent is telling teams he wants to be a leadoff and CF first, we as realistic fans should never expect JR to drop extra bags of money to sway anyone. I personally think 25 mil per season for him is too much on a 5 year deal and most other teams must as well...since he hasn't signed for that yet. 

Eloy,

Again... and Manny's agent was telling everyone he wanted to play SS and stay on the East Coast.

Manny is playing 3rd base in San Diego. Can we stop pushing these excuse driven narratives that the White Sox push out to excuse their cheap asses?