Passan: Springer to White Sox not happening

[TheTruth05]

1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Fine by me. Don’t really want any of the cheating Astros on this team anyway. Sign Joc or Brantley for two years and sign Colas or Cespedes as the future RF.

All prospects become good major leaguers, this we know.

[Jack Parkman]

8 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

You can't trade Michael Kopechs when the owner doesn't play at the top of the free agent market 

This. 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Eloy,

Again... and Manny's agent was telling everyone he wanted to play SS and stay on the East Coast.

Manny is playing 3rd base in San Diego. Can we stop pushing these excuse driven narratives that the White Sox push out to excuse their cheap asses?

How many teams have won a World Series of late by simply splurging in free agency? Even the Dodgers and their ridiculous team payroll was built around a great farm system and smart trades (they don’t land Mookie via trade without that deep system and insanely deep pockets).

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

2 minutes ago, TheTruth05 said:

All prospects become good major leaguers, this we know.

Nothing is a guarantee. There’s no guarantee that Springer is still producing at an all star level two years from now. Fill RF with a competent player is all I’m asking for. The rest of the lineup is loaded assuming Vaughn is a capable DH. I’d like them to spend their limited resources on pitching both through free agency and trades.

[SonofaRoache]

19 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

How many teams have won a World Series of late by simply splurging in free agency? Even the Dodgers and their ridiculous team payroll was built around a great farm system and smart trades (they don’t land Mookie via trade without that deep system and insanely deep pockets).

Maybe not always free agency but if I'm not mistaken, the Nationals, Red Sox, Astros, and Cubs have won recent titles acquiring an expensive top end pitcher or two. The Dodgers won their title after signing Mookie Betts to a big deal. The Yankees are a favorite again after bringing in Cole and Stanton. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by SonofaRoache

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

11 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

How many teams have won a World Series of late by simply splurging in free agency? Even the Dodgers and their ridiculous team payroll was built around a great farm system and smart trades (they don’t land Mookie via trade without that deep system and insanely deep pockets).

They just resigned Mookie Betts for 365 million dollars and you're comparing how they operate to the White Sox?

In order for the Dodgers to get Mookie they also took on David Prices contract.

What loaded farm system did the Dodgers trade from? They also got, arguably, the best prospect in the deal - Graterol. Jeter Downs was the only top 100 prospect they gave up.

They traded Verdugo from a crowded outfield of accumulated talent so he was the one accumulated talented piece they moved.

So to review, they basically swapped contracts with Price/Maeda who are rather similar and equal pitchers, but Maeda much more affordable. And they got the second best player in the game, and arguably the highest ranked prospect in the trade depending on what publication you respect, in Graterol.

They gave up Alex Verdugo for Mookie Betts. Oh, and a 2nd round pick from the Twins.

I would have drove Eloy to Boston myself on a bicycle if you promised me we'd get and sign Mookie Betts for 12 years for Eloy.

The Dodgers did all of this with money.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said:

Maybe not always free agency but if not not mistaken, the Nationals, Red Sox, Astros, and Cubs have won recent titles acquiring an expensive top end pitcher or two. The Dodgers won their title after signing Mookie Betts to a big deal. The Yankees are a favorite again after bring in Cole and Stanton. 

How were those players acquired? Lester is the only one of that group signed as a free agent and all the big Cubs’ free agent signings since that offseason were busts (except for Yu this past season when the rest of the team was on the decline already, too late).

[bmags]

After Springer's premiere bat, there are two "bat-specific" additions that match up very well to what sox need. Positionally, unfortunately, they don't. One is Brantley, the other is LaStella.

If they got LaStella here, I'd spell his name right (space?) but also be very happy.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

They just resigned Mookie Betts for 365 million dollars and your comparing how they operate to the White Sox?

In order for the Dodgers to get Mookie they also took on David Prices contract.

What loaded farm system did the Dodgers trade from? They also got, arguably, the best prospect in the deal - Graterol. Jeter Downs was the only top 100 prospect they gave up.

They traded Verdugo from a crowded outfield of accumulated talent so he was the one accumulated talented piece they moved.

So to review, they basically swapped contracts with Price/Maeda who are rather similar and equal pitchers, but Maeda much more affordable. And they got the second best player in the game, and arguably the highest ranked prospect in the trade depending on what publication you respect, in Graterol. They gave up Alex Verdugo for Mookie Betts. Oh, and they got a 2nd round pick from the Twins.

I would have drove Eloy to Boston myself on a bicycle if you promised me we'd get and sign Mookie Betts for 12 years for Eloy.

The Dodgers did all of this with money.

Looking through their active roster, what’s their biggest free agent signing in the last 5 years (not counting guys already on the team that were extended)? AJ Pollock?

[SonofaRoache]

1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

How were those players acquired? Lester is the only one of that group signed as a free agent and all the big Cubs’ free agent signings since that offseason were busts (except for Yu this past season when the rest of the team was on the decline already, too late).

Max Scherzer was a free agent. And the other guys were expensive pitchers brought in via trade. Verlander, Price, soon would be Sale (top prospects given away) etc. The point is, big money pitcher was brought in and these teams won. It is about the money and quality of player, not how they were acquired. These players played huge roles in their teams winning it all, including Lester and Mookie. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

6 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Looking through their active roster, what’s their biggest free agent signing in the last 5 years (not counting guys already on the team that were extended)? AJ Pollock?

If your argument is the White Sox should trade for elite talent the year before they become a free agent and offer them the exact deal they ask for, then I'll agree that is a nice way of doing it as well; that costs even more money than Free Agency. Mookie Betts didn't become a Free Agent because the Dodgers offered him what he asked for and wanted in Free Agency.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[fathom]

If the rumors are true and Jerry didn’t even consider Hinch due to the cheating, he was never going to give Springer the biggest contract in Sox history.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Just now, SonofaRoache said:

Max Scherzer was a free agent. And the other guys were expensive pitchers brought in via trade. Verlander, Price, soon would be Sale (top prospects given away) etc. The point is, big money pitcher was brought in and these teams won. It is about the money and quality of player, not how they were acquired. These players played huge roles in their teams winning it all, including Lester and Mookie. 

So what’s wrong with waiting until this team is ready to contend for a World Series before acquiring that big money pitcher via trade ala Astros/Verlander?
 

The Sox are never going to operate like the Dodgers, 90% of the league can’t get anywhere near that type of payroll. So the model is the Astros. They made their big splash via trade for players that were on the back end of their mega deals (Verlander, Grienke). I’m fine with maintaining that type of payroll flexibility until July or next offseason and then making the big move If the team is a World Series contender (they weren’t in 2020).

[SonofaRoache]

8 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Looking through their active roster, what’s their biggest free agent signing in the last 5 years (not counting guys already on the team that were extended)? AJ Pollock?

They traded for Mookie knowing they needed to extend him as a free agent. They won the World Series right after. 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

If your argument is the White Sox should trade for elite talent the year before they become a free agent and offer them the exact deal they ask for, then I'll agree that is a nice way of doing it as well; that costs even more money than Free Agency. Mookie Betts didn't become a Free Agent because the Dodgers offered him what he asked for and wanted in Free Agency.

I’m saying the Dodgers have done the exact opposite of making the big splashy moves in free agency. If the Sox look legit in 2021 and Darvish looks like he did in 2020 while the cubs are looking to dump salary, that’s the kind of move you make in July 2021 to push you over the top. Might cost you more in July than it does now but that’s the type of move the Astros have made in recent years to much success.

[SonofaRoache]

1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

So what’s wrong with waiting until this team is ready to contend for a World Series before acquiring that big money pitcher via trade ala Astros/Verlander?
 

The Sox are never going to operate like the Dodgers, 90% of the league can’t get anywhere near that type of payroll. So the model is the Astros. They made their big splash via trade for players that were on the back end of their mega deals (Verlander, Grienke). I’m fine with maintaining that type of payroll flexibility until July or next offseason and then making the big move If the team is a World Series contender (they weren’t in 2020).

Well, we were ready last year to make that offer. This year we are definitely ready to make that offer. I don't prefer trading for that pitcher because you have to give up prospects. It is being reported that the Rays want Vaughn or Kopech for Snell. Those are guys we need so I'd rather just pay Bauer. I am definitely giving the Sox the benefit of the doubt this offseason to get a big deal done. 

We don't need to be the Dodgers, and don't have to be because we have controllable talent locked up. We have the money to sign a Bauer type now and we should. That would not make us the Dodgers or Yankees in terms of spending. 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

3 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

They traded for Mookie knowing they needed to extend him as a free agent. They won the World Series right after. 

Yep. Again, a trade...Dodgers have largely avoided free agency in recent years (FA not Friedman’s style).

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said:

Well, we were ready last year to make that offer. This year we are definitely ready to make that offer. I don't prefer trading for that pitcher because you have to give up prospects. It is being reported that the Rays want Vaughn or Kopech for Snell. Those are guys we need so I'd rather just pay Bauer. I am definitely giving the Sox the benefit of the doubt this offseason to get a big deal done. 

We don't need to be the Dodgers, and don't have to be because we have controllable talent locked up. We have the money to sign a Bauer type now and we should. That would not make us the Dodgers or Yankees in terms of spending. 

Guess I’m thinking along the lines of Darvish and Lynn, not Snell.

[SonofaRoache]

1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Yep. Again, a trade...Dodgers have largely avoided free agency in recent years (FA not Friedman’s style).

I'm not sure I understand the difference. Let's say we traded for Bauer last year and signed him to a 4 year and 140 million dollar deal. How would that be any different than signing him today for 4 years and 140 million, outside of giving away prospects? 

[SonofaRoache]

2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Guess I’m thinking along the lines of Darvish and Lynn, not Snell.

That's a fair point. But Darvish costs money and prospects. I'm sure the Cubs would need Kopech back for him. Lynn is a good bet and I'd like that move for cheap, but he is only available for one year and is not a top end game 1 kind of guy. 

[maloney.adam]

Just now, SonofaRoache said:

That's a fair point. But Darvish costs money and prospects. I'm sure the Cubs would need Kopech back for him. Lynn is a good bet and I'd like that move for cheap, but he is only available for one year and is not a top end game 1 kind of guy. 

Lynn can be plugged into the number two spot though. He’s a workhorse and eats up innings. This team needs someone like that, that will take the pressure off the bullpen.

[HOFHurt35]

1 hour ago, YourWhatHurts said:

The Sox are in an extremely unique position after operating with much lower payrolls for several years, and also, having a championship core all locked up for several years in arb and pre-arb stage.  "Buying" a championship via FA is exactly what is expected for any org in baseball in such a position as us.  Let's not give the old fuck any credit here.  This opportunity was "earned" in large part by cutting payroll and intentionally losing for several consecutive seasons.

How did "buying" a championship go for the Cubs?  While I'd love to win another WS, look at how miserable it feels to have a one and done for them.

I'd be careful in signing the next Jason Heyward or trading away the next Eloy or Gleybar.

 

 

[fathom]

2 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

How did "buying" a championship go for the Cubs?  While I'd love to win another WS, look at how miserable it feels to have a one and done for them.

I'd be careful in signing the next Jason Heyward or trading away the next Eloy or Gleybar.

 

 

I’ll gladly take a one and done

[Orlando]

4 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

How did "buying" a championship go for the Cubs?  While I'd love to win another WS, look at how miserable it feels to have a one and done for them.

I'd be careful in signing the next Jason Heyward or trading away the next Eloy or Gleybar.

 

 

It went amazing because they won a World Series....?

[GREEDY]

6 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

Lynn can be plugged into the number two spot though. He’s a workhorse and eats up innings. This team needs someone like that, that will take the pressure off the bullpen.

We need someone with the upside to dominate a playoff game.

The innings eater will be a thing of the past assuming there are no further rule changes aimed at limiting the way relievers are used.  Too much data showing you aren't trying to win if you let pitchers face a lineup a 3rd time.  And the next step from there will be not letting pitchers face hitters they matchup poorly with a second time.