RIP Dick Allen

[3GamesToLove]

Posnanski's piece on Allen (from last year), as usual, is the definitive read:

https://joeposnanski.substack.com/p/whats-in-a-name

[Vulture]

Speaking of Wood, how is his number not retired? His numbers are just insane. Two years in the top 15 in major league history for single season WAR, and the two best in Sox history, at 11.8 and 10.7(the year Allen won MVP with a 8.9 WAR), another at 7.8, a year at closer at 5.6, which is higher than any single season mark by Mariano Rivera. Allen "saved the franchise" with a 8.9 war MVP season which was in the middle of a three year stretch Wood averaged 10 WAR per season. Four twenty win seasons, 163 wins, 57 saves and 3.18 ERA with four dominant years at closer and four at starter. '68 season was inarguably the best season as a closer in Sox history, '71 the best season as a starter in Sox history. '71-74 at 35.5 war, most dominant stretch by any Sox player in history, '68-75 50.6.

Edited December 8, 2020 by Vulture

[Pants Rowland]

After losing loved one, you still have moments in the ensuing years where some news breaks and you have that urge to pick up the phone and call them. Then reality rears its head and snuffs out your excitement. Those moments fade over time but when I saw the news about Dick Allen today, I briefly thought to call my late father who was a fan. RIP Dick Allen.

[zisk]

2 hours ago, Vulture said:

Speaking of Wood, how is his number not retired? His numbers are just insane. Two years in the top 15 in major league history for single season WAR, and the two best in Sox history, at 11.8 and 10.7(the year Allen won MVP with a 8.9 WAR), another at 7.8, a year at closer at 5.6, which is higher than any single season mark by Mariano Rivera. Allen "saved the franchise" with a 8.9 war MVP season which was in the middle of a three year stretch Wood averaged 10 WAR per season. Four twenty win seasons, 163 wins, 57 saves and 3.18 ERA with four dominant years at closer and four at starter. '68 season was inarguably the best season as a closer in Sox history, '71 the best season as a starter in Sox history. '71-74 at 35.5 war, most dominant stretch by any Sox player in history, '68-75 50.6.

He pitched 1100+ innings in three years and his numbers went down a bit in 74-75. His busted knee cap ruined his career. I wonder what would have happened

in 1977 if Ron Leflore had hit that ball 6 inches to the left. The Royals were really good though.

[flavum]

Enjoyed the Garfien podcast with Goose Gossage. Dick Allen was before my time, but you can’t deny he was one of the best players 1964-1974 in mostly a pitching era. Definitely a Hall of Fame quality player. 

[Texsox]

I remember watching him in person at a game.  I was really young but I remember the crowd mood shifting and that anticipation, not wanting to miss anything.  The next time I felt that at a game was Frank and he took it to a completely different level. 

[bmags]

8 hours ago, Pants Rowland said:

After losing loved one, you still have moments in the ensuing years where some news breaks and you have that urge to pick up the phone and call them. Then reality rears its head and snuffs out your excitement. Those moments fade over time but when I saw the news about Dick Allen today, I briefly thought to call my late father who was a fan. RIP Dick Allen.

This hit the feels man. 

[NWINFan]

15 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

One thing I read today was that Bill Veeck tried to bring him back to play with the 1977 Southside Hit Men. But the offer wasn’t enough.

It would have been great to have Allen on that team. Who knows what would have happened?

I was at the game in 1972 when he hit the game winning HR against Sparky Lyle and the Yankees. That was most awe-inspiring home run I had ever seen at that point in my life. It still is.

There is no doubt Allen saved the White Sox when he came to Chicago in 1972. The team had no money, a shrinking fan base, and just didn't have the resources to compete as a major league franchise. Without Allen, the team could have ended up in Seattle.

I believe that Allen has to rank as one of the greatest all-around players in MLB history. But he had other problems and it harmed his career. He should have put up numbers that would have forced a Hall of Fame selection. However, I am convinced he began to lose interest and his stats showed it. Players with 340 homers usually don't make Hall. Players with 500 do, and he should have had more than 500.

I feel two ways about Dick Allen: I remember him for that great things he did and for the great player he was, and also am saddened because he could have done so much more.

[NWINFan]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

I remember watching him in person at a game.  I was really young but I remember the crowd mood shifting and that anticipation, not wanting to miss anything.  The next time I felt that at a game was Frank and he took it to a completely different level. 

I also recall the crowd anticipation when Allen stepped up. I know fans loved Frank, but the reaction to Allen was greater. 

When Allen struck out, he never threw a bat or helmet. He'd tuck his bat, under his arm, and stare out the pitcher as if to say, "I'll get you next time." At first , when he would field a grounder, he'd make the hitter run all the way to first. Then, just as the hitter got there, he would gingerly touch the bag with his toe. It was priceless.

For those who remember old Comiskey: I recall  a homer Allen hit into the upper deck. It was to the far end of the upper deck in left center and it was still going up when it the seats. There was no such thing as a cheap Dick Allen homer.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

17 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

One thing I read today was that Bill Veeck tried to bring him back to play with the 1977 Southside Hit Men. But the offer wasn’t enough.

I remember at the time hearing that Veek wanted him as DH but Dick wanted to be the starting 1B.

[champagne030]

Just watched Jim Kaat throw JR under the bus (MLB Hot Stove) for saying there's no way DA belongs in the HOF.  How I can't stand that the owner of my favorite team is a piece of shit.

[The Grinder]

IIRC  the Sox were kind enough to carry his brother Hank on the roster for a year to qualify him for a pension, was this correct? How old school is that??

[South Side Hit Men]

37 minutes ago, champagne030 said:

Just watched Jim Kaat throw JR under the bus (MLB Hot Stove) for saying there's no way DA belongs in the HOF.  How I can't stand that the owner of my favorite team is a piece of shit.

Piece of shit, JR in a nutshell. Dick Allen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harold Baines. The good people keep dying, and  JR and TLR seem to live forever.

https://www.espn.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/post/_/id/22457/reinsdorf-disappointed-over-hof-vote

“Dick Allen had kind of a checkered career,” Reinsdorf said. “If I had been on the committee, I wouldn’t have voted for him. He only really had six really good years. I don’t think he would rise to the standard of the others, in my opinion. But when he was with the White Sox he certainly had Hall of Fame years.”

[flavum]

2 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Piece of shit, JR in a nutshell. Dick Allen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harold Baines. The good people keep dying, and  JR and TLR seem to live forever.

https://www.espn.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/post/_/id/22457/reinsdorf-disappointed-over-hof-vote

“Dick Allen had kind of a checkered career,” Reinsdorf said. “If I had been on the committee, I wouldn’t have voted for him. He only really had six really good years. I don’t think he would rise to the standard of the others, in my opinion. But when he was with the White Sox he certainly had Hall of Fame years.”

So tired of the Hall putting in elderly or dead people when they had the opportunity to do it when guys are alive and able to enjoy it with their family and friends for many years. These 16-person committees are a fucking joke, as we’ve seen. Overall, the writers usually got players in that deserve it...but the pool of players that belong has expanded over the last couple decades. It’s time for the Hall to overhaul the process and put more guys in sooner. Get a better panel of experts, decide who belongs and who doesn’t, and then close that era forever. Minnie Minoso should have been in decades ago, and they still vote on him every few years. Same with Kaat and John, and others. It’s stupid. Either yes or no, but just end it. 

[Dick Allen]

1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Piece of shit, JR in a nutshell. Dick Allen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harold Baines. The good people keep dying, and  JR and TLR seem to live forever.

https://www.espn.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/post/_/id/22457/reinsdorf-disappointed-over-hof-vote

“Dick Allen had kind of a checkered career,” Reinsdorf said. “If I had been on the committee, I wouldn’t have voted for him. He only really had six really good years. I don’t think he would rise to the standard of the others, in my opinion. But when he was with the White Sox he certainly had Hall of Fame years.”

Thank God he isn't on the committee because he is clueless. He had 8 years of a .900 + OPS that was when it wasn't HR or bust. The guy has the same career OPS+ as Frank Thomas and Willie Mays.

[Texsox]

3 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Piece of shit, JR in a nutshell. Dick Allen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harold Baines. The good people keep dying, and  JR and TLR seem to live forever.

https://www.espn.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/post/_/id/22457/reinsdorf-disappointed-over-hof-vote

“Dick Allen had kind of a checkered career,” Reinsdorf said. “If I had been on the committee, I wouldn’t have voted for him. He only really had six really good years. I don’t think he would rise to the standard of the others, in my opinion. But when he was with the White Sox he certainly had Hall of Fame years.”

I'm going to disagree that Allen is greater than Baines based on total contribution to the game.

I think they both are Hall- worthy.

[South Side Hit Men]

2 minutes ago, Texsox said:

I'm going to disagree that Allen is greater than Baines based on total contribution to the game.

I think they both are Hall- worthy.

While I respect your opinion, and want to note Harold is my all time favorite White Sox player, looking at it objectively he was not a better player. Jerry's comments in my post addressed his on field performance, unless he was besmirching him with a "checkered career" comment.

Dick Allen finished as a 58.8 bWAR player and won the AL MVP. Dick Allen has six seasons with a 5.3 bWAR or higher, with two OVER 8.5 (8.6 and 8.8).

Harold Baines was a 38.7 bWAR player. He has two seasons above 2.9 (3.4 and 4.3). 9th was his highest MVP vote total. 

[Texsox]

2 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

While I respect your opinion, and want to note Harold is my all time favorite White Sox player, looking at it objectively he was not a better player. Jerry's comments in my post addressed his on field performance, unless he was besmirching him with a "checkered career" comment.

Dick Allen finished as a 58.8 bWAR player and won the AL MVP. Dick Allen has six seasons with a 5.3 bWAR or higher, with two OVER 8.5 (8.6 and 8.8).

Harold Baines was a 38.7 bWAR player. He has two seasons above 2.9 (3.4 and 4.3). 9th was his highest MVP vote total. 

Exactly why I said contribution to the game. I believe character should matter and Baines is a stand up guy that you want your kids looking up to.  I'm not saying DA isn't,  but few people are in Baines' class when it comes to integrity and honor. 

But I agree as a player DA deserves the nod. 

[NWINFan]

3 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Thank God he isn't on the committee because he is clueless. He had 8 years of a .900 + OPS that was when it wasn't HR or bust. The guy has the same career OPS+ as Frank Thomas and Willie Mays.

JR does sound clueless on Allen. Then again, Allen was on the club before JR bought the team, and so we know there was no Sox history until January 1981.

[Texsox]

31 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

JR does sound clueless on Allen. Then again, Allen was on the club before JR bought the team, and so we know there was no Sox history until January 1981.

Sox history would have been split between the time they were in Chicago and after the move without that SOB JR coming in and keeping the team in Chicago. 

[poppysox]

11 hours ago, NWINFan said:

It would have been great to have Allen on that team. Who knows what would have happened?

I was at the game in 1972 when he hit the game winning HR against Sparky Lyle and the Yankees. That was most awe-inspiring home run I had ever seen at that point in my life. It still is.

There is no doubt Allen saved the White Sox when he came to Chicago in 1972. The team had no money, a shrinking fan base, and just didn't have the resources to compete as a major league franchise. Without Allen, the team could have ended up in Seattle.

I believe that Allen has to rank as one of the greatest all-around players in MLB history. But he had other problems and it harmed his career. He should have put up numbers that would have forced a Hall of Fame selection. However, I am convinced he began to lose interest and his stats showed it. Players with 340 homers usually don't make Hall. Players with 500 do, and he should have had more than 500.

I feel two ways about Dick Allen: I remember him for that great things he did and for the great player he was, and also am saddened because he could have done so much more.

I hear ya.  He liked the smokes and he loved the horses.  Neither helped keep him focused on baseball.  There is no doubt in my mind if he played the game with today's ball...someone would have gotten killed.  He would have set the standard for exit velocity.

[Middle Buffalo]

On 12/7/2020 at 3:19 PM, Middle Buffalo said:

I wish they’d make the 72 uniforms the Sunday alternate this year in his honor. I’m tired of the ‘83 unis.

I liked my idea so much, I wrote to Brooks Boyer. His response:

“There is a process for regularly worn uniforms that requires approval from MLB over a year and half in advance. We couldn’t use these uniforms on Sundays even if we had a desire to do so because they were not submitted for approval. As a reference point, any 2022 uniform adjustments had to be submitted last month.  

I am hopeful we can have a season and do something to honor the life and playing days of Dick Allen. Great player. HOF worthy in my opinion.

All the best,

Brooks”

[South Side Fireworks Man]

On 12/8/2020 at 4:51 PM, Texsox said:

Sox history would have been split between the time they were in Chicago and after the move without that SOB JR coming in and keeping the team in Chicago. 

Sox wouldn't have remained in Chicago if it weren't for the early '70s rebirth in interest led by Dick Allen. 

[Texsox]

13 minutes ago, South Side Fireworks Man said:

Sox wouldn't have remained in Chicago if it weren't for the early '70s rebirth in interest led by Dick Allen. 

Good point.