It's not the player, it's the process

[almagest]

7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

One concern that I think many of us haven't really addressed is there is obviously a real possibility that Kopech and Cease are not good. I like the stuff and the ceiling, but if both fall flat on their face next season the White Sox are entering the 2021 off-season needing to fill three rotation spots with the 4th one opening up the next off-season. That's less than ideal to say the least, which is why I thought control was so important in this deal.

If both Kopech and Cease fail this rebuild is screwed no matter what. They'd need to build an entire rotation from free agency or wait until any second wave comes up, at which point the existing core is expensive and/or leaving.

[fathom]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I was replying to his post; I don't believe it'll be two years and done. I do have concerns about entering next off-season having to fill 3 SP rotation spots if Kopech and Cease aren't good.

Then they will spend on pitching as the offense will be completely covered. It won’t be 30 million dollar guys, but it will be useful pitchers.

[TomPickle]

9 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

One concern that I think many of us haven't really addressed is there is obviously a real possibility that Kopech and Cease are not good. I like the stuff and the ceiling, but if both fall flat on their face next season the White Sox are entering the 2021 off-season needing to fill three rotation spots with the 4th one opening up the next off-season. That's less than ideal to say the least, which is why I thought control was so important in this deal.

If Cease and Kopech aren't good then it's even more important to make moves like this to win right now when you still have Giolito and Keuchel.

[Jerksticks]

Man you guys.  We just fleeced the Rangers and people are mad.  
we fleeced them, not the other way around. 

[ChiSox1917]

This all comes down to whether or not they can extend lynn. If they can extend him for another two years (preferably team or vesting option for the second year), then it is ok. If they cant, then its a meh trade at best.  
 

i like lynn a lot. But at his age, the question is does he age like verlander? Or jon lester?  

[Quin]

Can someone explain to me the Lynn wouldn't be here without La Russa takes?

Lynn didn't have a no trade clause.

[Rowand44]

20 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I didn't buy into the team literally not trying to even put MLB players on the field for 4-5 years so that they could be competitive for two years. The rebuild has to result in a competitive window longer than the rebuild took otherwise it's a failure imo.

And what if Dane isn't good?  There's that possibility as well.  And obviously we all want this competitive window to last as long as possible but as of now we have Giolito for 3 more seasons, it's time to take a run at this thing now and stop worrying what's going to happen 6 years down the road.

[ThirdGen]

8 minutes ago, Quin said:

Can someone explain to me the Lynn wouldn't be here without La Russa takes?

Lynn didn't have a no trade clause.

I think the claim is that LaRussa forced Hahn to make this trade as he has history with Lynn.  Which of course ignores the reality that the Sox were interested in Lynn at the trade deadline when LaRussa worked for LAA.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, Rowand44 said:

And what if Dane isn't good?  There's that possibility as well.  And obviously we all want this competitive window to last as long as possible but as of now we have Giolito for 3 more seasons, it's time to take a run at this thing now and stop worrying what's going to happen 6 years down the road.

Yes, but if you sign a starter or acquire an additional starter by absorbing salary and giving up a lesser important asset you not only have that acquired asset, but you also have Dunning there as a safety net.

That's the point of hanging on to a Dunning; he's not guaranteed to be anything, but having more assets is better than less. That's the problem with trading things of value instead of simply acquiring things using that "financial flexibility" the White Sox raved about so much for the past three years.

[ThirdGen]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yes, but if you sign a starter or acquire an additional starter by absorbing salary and giving up a lesser important asset you not only have that acquired asset, but you also have Dunning there as a safety net.

That's the point of hanging on to a Dunning; he's not guaranteed to be anything, but having more assets is better than less. That's the problem with trading things of value instead of simply acquiring things using that "financial flexibility" the White Sox raved about so much for the past three years.

I'm not sure that I can think of a single championship team in the history of baseball that was completed without trading a couple of prospects along the way.  Its always a mix.

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Lance Lynn wouldn't be here without La Russa. Praise Tony

I think this is patently false, especially since the Sox were interested in Lynn prior to 2020 White Sox manager TLR being a twinkle in JR's eye.  

I don't doubt that TLR had good things to say about a potential Lynn acquisition, but to say the Sox wouldn't have been interested in Lynn without TLR is likely a big reach, considering what we know.  

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

And Adam Eaton comes in to prove the process is complete shit.

[Jerksticks]

Really excited to watch the 891 lineup turnover every time.  
 

2021 White Sox might score the most runs, ever. 

[raBBit]

1 hour ago, Jerksticks said:

Really excited to watch the 891 lineup turnover every time.  
 

2021 White Sox might score the most runs, ever. 

Having Eaton-Madrigal back to back after our 1-7 is a never ending nightmare.

[Superstar Lamar]

anyone remember what the offer/ask was for Lynn at the 2020 trading deadline?  Would today's offer have gotten him from the Rangers?

[raBBit]

3 minutes ago, Superstar Lamar said:

anyone remember what the offer/ask was for Lynn at the 2020 trading deadline?  Would today's offer have gotten him from the Rangers?

Supposedly one of Kopech/Vaughn.

[SoCalChiSox]

1 minute ago, raBBit said:

Supposedly one of Kopech/Vaughn.

Rabbit.....thoughts on Eaton over Joc?

Most of us are pretty pissed. Even if they sign Hendricks ill still be pissed. 

Any chance Sox will sign Schwarber to be DH since LH power is still needed? Maybe keep Vaughn in the minors for a few months.

[VAfan]

4 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

the process turned out to be one Lance Lynn sized pile of shit 

If you expected the White Sox to start paying out contracts like Boston, the Yankees, and the Dodgers, then you are just being naive. 

Lance Lynn has the second most WAR of any starter over the last two years. He's been more consistent than Trevor Bauer, who everyone ranks as the top FA pitcher. He's signed for only $8M, which means the Sox can afford to extend him for a couple of years. They could also use the money saved to extend Giolito, sign a closer, and make other moves. 

The White Sox have an exciting team with a young core that is going to get a lot better. They were 2nd in the AL in runs last year with holes at DH and RF, an off year driven by Covid illness from Moncada, and Robert's up and down rookie season. They have Andrew Vaughn ready to step in at DH, and Adam Eaton to pair with Adam Engle in RF. Their offense will be better. Lynn makes their starting rotation MUCH better. They have the pitching coach who turned Giolito around now working with all the young arms the Sox have compiled. 

And to lead them, they have the most accomplished manager in the integrated era in Tony LaRussa. 

I'm pumped about the Sox. If you and the many other naysayers on Sox Talk want to keep b****ing, go right ahead. 

[VAfan]

1 hour ago, raBBit said:

Having Eaton-Madrigal back to back after our 1-7 is a never ending nightmare.

It might go Robert, Eaton, Madrigal, Anderson.  That group should put tremendous pressure on pitchers since all of them can run and the last 3 should have high OBP numbers. 

 

[raBBit]

1 hour ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Rabbit.....thoughts on Eaton over Joc?

Most of us are pretty pissed. Even if they sign Hendricks ill still be pissed. 

Any chance Sox will sign Schwarber to be DH since LH power is still needed? Maybe keep Vaughn in the minors for a few months.

Would I prefer Pederson? Probably yes. Moreso due to health than anything else. I have always liked Eaton's style of play though. If he can stay healthy this year I don't see Pederson outperforming by much if any. And while it should be a lesser concern, I think Pederson gets more money. 

I think they get a short term DH option like Schwarber but cheaper and easier to cut bait with. Why would Schwarber want to come her other than to stay in Chicago and to win? I think another org could give him a better guarantee to play close to everyday. 

 

[Balta1701]

31 minutes ago, VAfan said:

It might go Robert, Eaton, Madrigal, Anderson.  That group should put tremendous pressure on pitchers since all of them can run and the last 3 should have high OBP numbers. 

 

I will be stunningly disappointed if Robert is a #7 hitter this year.

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I will be stunningly disappointed if Robert is a #7 hitter this year.

The only way I can see that is if they add Brantley and putting him in the middle of the order, bumping everyone down.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 hour ago, VAfan said:

If you expected the White Sox to start paying out contracts like Boston, the Yankees, and the Dodgers, then you are just being naive. 

Lance Lynn has the second most WAR of any starter over the last two years. He's been more consistent than Trevor Bauer, who everyone ranks as the top FA pitcher. He's signed for only $8M, which means the Sox can afford to extend him for a couple of years. They could also use the money saved to extend Giolito, sign a closer, and make other moves. 

The White Sox have an exciting team with a young core that is going to get a lot better. They were 2nd in the AL in runs last year with holes at DH and RF, an off year driven by Covid illness from Moncada, and Robert's up and down rookie season. They have Andrew Vaughn ready to step in at DH, and Adam Eaton to pair with Adam Engle in RF. Their offense will be better. Lynn makes their starting rotation MUCH better. They have the pitching coach who turned Giolito around now working with all the young arms the Sox have compiled. 

And to lead them, they have the most accomplished manager in the integrated era in Tony LaRussa. 

I'm pumped about the Sox. If you and the many other naysayers on Sox Talk want to keep b****ing, go right ahead. 

Why do people say this and list three teams.

In the history of the game, only the Pittsburgh Pirates, the Cleveland Indians and the Oakland Athletics have a smaller "largest contract in team history." Even the Tampa Bay Rays have offered 26 million more than the Sox ever have.

Please stop acting like fans want the Sox to be the Yankees. I want them to act like every team in MLB that isn't the bottom three spenders in the game.

Diamondbacks gave Greinke 200 million.
Brewers gave Yelich 188 million
Mariners gave Cano 240 million
Padres just gave Machado 300 Million
Orioles gave Chris Davis 166 miLOLion
Blue Jays gave Vernon Wells 126 million

Those teams have smaller market shares than the White Sox and all have offered almost two to three times as much as the Sox have.

Edited December 8, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Buehrle>Wood]

4 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

I think this is patently false, especially since the Sox were interested in Lynn prior to 2020 White Sox manager TLR being a twinkle in JR's eye.  

I don't doubt that TLR had good things to say about a potential Lynn acquisition, but to say the Sox wouldn't have been interested in Lynn without TLR is likely a big reach, considering what we know.  

I'm just going by the Ken Rosenthal article. He rejected being trade at the deadline. He presumably is accepting being traded now. TLR being the difference now.

[BamaDoc]

9 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Why do people say this and list three teams.

In the history of the game, only the Pittsburgh Pirates, the Cleveland Indians and the Oakland Athletics have a smaller "largest contract in team history." Even the Tampa Bay Rays have offered 26 million more than the Sox ever have.

Please stop acting like fans want the Sox to be the Yankees. I want them to act like every team in MLB that isn't the bottom three spenders in the game.

Diamondbacks gave Greinke 200 million.
Brewers gave Yelich 188 million
Mariners gave Cano 240 million
Padres just gave Machado 300 Million
Orioles gave Chris Davis 166 miLOLion
Blue Jays gave Vernon Wells 126 million

Those teams have smaller market shares than the White Sox and all have offered almost two to three times as much as the Sox have.

Interesting data.  How many of those contracts look good in hindsight?