Nomar Mazara vs Adam Eaton (2020)

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

I'll throw this in here as well as it's always good for a laugh.

There are two guys in my baseball life that I remember hearing openly hateful things directed at them from their own clubhouses; Adam Eaton and Nick Swisher. I guess Carl too, but man people just didn't understand the Dinosaur man!

[NCsoxfan]

I think the move is fine. He probably fits into the lineup pretty well. My only complaint is that he’s a jerk 

[South Side Hit Men]

Adam Eaton past four years, nearly every RF free agent is a better option in RF, at bat and in the clubhouse. What a wasted opportunity to placate Tony LaRussa.

2017: G: 23 HR: 2 OPS: .854 oWAR: 0.9 dWAR: -0.6 WAR: 0.3

2018: G: 95 HR: 5 OPS: .805 oWAR: 1.8 dWAR: -1.1 WAR: 1.1

2019: G: 151 HR: 15 OPS: .792 oWAR: 1.9 dWAR: -0.9 WAR: 1.5

2020: G: 41 HR: 4 OPS: .669 oWAR: -0.3 dWAR: -0.7 WAR: -0.9

 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

On 12/8/2020 at 1:55 PM, South Side Hit Men said:

Adam Eaton past four years, nearly every RF free agent is a better option in RF, at bat and in the clubhouse. What a wasted opportunity to placate Tony LaRussa.

2017: G: 23 HR: 2 OPS: .854 oWAR: 0.9 dWAR: -0.6 WAR: 0.3

2018: G: 95 HR: 5 OPS: .805 oWAR: 1.8 dWAR: -1.1 WAR: 1.1

2019: G: 151 HR: 15 OPS: .792 oWAR: 1.9 dWAR: -0.9 WAR: 1.5

2020: G: 41 HR: 4 OPS: .669 oWAR: -0.3 dWAR: -0.7 WAR: -0.9

 

Is that good?

[Two-Gun Pete]

On 12/8/2020 at 1:55 PM, South Side Hit Men said:

Adam Eaton past four years, nearly every RF free agent is a better option in RF, at bat and in the clubhouse. What a wasted opportunity to placate Tony LaRussa.

2017: G: 23 HR: 2 OPS: .854 oWAR: 0.9 dWAR: -0.6 WAR: 0.3

2018: G: 95 HR: 5 OPS: .805 oWAR: 1.8 dWAR: -1.1 WAR: 1.1

2019: G: 151 HR: 15 OPS: .792 oWAR: 1.9 dWAR: -0.9 WAR: 1.5

2020: G: 41 HR: 4 OPS: .669 oWAR: -0.3 dWAR: -0.7 WAR: -0.9

 

Yeah, Eaton's reputation > what he actually is. He's not a plus bat at his position. He's not a plus defender any more. He's always injured, and he's a piece of shit as well.

After Springer, I thought that Joc was the best choice. I thought Eaton or Puig would be your desperation options. 

Given the low rent nature of this signing, I hope they're working on a Giolito extension, as well as a Colas or Cespedes signing.

[pcq]

On 12/8/2020 at 1:13 PM, Superstar Lamar said:

I was willing to give Mazara a pass for 2020.  His expected arbitration was just too high, especially with the market flooded with veteran RF

Maz is a project guy no time for that. Eaton is coming home to rule the roost under Tony's wing.

[Chicago White Sox]

Adam Eaton had a 117 wRC+ vs. RHP over his four seasons with the Nationals, driven by a .289 BA & .378 OBP.  That’s nowhere near as good as 2018 to 2019 Joc, but it’s a massive upgrade over Mazara if we get that player and the skill-set blends in nicely some of the more free swingers on team.  

My biggest gripe is the fact Eaton’s defense is trending in the wrong direction.  I know he’s been injured a ton and perhaps with a clean bill of health he turns things around defensively, but it’s definitely frustrating they went with such a high risk player after two straight years of terrible production out of RF.

[Two-Gun Pete]

53 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Adam Eaton had a 117 wRC+ vs. RHP over his four seasons with the Nationals, driven by a .289 BA & .378 OBP.  That’s nowhere near as good as 2018 to 2019 Joc, but it’s a massive upgrade over Mazara if we get that player and the skill-set blends in nicely some of the more free swingers on team.  

My biggest gripe is the fact Eaton’s defense is trending in the wrong direction.  I know he’s been injured a ton and perhaps with a clean bill of health he turns things around defensively, but it’s definitely frustrating they went with such a high risk player after two straight years of terrible production out of RF.

I hear what you're saying. But I also feel like what you just posted here is how this FO talks themselves into believing that a C/D-level signing is a B-level signing.

Its how the Gio Gonzalez signing occurred; I really think they thought he was going to be solid.

In this instance; the B-level signing might have been Joc, and might have been a few million more per year than Eaton. But I think the return on investment would have been much greater, if they'd gone for Joc, instead.

 

Shit like this is how the SOX always lose out in the FA market. It isn't just about signing every megastar. Its about knowing the tiers of players available in FA.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Two-Gun Pete

[SoxBlanco]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

My biggest gripe is the fact Eaton’s defense is trending in the wrong direction.  I know he’s been injured a ton and perhaps with a clean bill of health he turns things around defensively, but it’s definitely frustrating they went with such a high risk player after two straight years of terrible production out of RF.

Does anybody know specifically why he has declined defensively? Has his range declined? Weak arm? Dropping balls out there?

I just can’t imagine he’s that bad out there, but that’s what the numbers are saying. Can anybody who has actually watched him shed some light?

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

15 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Does anybody know specifically why he has declined defensively? Has his range declined? Weak arm? Dropping balls out there?

I just can’t imagine he’s that bad out there, but that’s what the numbers are saying. Can anybody who has actually watched him shed some light?

 

Most of eatons defensive value in his one great year was tied solely to outfield assists. For a guy with just an average arm, that's an anomaly. He was never very good off the bat in center or right, but the sox did a nice job positioning him, he made a couple plays he didn't usually make, and he threw out a lot of guys. A perfect storm.

Eaton was a shit center fielder which had a lot to do with Arizonas desire to move him in the first place. He was never expected to be a great defender in the first place and he ended up being worse than expected and now he's old. Defense deteriorates faster than offense on average.

. 

Edited December 10, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Chisoxfn]

7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

 

Most of eatons defensive value in his one great year was tied solely to outfield assists. For a guy with just an average arm, that's an anomaly. He was never very good off the bat in center or right, but the sox did a nice job positioning him, he made a couple plays he didn't usually make, and he threw out a lot of guys. A perfect storm.

Eaton was a shit center fielder which had a lot to do with Arizonas desire to move him in the first place. He was never expected to be a great defender in the first place and he ended up being worse than expected and now he's old. Defense deteriorates faster than offense on average.

. 

But other than last year, he's consistently put up very good OBP's, so in this offense with a ton of firepower around him, there is a value in that...let alone fact that he hits RHP pretty good.  Joc is probably a better get - but maybe Joc is going to get more years and more money and Sox didn't want to do that....but Eaton as the worst player on the everyday lineup is a-okay with me.  

[fathom]

17 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

 

Most of eatons defensive value in his one great year was tied solely to outfield assists. For a guy with just an average arm, that's an anomaly. He was never very good off the bat in center or right, but the sox did a nice job positioning him, he made a couple plays he didn't usually make, and he threw out a lot of guys. A perfect storm.

Eaton was a shit center fielder which had a lot to do with Arizonas desire to move him in the first place. He was never expected to be a great defender in the first place and he ended up being worse than expected and now he's old. Defense deteriorates faster than offense on average.

. 

Personally I thought his jumps off the bat in 2016 were the best I have ever seen from a Sox RF

[SoxBlanco]

7 minutes ago, fathom said:

Personally I thought his jumps off the bat in 2016 were the best I have ever seen from a Sox RF

Agreed. That’s why I’m so confused by his negative defensive numbers. It wasn’t just all the times he threw somebody out. The eye test told me he was solid out there, and much better than how he looked in CF. I can’t imagine he is bad out there now, but I admittedly haven’t watched him much at all in the last few years. 

[ChiSox1917]

This is a prime example of the danger in using statistics you dont understand to try and make a point

[SoxAce]

11 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Agreed. That’s why I’m so confused by his negative defensive numbers. It wasn’t just all the times he threw somebody out. The eye test told me he was solid out there, and much better than how he looked in CF. I can’t imagine he is bad out there now, but I admittedly haven’t watched him much at all in the last few years. 

Personally I think that knee injury killed him. Didn't ptatc say due to the other damage other than his ACL that he would have chronic problems in his knee after his career is over?

[ChiSox1917]

13 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Agreed. That’s why I’m so confused by his negative defensive numbers. It wasn’t just all the times he threw somebody out. The eye test told me he was solid out there, and much better than how he looked in CF. I can’t imagine he is bad out there now, but I admittedly haven’t watched him much at all in the last few years. 

Defensive WAR metrics are still a major work in progress.  Combined that with small sample sizes and IMO you can throw out any defensive WAR component for eaton.

His outfield jump and sprint speed is still well above league average per statcast.  

[Leonard Zelig]

I’m not in love with either deal the Sox made this week, but I think the one year commitments to Lynn and Eaton give them the chance to see how this season goes as far as COVID, and leave them the flexibility to spend next year depending on revenue.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Leonard Zelig

[Sambuca]

Eaton is so much better of a bat to slide into the White Sox lineup. 

If healthy, which I understand is a big if and I’m assuming they did some homework, he’s providing around .290/.360/.790 with some speed on the base paths and plays like a spark plug. 

His defense has declined pretty drastically, and that is an issue, but since he doesn’t seem to have lost too much speed, I’m hoping it comes back a bit.  Has his arm gotten worse?

Anyway, I don’t love the signing, but if the Sox get one more decent OF/DH, it’s a solid move as the lineup looks nice with him at the top or bottom.

This team doesn’t need more home runs, they could use more straight up hitters and guys who get on base like Madrigal, Eaton, and hopefully Brantley.

These guys will keep lineup moving, make pitchers work, and hit consistently.  This will help the power guys out in a lot of ways and avoid prolonged team slumps.

I was all about the Mazara trade and seeing what he could do. But gambling on him having a better season than Eaton when he’s never had one close is way too much of a risk next season.  Eaton brings so much more to the table than an all or nothing hitter that is mostly nothing.

[poppysox]

Any of us who watched Eaton make the switch from center to right know he was a natural-born right fielder.  His jump on the ball was first class and his arm was both strong and accurate.  Like others, I haven't seen much of his play in the last several years.  With the recent scouting reductions, I do wonder how the FO gets the info on Eaton's current abilities.