Dick Allen Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 This board has gone from signing Machado AND Harper, to trying to save Uncle Jer $13 million 4 years from now. 4 5 4 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 18 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said: You keep saying that people excuse the owner for being cheap, when in reality they are just be realistic about how the Sox operate. Everybody wants Jerry to break the bank, but we know he won't. This is probably the most accurate thing you have ever posted at Soxtalk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: This is probably the most accurate thing you have ever posted at Soxtalk. Make sure to like my post then to acknowledge that. Thanks 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said: Make sure to like my post then to acknowledge that. Thanks This reply is worth way more. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 I know how they operate, and it's absolutely stupid. I'd much rather pay good players extra for declining years than pay different bad players each season for zero production. Their cost/benefit calculations are completely messed up and it's baffling. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maloney.adam Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 9 minutes ago, almagest said: I know how they operate, and it's absolutely stupid. I'd much rather pay good players extra for declining years than pay different bad players each season for zero production. Their cost/benefit calculations are completely messed up and it's baffling. Oh no the sky is falling again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 8 minutes ago, almagest said: I know how they operate, and it's absolutely stupid. I'd much rather pay good players extra for declining years than pay different bad players each season for zero production. Their cost/benefit calculations are completely messed up and it's baffling. I feel like you have to be either in or out at this point as a front office. Rick told us the window is now open on his last Zoom, and none of us even needed to be told that, we could see it with our own eyes. It's go time. Yes, the White Sox operate on a budget most of us don't always agree with. Yes, in 2024 a bunch of the Sox core will be expensive and should be right in the peak of their primes. Yes, Liam Hendricks will be 35 at that point and not a good bet to still be throwing at a high level. But the time to win is now. Right now, this season. And next season. And the season after that. I'm not going to say "Ah screw 4 years from now, you'll figure it out!" because that's not realistic and not how a business should be run. But we're talking about 12-14 million in 2024. If you're all in with this team, you really believe in this core and are confident with what you built...don't let the fear of an extra 14 million in 2024 slow this train down. I know there is a lot of uncertainly with COVID and fans in the future.....but if this all works the team is going to be surrounded by a tremendous amount of interest and added revenue that should more than cover Liam Hendricks in 2024. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 14 hours ago, maloney.adam said: Surely the White Sox and Royals will finish the off-season ranked one and two which is what makes this such an informative tweet and not at all misleading. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 Just now, Tony said: I feel like you have to be either in or out at this point as a front office. Rick told us the window is now open on his last Zoom, and none of us even needed to be told that, we could see it with our own eyes. It's go time. Yes, the White Sox operate on a budget most of us don't always agree with. Yes, in 2024 a bunch of the Sox core will be expensive and should be right in the peak of their primes. Yes, Liam Hendricks will be 35 at that point and not a good bet to still be throwing at a high level. But the time to win is now. Right now, this season. And next season. And the season after that. I'm not going to say "Ah screw 4 years from now, you'll figure it out!" because that's not realistic and not how a business should be run. But we're talking about 12-14 million in 2024. If you're all in with this team, you really believe in this core and are confident with what you built...don't let the fear of an extra 14 million in 2024 slow this train down. I know there is a lot of uncertainly with COVID and fans in the future.....but if this all works the team is going to be surrounded by a tremendous amount of interest and added revenue that should more than cover Liam Hendricks in 2024. I can even accept a bit of caution when you say the window is open, because you want the window to be open for a long period of time. The problem is you also have the organization talking about the goal being a World Series this year, but they sure aren't willing to spend like it is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Gload Fan Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 50 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: This board has gone from signing Machado AND Harper, to trying to save Uncle Jer $13 million 4 years from now. The underratedness of this post cannot be quantified. 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I can even accept a bit of caution when you say the window is open, because you want the window to be open for a long period of time. The problem is you also have the organization talking about the goal being a World Series this year, but they sure aren't willing to spend like it is the case. My frustrations are here; the White Sox traded for a one year rental yet when signing a player they are worried about year 4? Are they all-in this year or not? It's confusing to say the least. Lynn isn't here next year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I can even accept a bit of caution when you say the window is open, because you want the window to be open for a long period of time. The problem is you also have the organization talking about the goal being a World Series this year, but they sure aren't willing to spend like it is the case. And it's about context as well. This is different than signing George Springer to a 5 year deal. I'm not calling for that. But you had Alex Colome making 10 million last season. Yes, 14 million is a lot for a RP especially when they are 35, but again.....if all goes well with this core over the next 3 years.......paying him that extra year for what took place over years 21-22-23 should be more than worth it......but you have to be willing to roll the dice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 10 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Surely the White Sox and Royals will finish the off-season ranked one and two which is what makes this such an informative tweet and not at all misleading. I thought the same thing. This Tweet doesn't matter. Plenty of offseason and free agents left to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 14 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Surely the White Sox and Royals will finish the off-season ranked one and two which is what makes this such an informative tweet and not at all misleading. It’s misleading because they didn’t include the additional tweets telling everyone not to panic, as no one is making moves so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 19 minutes ago, maloney.adam said: Oh no the sky is falling again. What about how this org operates with free agent signings for the past 5 years leads to your optimism? Also there's a big difference between "I am concerned about how this team operates with free agent signings as they waste their budget on marginal players every year" and "the sky is falling". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 34 minutes ago, Tony said: I feel like you have to be either in or out at this point as a front office. Rick told us the window is now open on his last Zoom, and none of us even needed to be told that, we could see it with our own eyes. It's go time. Yes, the White Sox operate on a budget most of us don't always agree with. Yes, in 2024 a bunch of the Sox core will be expensive and should be right in the peak of their primes. Yes, Liam Hendricks will be 35 at that point and not a good bet to still be throwing at a high level. But the time to win is now. Right now, this season. And next season. And the season after that. I'm not going to say "Ah screw 4 years from now, you'll figure it out!" because that's not realistic and not how a business should be run. But we're talking about 12-14 million in 2024. If you're all in with this team, you really believe in this core and are confident with what you built...don't let the fear of an extra 14 million in 2024 slow this train down. I know there is a lot of uncertainly with COVID and fans in the future.....but if this all works the team is going to be surrounded by a tremendous amount of interest and added revenue that should more than cover Liam Hendricks in 2024. I'm in between. I like a lot of what they've done locking a lot of long-term talent up to long-term reasonable deals, I like the shift in drafting strategy and I like the trade returns for the most part. I like the Grandal signing a lot. Keuchel was a good second option to Wheeler. I really don't like the rest of their free agent and core supplementation strategy. I think they should be in on Bauer and Springer and other higher priced free agents because of the financial flexibility they have with their young core, and with the strong revenue position of the team. I don't think they should be looking at rebound candidates or other marginal players because the presumed goal is savings and flexibility, but signing bad players to short team deals is a larger waste of capital overall than a big contract to a premium free agent - it's just not as apparent on initial inspection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maloney.adam Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 (edited) 56 minutes ago, almagest said: What about how this org operates with free agent signings for the past 5 years leads to your optimism? Also there's a big difference between "I am concerned about how this team operates with free agent signings as they waste their budget on marginal players every year" and "the sky is falling". I understand your point of view about how they operate. I don’t understand some of their decisions on where they are spending the money either. However, let’s see what they do the rest of the offseason before we assume anything though. Edited December 16, 2020 by maloney.adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 25 minutes ago, almagest said: I'm in between. I like a lot of what they've done locking a lot of long-term talent up to long-term reasonable deals, I like the shift in drafting strategy and I like the trade returns for the most part. I like the Grandal signing a lot. Keuchel was a good second option to Wheeler. I really don't like the rest of their free agent and core supplementation strategy. I think they should be in on Bauer and Springer and other higher priced free agents because of the financial flexibility they have with their young core, and with the strong revenue position of the team. I don't think they should be looking at rebound candidates or other marginal players because the presumed goal is savings and flexibility, but signing bad players to short team deals is a larger waste of capital overall than a big contract to a premium free agent - it's just not as apparent on initial inspection. In general I agree with their stance on not paying the high priced long term deals for pitchers. They rarely work out due to injury or ineffectiveness. With the budget limitations the FO has to work with, a contract of this type could cripple this team. For example I was one of the only posters to push for Keuchal as opposed to Wheeler. Not that Keuchal was or is better simply because of the years allocated to the contract. This is why the development and trading for pitchers is so important for this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 12 minutes ago, maloney.adam said: I understand your point of view about how they operate. I don’t understand some of their decisions on where they are spending the money either. However, let’s see what they do the rest of the offseason before we assume anything though. You've been saying this forever it seems; what about the last few off-seasons have led you to give this team the benefit of the doubt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 11 minutes ago, maloney.adam said: I understand your point of view about how they operate. I don’t understand some of their decisions on where they are spending the money either. However, let’s see what they do the rest of the offseason before we assume anything though. Operationally it seems like they're trying to strike early and avoid situations like Machado in 2018, which is totally understandable, but it leads me to believe they're close to finishing up. I expect a pivot from Hendriks soon to another closer, and maybe Quintana or a reclamation project. These moves are not going to put them over the rest of the AL unless every rookie or other question mark hits near their best projected outcomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: You've been saying this forever it seems; what about the last few off-seasons have led you to give this team the benefit of the doubt? Everyone agreed last years offseason was a huge success.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 10 biggest AAV pitching contracts all time: Gerrit Cole, $36 million Stephen Strasburg, $35 million Justin Verlander, $33 million Zack Greinke, $32.5 million David Price, $31 million Clayton Kershaw, $31 million Max Scherzer, $30 million Roger Clemens, $28 million Jacob deGrom, $27.5 million Jon Lester, $25.8 million That's a pretty good hit rate imo. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruni Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 I'd pass at paying a kings ransom for a (current) elite closer and, instead double down on a quality 4th starter. The White Sox are blessed with young, impact arms, including one (Crochet) who has the stuff to be THE elite closer in the AL within the window of contention. If then rookie reliver Bobby Jenks could close for the World Series winning '05 White Sox, so can Crochet backed up with the young and effective pen. The greater need for the White Sox is another 160 - 180+ effective innings eater that can keep the team in games and give them a fighting chance to win every time they take the mound. The season is a grind - a war of attrition. Three proven starters is not enough. Expecting Cease to make the leap and sustain quality innings season-long and through the playoff run is not realistic, in my opinion. Nor is counting on Kopech, who will be lucky to be allowed to throw 100 innings between the minors and majors this year for arm health. If one of the 'big-3' starters goes down for any reason, they are really in trouble. How many games can we survive, let alone have a chance to win with Lopez starting? Anyway, get that proven, quality 4th starter. Then find some spare change under Uncle Jerry's couch and, come Feb/March pick up some DH/bench insurance from the plethora of free agent bats that will be begging for a major league deal by then. Wait it out - there are always passible bats available as spring training nears. Don't rush/over pay for that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: Everyone agreed last years offseason was a huge success.. 1 year later 50% of fans wanted to keep James McCann over Yasmani Grandal (not saying they're right, just saying speaking for everyone seems like a bit much) last year I can't say I was happy with getting Keuchel (he obviously pitched well last year, but I'm worried about him this year as I was last) If they had signed Wheeler and Grandal I would say it was a huge success; but signing Keuchel/Grandal was a step in the right direction but not a huge success imo. Edited December 16, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Surely the White Sox and Royals will finish the off-season ranked one and two which is what makes this such an informative tweet and not at all misleading. It's not misleading at all. Will Sox lead AL in offseason spending? Most likely not. But at this point, they've improved more than any team in the AL and whining about them constantly doesn't really make sense right now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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