Reinsdorf and Hahn: what happened?

[RagahRagah]

3 hours ago, poppysox said:

Perhaps that is true.  However, this idea that the owner of a business should keep his nose out of employee's work-related duties is not really how the real world works.

That's called micromanaging, and it's very bad.

[poppysox]

7 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

That's called micromanaging, and it's very bad.

Yeah...I'm sure most of us would let an employee spend millions of our dollars and not ask questions.  We pick apart each other's opinions and challenge the smallest of details yet we wouldn't open our mouths so as not to offend our GM.  I'm sure the world is full of bosses who let you spend millions of dollars unchallenged...I just never worked for one of them.

[Jack Parkman]

10 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Yeah...I'm sure most of us would let an employee spend millions of our dollars and not ask questions.  We pick apart each other's opinions and challenge the smallest of details yet we wouldn't open our mouths so as not to offend our GM.  I'm sure the world is full of bosses who let you spend millions of dollars unchallenged...I just never worked for one of them.

Um....that's the job description of a GM of a sports franchise. Owners should be hands off and let the (baseball/football/basketball/hockey) guy do their jobs. Give them a budget and let them fill out the team as they see fit within the parameters of the payroll budget. 

I will never understand why Jerry prefers to spend $30M on 3 guys who suck vs spending the same amount of money for someone who is actually good at their job. (because that's what baseball is for the players...a job) 

Edited December 9, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[fathom]

9 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Um....that's the job description of a GM of a sports franchise. Owners should be hands off and let the (baseball/football/basketball/hockey) guy do their jobs. Give them a budget and let them fill out the team as they see fit within the parameters of the payroll budget. 

I will never understand why Jerry prefers to spend $30M on 3 guys who suck vs spending the same amount of money for someone who is actually good at their job. (because that's what baseball is for the players...a job) 

30 million for 3 guys over a year span is a lot different that 150 million over 5 years.  Jerry doesn’t care for long term deals. Remember when Bruce used to say he wouldn’t go more than 3 years for the outfield group they went after?  We don’t even know if Jerry believes in opt outs anymore 

[Jack Parkman]

4 minutes ago, fathom said:

30 million for 3 guys over a year span is a lot different that 150 million over 5 years.  Jerry doesn’t care for long term deals. Remember when Bruce used to say he wouldn’t go more than 3 years for the outfield group they went after?  We don’t even know if Jerry believes in opt outs anymore 

But at the end of the day, he ends up spending that $30M annually anyway......the difference is that they have that money available to spend every year. 

It's the definition of penny wise, dollar foolish. 

Edited December 9, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[poppysox]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

Um....that's the job description of a GM of a sports franchise. Owners should be hands off and let the (baseball/football/basketball/hockey) guy do their jobs. Give them a budget and let them fill out the team as they see fit within the parameters of the payroll budget. 

You are speaking in terms of how you view the position.  Ask Dave Dombrowski how long the average owner lets you operate unfettered.   I believe most teams work in a kind of groupthink environment.  RH is a contract specialist whereas KW is kind of a superscout.  JR has a fiduciary responsibility to an ownership group.  They work together for the common good IMO.

[RagahRagah]

1 hour ago, poppysox said:

Yeah...I'm sure most of us would let an employee spend millions of our dollars and not ask questions.  We pick apart each other's opinions and challenge the smallest of details yet we wouldn't open our mouths so as not to offend our GM.  I'm sure the world is full of bosses who let you spend millions of dollars unchallenged...I just never worked for one of them.

What does "millions of dollars" have to do with hiring TLR, pray tell?

[poppysox]

3 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

What does "millions of dollars" have to do with hiring TLR, pray tell?

Go back and read the thread.

[RagahRagah]

4 hours ago, poppysox said:

Go back and read the thread.

How about you just point me to the right post? LOL.

And it's a rhetorical question anyway. 

[IWokeUpLikeThis]

On 12/9/2020 at 4:16 AM, Dominikk85 said:

Hahn was tasked to do a very painful rebuild in which the sox were very bad. He did what he was asked for, traded some stars and built a top3 farm system in mlb. 

It took some time but this year it finally lead to success and the first post season appearance in like a decade.

Hahn also took efforts to turn a very backwards organization into at least middle of the pack team in analytics and player dev and when he announced that he fired ricky and cooper he said that he wants to get more analytics personnel in that presser.

Hahn was generally celebrated and voted executive of the year by media.

But then some stuff happened very quickly. A 75 year old TLR was hired despite jerry knowing the legal allegations but even if not TLR probably wasn't the guy hahn was describing at that presser.

Also the signing/trading of two older veterans eaton and lynn doesn't really look like a hahn move.

So how did this happen? I get jerry is an old man but he seemed to be fine with hahn modernizing the sox (player dev, coaching, analytics) and making them younger in the last 2-3 years so what did change his mind?

The sox are still in a good position to Win but still this seems to be a pretty big change of direction by jerry.

 

There’s no tension between Jerry, Kenny, Ricky, & Tony. I’ll put the Sox’ Mt Rushmore of Jerry, Kenny, Ricky, & Tony up against anyone’s. Hahn loves the hiring of LaRussa because Tony’s about to put a ring on his finger. 

[Jack Parkman]

https://www.soxmachine.com/2020/12/10/white-soxs-history-of-one-year-contracts-works-against-adam-eaton/

Hahn and Kenny have wasted 75M of Jerry's money on one year deals, getting worse than replacement level production as a whole. 

This is what I mean by.....spend the damn money on actual good players if you're going to spend it anyway. 

[southsideirish71]

9 hours ago, IWokeUpLikeThis said:

There’s no tension between Jerry, Kenny, Ricky, & Tony. I’ll put the Sox’ Mt Rushmore of Jerry, Kenny, Ricky, & Tony up against anyone’s. Hahn loves the hiring of LaRussa because Tony’s about to put a ring on his finger. 

Glad to see the grandkids are showing you how the internet works Hawk.  I hope retirement is working out well.  Did you go to full mast when we signed Eaton.  

[Wisebri224]

DO I think they should consider higher priced players?  Sure.  How did that work out on the other side of town?  Yep, they won one, but Heyward, Darvish, Lester, and you can go on with all the big money Theo spent and got what?  A team that made the World Series once.  I don;t get why everyone wants to crap the bed that we aren't paying $25 million plus for a pitcher that has a career ERA near 4 yet gripes about getting a pitcher that has seemed to get better with age and has a career ERA that is a half point lower and has won a WS ring.  Pay Springer Bryce Harper money on a per year contract?  Maybe but isn't it better to spend that money on pitching?  And after just completing a 60 game season in which we didn't get to see the kids pitch.  I think the Lynn trade is smart baseball, not cheap.  You sign Lynn to a short 2 year extension at 10-15 million per.  If Crochet, Kopech, Cease, or any of the others come through you have cash.  If not, that's where you spend.  You don't know that yet.  Is it purely being cheap?  Possibly, but I think it's more of a win now but still see what may be this year before all of a sudden you spend and then go, "Oops, shouldn't have spent there."

[Sambuca]

On 12/9/2020 at 9:28 AM, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Teflon Rick lives on.  There's a piece to all this that is missing.  I hope it comes out one day.  

Just tell us now.  How big of a twist is it?

[Harold's Leg Lift]

6 minutes ago, Sambuca said:

Just tell us now.  How big of a twist is it?

I haven't had that many beers yet.  It isn't anything dastardly.  It would just help explain how and why things went down the way they did.  

[Orlando]

1 hour ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I haven't had that many beers yet.  It isn't anything dastardly.  It would just help explain how and why things went down the way they did.  

Sounds like someone was trying to orchestrate maneuver things behind the chairman’s back and got caught. Maybe Hahn was saying things to the media that he knew weren’t true to try to force Jerry’s hand.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Orlando

[Sarava]

On 12/10/2020 at 6:46 PM, Jack Parkman said:

https://www.soxmachine.com/2020/12/10/white-soxs-history-of-one-year-contracts-works-against-adam-eaton/

Hahn and Kenny have wasted 75M of Jerry's money on one year deals, getting worse than replacement level production as a whole. 

This is what I mean by.....spend the damn money on actual good players if you're going to spend it anyway. 

We're probably paying for the Julio Cruz contract. They don't want to put all their eggs in one basket.

[pcq]

On 12/10/2020 at 1:14 PM, IWokeUpLikeThis said:

There’s no tension between Jerry, Kenny, Ricky, & Tony. I’ll put the Sox’ Mt Rushmore of Jerry, Kenny, Ricky, & Tony up against anyone’s. Hahn loves the hiring of LaRussa because Tony’s about to put a ring on his finger. 

Consider that Rick and Tony must confer on free agent moves and likely do not agree. 

[poppysox]

17 minutes ago, pcq said:

Consider that Rick and Tony must confer on free agent moves and likely do not agree. 

I believe Tony is number 4 in the pecking order...not second.  Rick probably seeks the opinion of Tony but reports to KW.  They are not totally turning the organization upside down for 1 or 2 years of TL.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 12/9/2020 at 7:07 AM, GreenSox said:

Trading a young pitcher off of the rotation for a 1 year rent looks exactly like a Hahn move.  This is the same stuff that did in his last attempt at a build-up (that was a disaster).  Hahn hasn't learned a thing, apparently. 

Signing a declining veteran isn't new to his menu either.

 Are you comparing Lance Lynn to James Shields or Samardzija ? Both were attempts at build ups and the Shields trade fits your description of "his last attempt at a build-up ( that was a disaster ). " The one year rent is more like Samardzija. Both were attempts to build up and both were disasters.Please clarify.