Indians will be no more

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

17 minutes ago, ChiSox1917 said:

 

This is some pretty poor projection on both of your parts. Voicing a disagreement isnt the same as claiming im offended by something. 

I know, it's actually much worse because you are claiming "you don't care at all" yet you still want the name to remain unchanged despite you knowing that it offends people - for a fact, you know it offends some natives. It honestly makes you sound intentionally evil. "You don't care" but your opinion is "fuck those people though." 

When I don't care about things, that means I'm good with doing what makes others feel better. That's kind of what "not caring" means.

[ChiSox1917]

8 minutes ago, Quin said:

In a thread about changing the name "Indians" to respect Native Americans - including Native American leaders who have been cited in this thread.

You decide to argue that non-white people can do racist things (which yes, clearly that is a thing). So because you don't get offended you resort to whataboutism. Because you totally don't get offended at all. Because you're not at all triggered about the name of a baseball team getting changed - and it's not even your team.

Grow up or stay mad, broski.

Is this serious? Do you think youre being clever?

what whataboutism did i bring up? The poster i responded to alleged that whites, but not other races, have been committing atrocites since the beginning of mankind. Do you agree with that statement?

The poster then used that argument, and my race, in an attempt to dismiss my opinions as if they were less valid than his. I think i might be offended if i cared what ray thought, but now i just find it funny how dumb he is. 

[southsider2k5]

34 minutes ago, ChiSox1917 said:

Should Minnesota be forced to change the name of their football team that portrays nordic people of the past as warrior driven vikings, when in reality many were peaceful farmers?  How is that portrayal of a people any different than portraying Indians as great warriors? Do you think cleveland picked that name to demean natives? 
 

I dont care what hypersensitive, constantly offended people say or think. I cant imagine living life constantly worrying about that. Seems like an awful life. You act like all native americans are offended by the name, but even with the more offensive redskins name at most half were.  

It seems like a way better life than reflexively jumping to defend terminology soaked in ignorance, racisms, and genocide.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

9 minutes ago, ChiSox1917 said:

Is this serious? Do you think youre being clever?

what whataboutism did i bring up? The poster i responded to alleged that whites, but not other races, have been committing atrocites since the beginning of mankind. Do you agree with that statement?

The poster then used that argument, and my race, in an attempt to dismiss my opinions as if they were less valid than his. I think i might be offended if i cared what ray thought, but now i just find it funny how dumb he is. 

Where did I say that?

And please spare me your sob story; it's so hard being a white man in America and this world, amirite? 

You realize I'm about as pastey and white as is humanly possible, right champ?

You brought up slavery; this is where the American education system has failed. The institution of slavery in the USA was arguably the most hienous implementation of slavery in the history of studied mankind, and also the latest legalization of it in the developed world. Additionally, we committed mass genocide against Native American's in which now we celebrate via Thanksgiving, yay! I have to go get some work done, so you can be spared anymore responses from me for a while, but I hope you have a deep enough bathtub to catch all your pity, poor white guy, tears.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[NWINFan]

I know our society is pretty sensitive and political correction can go too far. However, if a portion of the population feels hurt about something and all we have to do is change our language a little bit, I don't see the big deal. Baseball will still be in Cleveland. And no one is asking me to change my name.

The truth is we had often used language to demean people and create stereotypes. If we have less of that, we will be better off. I used to work in the rehabilitation field dealing with people with disabilities. Not disabled people. People with disabilities which is not hard to say. That certainly beats acting like a president who cruelly made fun of a person with disabilities. A person who was entitled to his dignity.

[ChiSox1917]

10 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Let me help you with this word.

Inadvertent means to unintentionally do something. Like when my mother asked the woman at the dentist office how far along she was in her pregnancy when she wasn't pregnant; that is inadvertently offensive. If my mom then went back to the dentists office every time after that and continued to ask that question, it's no longer inadvertent. So, when they made the Indians name they were likely inadvertently offending people. After being told repeatedly that it is offensive to them, if they continued to refer to themselves as Indians, it now becomes deliberately offensive. So if you truly don't want to deliberately offend people, as you are claiming in this thread, then why do you keep posting in defiance?

Thanks for coming to my TedTalk.

Except its not that simple. This isnt something being directed at an individual but towards a group of people. Many of which, if not the majority, feel honored and proud of sports teams using their imagery.  This isnt some universal, all native americans are offended by the cleveland name. By changing the name you appease one group of natives while the other group loses something they took pride in. Why is one groups opinions more important than the other? 
 

And remember, both those studies were about the redskins name - which definitely has a racial component to it. “Indians” is innocuous. Its the equivalent to vikings, or irish. 

[ChiSox1917]

9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

It seems like a way better life than reflexively jumping to defend terminology soaked in ignorance, racisms, and genocide.

“Indians”?

[ChiSox1917]

4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Where did I say that?

And please spare me your sob story; it's so hard being a white man in America and this world, amirite? 

You realize I'm about as pastey and white as is humanly possible, right champ?

You brought up slavery; this is where the American education system has failed. The institution of slavery in the USA was arguably the most hienous implementation of slavery in the history of studied mankind, and also the latest legalization of it in the developed world. Additionally, we committed mass genocide against Native American's in which now we celebrate via Thanksgiving, yay! I have to go get some work done, so you can be spared anymore responses from me for a while, but I hope you have a deep enough bathtub to catch all your pity, poor white guy, tears.

You really need a broader world history perspective if you believe this

[southsider2k5]

Just now, ChiSox1917 said:

“Indians”?

Since apparently you only learned about the Indians through mascots as you claimed earlier, yes.  Indians is a term stepped in all three of those things.  A geocidal and racist campaign was conducted against the natives of North America over a period of centuries, which continues to this day.  We stripped them of their own cultural, national, and native identities  and instead labeled them as the European pejorative "Indian", which itself is rooted in the Columbus misidentification of North America as India.  There are still educational efforts to this day to deny the teaching of tribal history, culture, and languages in Tribal schools.  We don't identify them correctly, and have instead assigned them our own European identity.

[DirtySox]

39 minutes ago, Sleepy Harold said:

Man, this thread has some taeks.

At the bare minimum it's helped me identify which posters I can safely add to the ignore list.

[Jack Parkman]

14 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Since apparently you only learned about the Indians through mascots as you claimed earlier, yes.  Indians is a term stepped in all three of those things.  A geocidal and racist campaign was conducted against the natives of North America over a period of centuries, which continues to this day.  We stripped them of their own cultural, national, and native identities  and instead labeled them as the European pejorative "Indian", which itself is rooted in the Columbus misidentification of North America as India.  There are still educational efforts to this day to deny the teaching of tribal history, culture, and languages in Tribal schools.  We don't identify them correctly, and have instead assigned them our own European identity.

There's no use talking to these people. They're going to believe in their persecution complex until they have their own "come to Jesus" moment. Until then, it's better to let them go to their own safe spaces to discuss this stuff so they can act like the petulant children that they are. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[ChiSox1917]

47 minutes ago, Texsox said:

So once you know you are offending someone you should continue to do so? I'm not certain that is the polite and well mannered thing to do. At least not in my social circles. 

To an individual, no you stop. Or at least try to be considerate - although with some people thats not possible.

however like i said above, this is a bit more complicated. This is a team name that reflects a group of people. Those people have opinions ranging from being offended by the use of the name to being proud of its usage. You cannot appease both groups and trying to do so only puts one groups opinions as superior to the others which isn’t right. 
 

and also, the elimination of native american mascots will have the opposite affect on society long term. Yeah maybe there will be a short term look at bringing native american culture and their history to light, but it wont last long. the forced removal of native ameican imagery in sports will ultimately lead to the erasure of indigineous culture from mainstream society
 

Ill use illinois as an example. The school is considering changing their mascot to the kingfisher. They are still the illini, but have not used the chief symbolism for about 15 years now.  When kids used to get in they would be introduced to the history of the illiniwek confederation. These days they dont. While the chief was never a real person and was more of a symbol, it still created a continuation and recognition of the illiniwek. It was something the student body rallied around and honored. It was never demeaned or ridiculed or presented in anything other than a positive light. Now future generations will have no knowledge of the illiniwek confederation, and instead will bond over a stupid looking bird.

Edited December 14, 2020 by ChiSox1917

[KrankinSox]

The Cleveland Ted Williams' Frozen Wangs

[South Side Hit Men]

The Atlanta Baseball Team and their racist ritual enacted under Ted Turner and Jane Fonda’s ownership reign needs to be axed next.

The Chicago Hockey team must also change its team name and racist merchandising.

Teams will continue to fight this because they make millions merchandising these racist caricatures, and fear their Karen fan base would pitch a hissy fit, and dare I say it, take a knee in protest.

 

[ChiSox1917]

22 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Since apparently you only learned about the Indians through mascots as you claimed earlier, yes.  Indians is a term stepped in all three of those things.  A geocidal and racist campaign was conducted against the natives of North America over a period of centuries, which continues to this day.  We stripped them of their own cultural, national, and native identities  and instead labeled them as the European pejorative "Indian", which itself is rooted in the Columbus misidentification of North America as India.  There are still educational efforts to this day to deny the teaching of tribal history, culture, and languages in Tribal schools.  We don't identify them correctly, and have instead assigned them our own European identity.

I mean i know reading comprehension isnt your strong suit, but where did i ever claim that didnt happen or was ok? although id argue genocide is probably a stretch, but racially motivated forced removal is definitely true. 

You do realize a lot of natives refer to themselves as “indians” right?  Hell the majority prefer being called american indian over other terms. What does it matter that the term was european? In that context, should we call them something other than native americans too since we assigned a european identity to the continent the natives were on?  

[The Grinder]

The political police strike again! They will always be the Indians to me. As will the Redskins. When will our sacred Blackhawks feel the pain next??

Good God what is this world becoming?

[Quin]

4 minutes ago, The Grinder said:

The political police strike again! They will always be the Indians to me. As will the Redskins. When will our sacred Blackhawks feel the pain next??

Good God what is this world becoming?

So, you hate capitalism?

[southsider2k5]

9 minutes ago, ChiSox1917 said:

I mean i know reading comprehension isnt your strong suit, but where did i ever claim that didnt happen or was ok? although id argue genocide is probably a stretch, but racially motivated forced removal is definitely true. 

You do realize a lot of natives refer to themselves as “indians” right?  Hell the majority prefer being called american indian over other terms. What does it matter that the term was european? In that context, should we call them something other than native americans too since we assigned a european identity to the continent the natives were on?  

Uh, duh, yes.  We should identify them by their OWN tribal and national identities.  They aren't Indians or native Americans first.  They are Pottawatomie, they are Iroquois, they are Hopi, they are Creeks,  etc.  This goes to EXACTLY what I am talking about when I talk about stripping them of their own identities and branding them in our own image.

And hell yes, this was a genocide.  It was organized and government sanctioned killings and removals repeated many times over centuries of time, and a lot of the more subtle policies are still in place to this day.

[35thstreetswarm]

1 hour ago, The Grinder said:

The political police strike again! They will always be the Indians to me. As will the Redskins. When will our sacred Blackhawks feel the pain next??

Good God what is this world becoming?

One that is rapidly leaving you behind.

[Sleepy Harold]

 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

9 minutes ago, Sleepy Harold said:

 

So they're not the Indians anymore, but are the Indians.. 

[Sleepy Harold]

 

[Angel Hernandez]

Up next

Blackhawks, Braves, Chiefs, Seminoles, Rajin Cajuns ect.

?

Edited December 14, 2020 by Angel Hernandez

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, The Grinder said:

The political police strike again! They will always be the Indians to me. As will the Redskins. When will our sacred Blackhawks feel the pain next??

Good God what is this world becoming?

Karen, Please!

 

 

[chetkincaid]

5 minutes ago, Angel Hernandez said:

Up next

Braves, Chiefs, Seminoles, Rajin Cajuns ect.

I honestly hope the Braves, Chiefs and Blackhawks follow suit. I’d love to get some new gear with a Black Hawk on it.