Owners would like to delay season until vaccine

[CentralChamps21]

2 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Sucks you lost a mother in law. But, how does his statement make him a jackass?  

Jackass may be too strong a term, but it's very insensitive, and it's also a false equivalency. Fried foods kill people the people who are eating them, they aren't killing people because the person eating them is coming into close contact with others and not wearing a mask.

[mac9001]

14 hours ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Why can other sports do just fine, but mlb can not? 

I think in part the MLB relies on gate revenues a lot more than say the NFL or NBA. The TV deals just aren't as lucrative for baseball teams. In addition the NBA and NFL have set revenue targets the players take home. There's already a baseline if revenue comes in significantly under expectations that players are only entitled to a set percentage.  That's clearly where the MLB owners want to go with this, if the players agree to lets say 50% of baseball related revenue (in the event of no fans, this would equate to significant player salary reductions) I'm sure the owners would be pushing to play each and every game. 

I don't see games being played until the owners have a set revenue split agreement with the players union. There's too much financial risk for the owners to proceed with a season until they have fully quantified their salary risk.  I think this partly goes beyond COVID, the MLB owners have seen the other sports leagues pull this off and they're probably ready to mark their line in the sand and hold out or threaten to reduce the game count until the players fold.  

[bmags]

Just now, mac9001 said:

I think in part the MLB relies on gate revenues a lot more than say the NFL or NBA. The TV deals just aren't as lucrative for baseball teams. In addition the NBA and NFL have set revenue targets the players take home. There's already a baseline if revenue comes in significantly under expectations that players are only entitled to a set percentage.  That's clearly where the MLB owners want to go with this, if the players agree to lets say 50% of baseball related revenue (in the event of no fans, this would equate to significant player salary reductions) I'm sure the owners would be pushing to play each and every game. 

I don't see games being played until the owners have a set revenue split agreement with the players union. There's too much financial risk for the owners to proceed with a season until they have fully quantified their salary risk.  I think this partly goes beyond COVID, the MLB owners have seen the other sports leagues pull this off and they're probably ready to mark their line in the sand and hold out or threaten to reduce the game count until the players fold.  

Yes.

With the MLB on a 25 year run of relative CBA peace, it's hard to say its set up is worse than NFL and NBA or NHL that have had a lot more cba confrontations.

However, the NBA/NFL % of revenue model specifically helped during the pandemic as there was no gap of trust in what was being made.

But, yes in addition they had better revenue streams.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

25 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

Jackass may be too strong a term, but it's very insensitive, and it's also a false equivalency. Fried foods kill people the people who are eating them, they aren't killing people because the person eating them is coming into close contact with others and not wearing a mask.

Yeah, there's many arguments for both sides, certainly.

[bighurt574]

Attendance is weak in April anyway.  Start on time and hopefully there's a critical mass of folks vaccinated by the summer.  

[Ducksnort]

1 hour ago, bighurt574 said:

Attendance is weak in April anyway.  Start on time and hopefully there's a critical mass of folks vaccinated by the summer.  

Honestly kind of what I was thinking. Baseball in Chicago is good for Opening Day, and then about the 2nd or 3rd week of May through September (and probably 1st or 2nd week of October if we ever made it that far)

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 hours ago, mac9001 said:

I think in part the MLB relies on gate revenues a lot more than say the NFL or NBA. The TV deals just aren't as lucrative for baseball teams. In addition the NBA and NFL have set revenue targets the players take home. There's already a baseline if revenue comes in significantly under expectations that players are only entitled to a set percentage.  That's clearly where the MLB owners want to go with this, if the players agree to lets say 50% of baseball related revenue (in the event of no fans, this would equate to significant player salary reductions) I'm sure the owners would be pushing to play each and every game. 

I don't see games being played until the owners have a set revenue split agreement with the players union. There's too much financial risk for the owners to proceed with a season until they have fully quantified their salary risk.  I think this partly goes beyond COVID, the MLB owners have seen the other sports leagues pull this off and they're probably ready to mark their line in the sand and hold out or threaten to reduce the game count until the players fold.  

What is the evidence to support this?

Local baseball TV contracts bring in more money than local NBA TV contracts. 

And average MLB team has an average revenue of 330 million dollars (2018). The average revenue generated per team in NBA is 291 million (2018). 

[Balta1701]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

What is the evidence to support this?

Local baseball TV contracts bring in more money than local NBA TV contracts. 

And average MLB team has an average revenue of 330 million dollars (2018). The average revenue generated per team in NBA is 291 million (2018). 

So the average MLB team has 2x as many home games and only brings in 14% more revenue?

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

11 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

So the average MLB team has 2x as many home games and only brings in 14% more revenue?

Sure, but the average payroll between the two leagues is near identical so it's not like teams are taking on substantial more risk with those extra games:

$130 million (NBA)
$137 million (MLB)

Teams outsources concessions to contracts - in which there is no risk of loss for the team; just lost profits during the pandemic.

Also, the average NBA ticket price is $51 while the average MLB ticket price is $34. So while the average gate revenue is certainly different, when you add the 40 million in additional TV revenue you end up with nearly the same revenue stream.

AVG attendance MLB Game: 28,317 ($77,985,018)

AVG attendance NBA game: 17,750 ($37,115,250)

Edited December 16, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[hogan873]

Apparently, all managers were told by Manfred that they hope to start the season on time and play 162 games.  That may be just him saying "plan for this" while expecting a delay anyway.

Anyway, "hope" doesn't mean much.  How's the saying go?  Hope in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first.

[ptatc]

16 minutes ago, hogan873 said:

Apparently, all managers were told by Manfred that they hope to start the season on time and play 162 games.  That may be just him saying "plan for this" while expecting a delay anyway.

Anyway, "hope" doesn't mean much.  How's the saying go?  Hope in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first.

Awfully negative. How about hope for the best and plan for the worst.

[hogan873]

20 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Awfully negative. How about hope for the best and plan for the worst.

Definitely sounds more positive.

[mac9001]

6 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

What is the evidence to support this?

Local baseball TV contracts bring in more money than local NBA TV contracts. 

And average MLB team has an average revenue of 330 million dollars (2018). The average revenue generated per team in NBA is 291 million (2018). 

Not going to try and break down nation vs local revenue. But just about everything google spits back shows the NBA crushes baseball in TV revenue. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1120170/broadcasting-rights-sports-by-league/

 

[caulfield12]

22 minutes ago, mac9001 said:

Not going to try and break down nation vs local revenue. But just about everything google spits back shows the NBA crushes baseball in TV revenue. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1120170/broadcasting-rights-sports-by-league/

 

But that doesn't take into account the regional sports networks for MLB, with the Dodgers' $2+ billion deal from nearly a decade now being the prime example.

It also doesn't take into account MLB Advanced Media/BAM Tech, MLB.TV, etc.

Yes, if you look at the Big 4 networks (ABC in this case), ESPN, FS1, TBS/TNT, etc., the NBA definitely wins.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

26 minutes ago, mac9001 said:

Not going to try and break down nation vs local revenue. But just about everything google spits back shows the NBA crushes baseball in TV revenue. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1120170/broadcasting-rights-sports-by-league/

 

This is national TV revenue. Baseball is driven by local TV revenue more than any other sport. 

The 2nd biggest local deal in the nba pays the rockets 45 million. The bulls deal is worth 25 million. Even when you add the extra 50 million to the bulls from the national deal they're still short nearly 50 million from the sox. 

The white sox make 120 million a year in local tv revenue. 

[Dominikk85]

15 hours ago, bmags said:

Yes.

With the MLB on a 25 year run of relative CBA peace, it's hard to say its set up is worse than NFL and NBA or NHL that have had a lot more cba confrontations.

However, the NBA/NFL % of revenue model specifically helped during the pandemic as there was no gap of trust in what was being made.

But, yes in addition they had better revenue streams.

NBA also had the advantage that more than half of the season was over at the time of the lockdown and thus a lot of gate revenue already was in the books.

Also as it was said nba has smaller audiences and a larger percentage made on TV.

Mlb has the disadvantage that they mostly have local cable deals and local viewership while for example nfl gets watched all over the country in national tv.

[bmags]

2 hours ago, Dominikk85 said:

NBA also had the advantage that more than half of the season was over at the time of the lockdown and thus a lot of gate revenue already was in the books.

Also as it was said nba has smaller audiences and a larger percentage made on TV.

Mlb has the disadvantage that they mostly have local cable deals and local viewership while for example nfl gets watched all over the country in national tv.

The NBA just re-started though and again didn't have problems and does not have fans now.

[Kyyle23]

19 hours ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Yeah, there's many arguments for both sides, certainly.

Arguments for both sides of what

[Dick Allen]

3 hours ago, bmags said:

The NBA just re-started though and again didn't have problems and does not have fans now.

Yes, but they didn't play an entire season of no fans. And they aren't playing 82 games.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Dick Allen

[ChiSox1917]

They just did a condensed 60 game schedule with pretty minor issues.  This is absolutely ridiculous and public figures pushing this fear mongering should be ashamed of themselves

[Sleepy Harold]

3 minutes ago, ChiSox1917 said:

They just did a condensed 60 game schedule with pretty minor issues.  This is absolutely ridiculous and public figures pushing this fear mongering should be ashamed of themselves

*The Marlins and Cardinals have entered the chat*

[ChiSox1917]

1 minute ago, Sleepy Harold said:

*The Marlins and Cardinals have entered the chat*

The marlins played a full 60 games and the cardinals played 58.  

[Sleepy Harold]

50 minutes ago, ChiSox1917 said:

The marlins played a full 60 games and the cardinals played 58.  

The Marlins had more than half of their roster test positive and the Cardinals had a tad under half the roster. They were able to make up the games due to all the double-headers that they played (Marlins played 7 [a tick under 25% of games played] and the Cards played 11 [more than 1/3 of games played]. The schedule was designed and rules were altered in case an outbreak occurred, which it did. They got through it, but I wouldn't necessarily label it as minor issues. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

29 minutes ago, Sleepy Harold said:

The Marlins had more than half of their roster test positive and the Cardinals had a tad under half the roster. They were able to make up the games due to all the double-headers that they played (Marlins played 7 [a tick under 25% of games played] and the Cards played 11 [more than 1/3 of games played]. The schedule was designed and rules were altered in case an outbreak occurred, which it did. They got through it, but I wouldn't necessarily label it as minor issues. 

Both teams also violated the protocols that were in place. 

[RagahRagah]

1 hour ago, ChiSox1917 said:

They just did a condensed 60 game schedule with pretty minor issues.  This is absolutely ridiculous and public figures pushing this fear mongering should be ashamed of themselves

You should legit change your username to Boomer.