Jack Parkman Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: They're not running 6 starters with Giolito, Lynn and Keuchel.. They need to go every 5th day. Probably not. It looks like it will be a normal rotation with Lopez/Rodon/Kopech/Crochet all piggybacking off of each other in the 5th spot based on availability. It's up to La Russa to make sure Kopech and Crochet get their innings. Edited February 19, 2021 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 7 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Probably not. It looks like it will be a normal rotation with Lopez/Rodon/Kopech/Crochet all piggybacking off of each other in the 5th spot based on availability. It's up to La Russa to make sure Kopech and Crochet get their innings. No it's not. It was up to the front office. And they'll likely fail them. It's stupid to have them in the MLB bullpen for an entire year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 (edited) From the sounds of it, Kopech will definitely be in the bullpen. It makes a ton of sense, especially if you look at the emotional health side of things. Michael seems to have had immaturity issues that he admittted and worked on with the time off. Good for him in the long term and the team has seemed to support him He needs to have some major league success rather than working in Charlotte. Being around and learning from solid role models both on and off the field. The veteran pitchers he can also learn from while building up innings should help him long and short term. Having him in the bullpen with a slow build up of innings makes it more likely he can contribute in Sept. and October. White Sox Podcast Edited February 21, 2021 by beck72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michelangelosmonkey Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 On 2/19/2021 at 9:19 AM, Squirmin' for Yermin said: No it's not. It was up to the front office. And they'll likely fail them. It's stupid to have them in the MLB bullpen for an entire year. Stupid like Tampa Bay does it? Seems like a fifth starter being a reliever game is an intriguing concept...how does Kopech and Crochett get stretched out like a starter? 3 innings by each over 30 starts would likely be about 80 innings (some missed starts or short outings). And who wouldn't want tickets to those games? 100 mph from the left for three and 100 from the right for three? That would be so much fun. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCommish Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 22 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said: Stupid like Tampa Bay does it? Seems like a fifth starter being a reliever game is an intriguing concept...how does Kopech and Crochett get stretched out like a starter? 3 innings by each over 30 starts would likely be about 80 innings (some missed starts or short outings). And who wouldn't want tickets to those games? 100 mph from the left for three and 100 from the right for three? That would be so much fun. That would be very fun to watch, the problem would be that would put 6 pitchers in a starting rotation as far as being able to pitch between starts. So essentially it takes 1 guy out of the bullpen rotation. I think Crochet would be more valuable as a reliever that could pitch 2-3 times a week rather than just 1 3 inning stint. I think the same thing for Kopech. If we have both of them going 2 innings per outing in relief, you could get them at least 4 innings per week. Then use Rodon/Lopez/etc for the 5th starter spot. Skipping that spot when days off warrant it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 (edited) I really do not like the idea of starting the year with Kopech in the bullpen. Get that extra year of team control back by starting him down in AAA and slowly ramping up. I’m definitely worried we’re going to do short-term focused things with Kopech & Crochet to appease La Russa that end up shortening the window. Edited February 21, 2021 by Chicago White Sox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: I really do not like the idea of starting the year with Kopech in the bullpen. Get that extra year of team control back by starting him down in AAA and slowly ramping up. I’m definitely worried we’re going to do short-term focused things with Kopech & Crochet to appease La Russa that end up shortening the window. I think we're all concerned about that but there is talk around baseball that a lot of teams are going to go to 6 man rotations/bullpen days to manage the innings of all starters coming off of the short season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michelangelosmonkey Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 4 hours ago, TheCommish said: That would be very fun to watch, the problem would be that would put 6 pitchers in a starting rotation as far as being able to pitch between starts. So essentially it takes 1 guy out of the bullpen rotation. I think Crochet would be more valuable as a reliever that could pitch 2-3 times a week rather than just 1 3 inning stint. I think the same thing for Kopech. If we have both of them going 2 innings per outing in relief, you could get them at least 4 innings per week. Then use Rodon/Lopez/etc for the 5th starter spot. Skipping that spot when days off warrant it. I'm not sure why the 6 pitchers in the rotation would be a bad thing. I think the bullpen is SO good you don't need Crochett/Kopech in it...or rather you treat them like the 5th starter and the long reliever...except they ONLY pitch on that fifth day. It's a bit unusual but you get to stretch each of them out...aim for each of them to become a regular starter in 2022...they learn the habits of being a starter without the arm strain of a heavy load. I think they may delay this until May to get the additional year from Kopech and it's that window where Rodon and Reylo try to prove they are worth something. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted February 21, 2021 Author Share Posted February 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said: I'm not sure why the 6 pitchers in the rotation would be a bad thing. I think the bullpen is SO good you don't need Crochett/Kopech in it...or rather you treat them like the 5th starter and the long reliever...except they ONLY pitch on that fifth day. It's a bit unusual but you get to stretch each of them out...aim for each of them to become a regular starter in 2022...they learn the habits of being a starter without the arm strain of a heavy load. I think they may delay this until May to get the additional year from Kopech and it's that window where Rodon and Reylo try to prove they are worth something. Completely agree. I share these same thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cashman Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 5 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: I really do not like the idea of starting the year with Kopech in the bullpen. Get that extra year of team control back by starting him down in AAA and slowly ramping up. I’m definitely worried we’re going to do short-term focused things with Kopech & Crochet to appease La Russa that end up shortening the window. You have to think short term. The goal is the WS, if that is obtained, I think at that point you can think long term. At this point, the extra year on Kopech doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Cashman said: You have to think short term. The goal is the WS, if that is obtained, I think at that point you can think long term. At this point, the extra year on Kopech doesn't matter. I just don’t think 20 to 30 additional innings out of the bullpen with the Sox warrants giving up an extra year of team control. We already have a deep bullpen and there are six off-days in the first 40 games. I really don’t think having a limited Kopech in April & May materially changes our chances of winning a World Series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejoesox Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 coming off a 60 game season, I'd be surprised based on what I've seen on here and twitter that most teams aren't putting their starters on some form of innings limit/6 man rotations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 Six man rotations just don’t seem feasible to me, especially not early in the season with so many off days. Just limit guys to five or six innings max in April & May. We have a deep enough bullpen to cover three or four innings a night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 Just now, Chicago White Sox said: Six man rotations just don’t seem feasible to me, especially not early in the season with so many off days. Just limit guys to five or six innings max in April & May. We have a deep enough bullpen to cover three or four innings a night. Yeah, but it's one thing when only one guy in your rotation is on an innings limit. It's another when it's every pitcher in baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Yeah, but it's one thing when only one guy in your rotation is on an innings limit. It's another when it's every pitcher in baseball. Then have multiple guys who can go multiple innings in the pen. Use a sixth starter here and there to give guys an extra day of rest. But I really don’t want our starters pitching on six days rest in April & May as their normal routine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Then have multiple guys who can go multiple innings in the pen. Use a sixth starter here and there to give guys an extra day of rest. But I really don’t want our starters pitching on six days rest in April & May as their normal routine. Do you want to burn out your Bullpen by June? Remember, they aren't used to pitching 70 innings either. This is not your normal 162 game season. Hendriks pitched 25 innings in 2020. Edited February 21, 2021 by Jack Parkman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 43 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Do you want to burn out your Bullpen by June? Remember, they aren't used to pitching 70 innings either. This is not your normal 162 game season. Hendriks pitched 25 innings in 2020. Let’s not act as if every pitcher is going to pitch half as many innings as they did in 2019. Yes, we need to be careful and manage workloads, but the reality is there are +1,400 innings to fill and all guys will be taking on massive YoY increases to fill them. Pitchers are creatures of habit and pitching on six days of rest will likely lead to poor results IMO. There are more creative ways to fill innings that would hopefully be more effective. Like I said previously, there are seven off-days across our first 44 games plus the likelihood of a few rainouts. Go five man rotation and give each starter five or six innings a start max (less where game situation permits). Let Lopez & Crochet go three innings every five days or so. The other six relievers should be able to pick up two or three innings a week. If need be, ride someone like Jimmy Cordero hard for a month or so until Fry & Kopech are ready. There are creative ways to fill all these innings without killing guys or going with an actual six man rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 32 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Let’s not act as if every pitcher is going to pitch half as many innings as they did in 2019. Yes, we need to be careful and manage workloads, but the reality is there are +1,400 innings to fill and all guys will be taking on massive YoY increases to fill them. Pitchers are creatures of habit and pitching on six days of rest will likely lead to poor results IMO. There are more creative ways to fill innings that would hopefully be more effective. Like I said previously, there are seven off-days across our first 44 games plus the likelihood of a few rainouts. Go five man rotation and give each starter five or six innings a start max (less where game situation permits). Let Lopez & Crochet go three innings every five days or so. The other six relievers should be able to pick up two or three innings a week. If need be, ride someone like Jimmy Cordero hard for a month or so until Fry & Kopech are ready. There are creative ways to fill all these innings without killing guys or going with an actual six man rotation. No, that's not what I said but it wouldn't surprise me at all if everyone was 20-40 innings below their normal average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 15 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: No, that's not what I said but it wouldn't surprise me at all if everyone was 20-40 innings below their normal average. How many innings are you expecting out of Giolito, Lynn, Keuchel, & Cease next year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: How many innings are you expecting out of Giolito, Lynn, Keuchel, & Cease next year? About 150-160 out of the established starters and maybe 120 from Cease. The Sox know this which is why they're ok with their plan for Kopech/Crochet. The difference in running a 6 man rotation vs a 5 man rotation is 5 starts over the course of a season. Edited February 22, 2021 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: About 150-160 out of the established starters and maybe 120 from Cease. The Sox know this which is why they're ok with their plan for Kopech/Crochet. The difference in running a 6 man rotation vs a 5 man rotation is 5 starts over the course of a season. Cease is going more than 120 innings if he’s healthy. He pitched 140 in 2019 and I fully expect that many if he makes 30+ starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 20 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: I really do not like the idea of starting the year with Kopech in the bullpen. Get that extra year of team control back by starting him down in AAA and slowly ramping up. I’m definitely worried we’re going to do short-term focused things with Kopech & Crochet to appease La Russa that end up shortening the window. I just don’t think it’s realistic to leave him down that long. They have 5 years of control. Getting another year would entail a June debut. They aren’t waiting that long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted February 22, 2021 Author Share Posted February 22, 2021 2 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: I just don’t think it’s realistic to leave him down that long. They have 5 years of control. Getting another year would entail a June debut. They aren’t waiting that long. Yeah, that is pushing it a bit. James, do you think he breaks camp with the Sox and is on the opening day roster? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 1 minute ago, SoxBlanco said: Yeah, that is pushing it a bit. James, do you think he breaks camp with the Sox and is on the opening day roster? Last week, I would've said no chance. Now I'm leaning towards him making the opening day roster. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 This may be its own topic, but should Giolito, Keuchel, and Lynn prepare for 33 starts and 215 innings, and let everyone else fill in the gaps? We know Lynn wants the ball. I’ve heard Giolito say he wants to make all of starts and go 200 innings because he threw throughout the shutdown. Personally, I’d probably think 31 starts and around 190 innings is good, but if the Big 3 wants to sack up like it’s a regular season, I’d be all for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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