2021 Plan for Kopech and Crochet

[SonofaRoache]

11 minutes ago, Fernando Tatis Jr said:

For the most part, teams don’t take their best rotation prospects and stack them in their MLB bullpen. I don’t get it. We don’t even need them. If you’ll pitch them out of the pen this year, then why not get them ready in the minors to start later in the season if bad things happen?

Because minors innings count as innings too. And these two can come in for starters that get pulled early and give you three innings here and there. The only reason it would make sense to send them to the minors is to get an extra year. 

[Balta1701]

18 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Because minors innings count as innings too. And these two can come in for starters that get pulled early and give you three innings here and there. The only reason it would make sense to send them to the minors is to get an extra year. 

[South Side Hit Men]

13 hours ago, raBBit said:

Personally I would start with Kopech in the minors but I am not going to be upset about having his arm in the pen. Our bullpen should be of the very best in the league. 

I like this plan if they stick with it. As long as they get to 100-120 with Kopech, and 80-100 with Crochet, they can be legitimate starters next year with reasonable innings management.

If they are healthy and top out at 70-80 to maximize the “NOW” Tony stated on the Score, than you are shortchanging the current and future window. 

Sale had to fight to the death to stop a permanent bullpen role, these two shouldn’t face a similar fate. I’m hopeful they stick with their stated plan, and not allow Tony’s today is the only day that matters to trump prudent development and long term needs of the club. It is not or should not be a 1-2 year window. 

[Harold's Leg Lift]

I don't agree with either decision but I can kinda see it with Kopech.  It's long past time they start getting something out of him and they can keep a closer eye on him if he's with the big club.  I still think he needs to log some innings in triple A to get at least some of whatever feel he had back but they're gonna throw him in the deep end and see what happens.  Starting Crochet in the big league bullpen is a travesty.  

I guess this also means Lopez starts in triple A and is the first man up.  Yikes

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I don't agree with either decision but I can kinda see it with Kopech.  It's long past time they start getting something out of him and they can keep a closer eye on him if he's with the big club.  I still think he needs to log some innings in triple A to get at least some of whatever feel he had back but they're gonna throw him in the deep end and see what happens.  Starting Crochet in the big league bullpen is a travesty.  

I guess this also means Lopez starts in triple A and is the first man up.  Yikes

Are they doing this to appease La Russa?

[raBBit]

21 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Are they doing this to appease La Russa?

I am not sure but La Russa has made comments he wants Crochet in the pen.

[raBBit]

While it's such a small concern, I wonder if the Sox use the fact that Jimmy Cordero is out of options to their advantage

Catchers (2): Grandal, Lucroy

Infield (5): Abreu, Madrigal, Moncada, TA, Garcia

Outfield (4): Eloy, Robert, Eaton, Engel

Starters (5): Gio, Keuchel, Lynn, Cease, Rodon

Relievers (6) : Hendriks, Bummer, Marshall, Heuer, Foster, Lopez

That's 22 "locks"

On the bat side, you need a DH and a bench player. Vaughn the favorite. Collins has a good shot. Mendick, Mercedes, Tim Beckham and Sheets all outside shots. 

On the arms side, you have Fry on the DL to start the year. Then Crochet, Kopech, Cordero for two spots. So seems like Crochet is kind of a lock with the Fry injury. They could theoretically hold down Kopech and go with Cordero or they'd lose him. 

[raBBit]

Also re: Crochet and the Fry injury, surprised Hunter Schryver didn't get an NRI. Sox seem to like him. Supposedly Sox were in on former Royal Tim Collins this offseason. He sat out 2020. There is a Getz connection there. Since I've heard that, Fry got hurt and there's been no addition to LHP. I don think it's a big issue depth wise given they Sox may have the two most dynamic LH relief options in the AL but cant ever have too much pitching. Especially when free.

[ChiSox59]

9 minutes ago, raBBit said:

Also re: Crochet and the Fry injury, surprised Hunter Schryver didn't get an NRI. Sox seem to like him. Supposedly Sox were in on former Royal Tim Collins this offseason. He sat out 2020. There is a Getz connection there. Since I've heard that, Fry got hurt and there's been no addition to LHP. I don think it's a big issue depth wise given they Sox may have the two most dynamic LH relief options in the AL but cant ever have too much pitching. Especially when free.

I've always liked Collins.  Bring him in!

I also don't want to lose Cordero, and I doubt the Sox do either.  He has a nice arm, and should be much more effective when used appropriately.  

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, raBBit said:

While it's such a small concern, I wonder if the Sox use the fact that Jimmy Cordero is out of options to their advantage

Catchers (2): Grandal, Lucroy

Infield (5): Abreu, Madrigal, Moncada, TA, Garcia

Outfield (4): Eloy, Robert, Eaton, Engel

Starters (5): Gio, Keuchel, Lynn, Cease, Rodon

Relievers (6) : Hendriks, Bummer, Marshall, Heuer, Foster, Lopez

That's 22 "locks"

On the bat side, you need a DH and a bench player. Vaughn the favorite. Collins has a good shot. Mendick, Mercedes, Tim Beckham and Sheets all outside shots. 

On the arms side, you have Fry on the DL to start the year. Then Crochet, Kopech, Cordero for two spots. So seems like Crochet is kind of a lock with the Fry injury. They could theoretically hold down Kopech and go with Cordero or they'd lose him. 

Beckham (PED Suspension) can't start the year with the White Sox and Mendick is also a lock. LuCroy vs. Collins is thee battle, though both could start the year if the Sox play service time games with Vaughn.

C Grandal, Lucroy IF Abreu, Anderson, Madrigal, Mendick, Moncada, Vaughn. OF Eaton, Engel, Garcia, Jimenez, Robert.

Pitching will be more fluid, with pitchers with options including Kopech and Crochet to float on/off the 26 man roster all season. I expect Cordero to be with the team all season when healthy, and that Lopez will start for the Sox, not come out of the bullpen beyond perhaps if a starter goes down or available as a long man for a doubleheader.

Edited March 1, 2021 by South Side Hit Men

[raBBit]

4 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Beckham (PED Suspension) can't start the year with the White Sox and Mendick is also a lock. LuCroy vs. Collins is thee battle, though both could start the year if the Sox play service time games with Vaughn.

 C Grandal, Lucroy IF Abreu, Anderson, Madrigal, Mendick, Moncada, Vaughn. OF Eaton, Engel, Garcia, Jimenez, Robert.

Pitching will be more fluid, with pitchers with options including Kopech and Crochet to float on/off the 26 man roster all season. I expect Cordero to be with the team all season when healthy, and that Lopez will start for the Sox, not come out of the bullpen beyond perhaps if a starter goes down or available as a long man for a doubleheader.

Totally forgot on Beckham good call there.

I do not find Mendick to be a lock in any way.

I don't think Lopez will start the year in the rotation but will probably make starts due to injuries, DH, extra rest, etc. Sox had him penciled in the pen at the start of the offseason. 

[roto]

On 2/28/2021 at 9:33 AM, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I don't agree with either decision but I can kinda see it with Kopech.  It's long past time they start getting something out of him and they can keep a closer eye on him if he's with the big club.  I still think he needs to log some innings in triple A to get at least some of whatever feel he had back but they're gonna throw him in the deep end and see what happens.  Starting Crochet in the big league bullpen is a travesty.  

I guess this also means Lopez starts in triple A and is the first man up.  Yikes

I'm with you on this.  Using Kopech as your long man out of Spring Training is idiotic.  He's been a starter his whole life and now you want to use him as a reliever?  Send him to Charlotte and use him as a regular starter until Cease or Rodon fails or he's just so good you can't not use him on the ML team.

As for Crochet, same as you stated (travesty) if you really want to get him young starter's innings this year.  Why would you stick him in the bullpen out of Spring Training if you think he's a starter on next year's team.  In my head, Kopech and Crochet are next year's Lynn and Rodon.  Injuries or ineffective starters could dictate otherwise but why not get these two some tandem starts in Charlotte while you've got so many off days in April and May and before the double headers start piling up.  You utilize Lopez and Flores as your R/L long men until they fail to  get the job done.

  I just don't see that many long man innings you need to cover for the first six weeks of the season. 

[South Side Hit Men]

40 minutes ago, roto said:

I'm with you on this.  Using Kopech as your long man out of Spring Training is idiotic.  He's been a starter his whole life and now you want to use him as a reliever?  Send him to Charlotte and use him as a regular starter until Cease or Rodon fails or he's just so good you can't not use him on the ML team.

As for Crochet, same as you stated (travesty) if you really want to get him young starter's innings this year.  Why would you stick him in the bullpen out of Spring Training if you think he's a starter on next year's team.  In my head, Kopech and Crochet are next year's Lynn and Rodon.  Injuries or ineffective starters could dictate otherwise but why not get these two some tandem starts in Charlotte while you've got so many off days in April and May and before the double headers start piling up.  You utilize Lopez and Flores as your R/L long men until they fail to  get the job done.

  I just don't see that many long man innings you need to cover for the first six weeks of the season. 

I'm waiting to see what happens. As long as they get their innings to allow both to start later this year or entering 2022, there are solid reasons for leaving to develop under Katz. 

However, if they finish healthy, but with 70-90 2021 innings due to "Win Today" trumping development, than Fuck/Fire La Russa, and Hahn for permitting it to happen.

200 inning starters >>>>> 60-80 inning relievers

[Kyyle23]

Hahn and LaRussa will not get fired for this organizational plan

[Rounding_Third]

If their Kopech plan goes off without a hitch, I think he'll get his allotted starts a little further into the season.  I'm very curious as to what his pitch/innings limit will be.  Everyone's got an opinion and it seems the consensus is around 120-130 innings.

With Crochet, I think the jury is still out with coaches as to what's the best future for him.  Reading & listening to some of the comments by Stone and others, It seems to me that this year's plan is pen only in order to better analyze him while still contributing.  At Tenn, he was used primarily as a reliever and his numbers as both SP & RP were mediocre and innings a little conservative.  I think the Sox staff is still trying to discover if he & his arm have the ability to endure starter's innings.  With no minors experience, I wouldn't be surprised they'll be very cautious and keep his innings well below 100.

[gusguyman]

From Fegan's (characteristically excellent) article on the game last night, Keuchel on Kopech (emphasis mine):

“Mike’s going to be a stopper for a reason,” said Keuchel. “Whenever we decide to move him back into the rotation, in a year or two, he’s going to be one of the best starters in the game as well.”

Who knows if Keuchel actually knows anything (and its interesting how often he seems to speak/speculate on front office decisions), but Dallas seems to think Kopech is in the bullpen for the whole year, and maybe two.

[Timmy U]

6 minutes ago, gusguyman said:

Who knows if Keuchel actually knows anything (and its interesting how often he seems to speak/speculate on front office decisions), but Dallas seems to think Kopech is in the bullpen for the whole year, and maybe two.

If Keuchel keeps pitching like last night, Kopech is going to be starting way ahead of schedule.

[Nokona]

I see we're going with the Mirror Haders.  

2+ innings of pure gas.  Love it.

[South Side Hit Men]

4 hours ago, gusguyman said:

From Fegan's (characteristically excellent) article on the game last night, Keuchel on Kopech (emphasis mine):

“Mike’s going to be a stopper for a reason,” said Keuchel. “Whenever we decide to move him back into the rotation, in a year or two, he’s going to be one of the best starters in the game as well.”

Who knows if Keuchel actually knows anything (and its interesting how often he seems to speak/speculate on front office decisions), but Dallas seems to think Kopech is in the bullpen for the whole year, and maybe two.

The more I hear Keuchel talk or see him pitch, the less I like him. What the hell has Dallas Keuchel have to do with that decision?

Then again, 99% of folks here use “we” incorrectly as well, except of course Hahn’s various burner accounts.

3 hours ago, Timmy U said:

If Keuchel keeps pitching like last night, Kopech is going to be starting way ahead of schedule.

Thank you.

[hi8is]

54 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

The more I hear Keuchel talk or see him pitch, the less I like him. What the hell has Dallas Keuchel have to do with that decision?

Then again, 99% of folks here use “we” incorrectly as well, except of course Hahn’s various burner accounts.

Thank you.

We talked your grievance over and find it unsubstantiated. 

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, hi8is said:

We talked your grievance over and find it unsubstantiated. 

This could actually be a correct use of the word, assuming multiple posters engaged in a discussion.

Will let multiple voices discussing this in a single poster's head slide, have a soft spot for Sybil.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

9 hours ago, gusguyman said:

From Fegan's (characteristically excellent) article on the game last night, Keuchel on Kopech (emphasis mine):

“Mike’s going to be a stopper for a reason,” said Keuchel. “Whenever we decide to move him back into the rotation, in a year or two, he’s going to be one of the best starters in the game as well.”

Who knows if Keuchel actually knows anything (and its interesting how often he seems to speak/speculate on front office decisions), but Dallas seems to think Kopech is in the bullpen for the whole year, and maybe two.

It looks like he's saying that in a year or 2 he'll be one of the best starters, not that he thinks they won't make him a starter for another year or 2.  As in, he could be a starter by mid-season and develop into one of the best starters in baseball within the next couple of years.  C'mon now.  I'm not too fond of him either, but let's at least comprend what he's saying.

[gusguyman]

12 hours ago, SleepyWhiteSox said:

It looks like he's saying that in a year or 2 he'll be one of the best starters, not that he thinks they won't make him a starter for another year or 2.  As in, he could be a starter by mid-season and develop into one of the best starters in baseball within the next couple of years.  C'mon now.  I'm not too fond of him either, but let's at least comprend what he's saying.

Ah that's definitely an interpretation I didn't think of! That said, grammatically I believe that would be written as:

Whenever we decide to move him back into the rotation, in a year or two he’s going to be one of the best starters in the game as well.

There would be one comma separating two clauses. In the way James transcribed it, the 'in a year or two' is a parenthetical expression, which could also be written:

Whenever we decide to move him back into the rotation-- in a year or two-- he’s going to be one of the best starters in the game as well.

The latter makes more clear that, as written, the sentence is saying that Kopech would be back to the rotation in a year or two. So I guess the question becomes did James transcribe it correctly, and that we won't know unless we get audio. Seems like it could go either way.

[chitownsportsfan]

Kopech looks amazing.  I don't know how you can keep him under 100 innings.  He looks like a guy that is going to replace Dylan in the rotation sometime around June 15th.

[ptatc]

9 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Kopech looks amazing.  I don't know how you can keep him under 100 innings.  He looks like a guy that is going to replace Dylan in the rotation sometime around June 15th.

For his health, I don't think you do that until August. If he continues 3 innings a week until then, He could have a few starts in September and into the playoffs. He doesn't impress me as a guy who is going to be more than a 5-6 inning starter anyway.