2021 NHL Thread

[Tony]

7 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

John Doe is going to be interviewed on TSN later and wants his identity revealed. Brave man

As Ace mentioned, I wonder if he is doing this because the report basically doxxed him. 

[bmags]

I've written a lot of stuff on this but not much more to say. Was listening to the score and they were saying how Bowman should have stood up and demanded action or stepping down.

To me, the worse part is no dramatic action like that was needed. Literally just caring a bit more...following up more with a "hey did you take care of that thing" would probably have worked. But he didn't really care. McDonough didn't really care. Quenneville didn't care. The trainer didn't really care. The HR person...hoo boy, did not give a crap.

I fully believe there was no cover up here, because that would have meant they thought there was something worth covering up. Instead they were just annoyed.

McDonough couldn't be more full of crap, but holy hell I hope that HR rep is not in that line of work anymore. 

[Dick Allen]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

I've written a lot of stuff on this but not much more to say. Was listening to the score and they were saying how Bowman should have stood up and demanded action or stepping down.

To me, the worse part is no dramatic action like that was needed. Literally just caring a bit more...following up more with a "hey did you take care of that thing" would probably have worked. But he didn't really care. McDonough didn't really care. Quenneville didn't care. The trainer didn't really care. The HR person...hoo boy, did not give a crap.

I fully believe there was no cover up here, because that would have meant they thought there was something worth covering up. Instead they were just annoyed.

McDonough couldn't be more full of crap, but holy hell I hope that HR rep is not in that line of work anymore. 

I am glad Stan is gone, but the reality for me is if this thing is the real reason, and he is being honest, he got screwed. Obviously he had been around a while, but he was a 1st year GM, and McCub told him he would take care of it. I don’t think many would have gone back to McCub later for an update, and to follow up on his following up. It could have been a career killer. As a manager, I get trained on this stuff yearly, and if I get a report, I am supposed to go to HR or my boss. If my boss told me they would handle it, I don’t really think up until this , I would have followed up, especially seeing a month later the guy is gone. It should have been right away. There should have been a trail so he couldn’t do it again, which he did to a minor. But to me, Stan was a naive middle manager who got burned by his old boss. He will learn from this. I know I have. It’s too bad someome had to be a victim. I hope some day he can somehow move on from it and lead a happy life.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Dick Allen

[Two-Gun Pete]

2 hours ago, Tony said:

As Ace mentioned, I wonder if he is doing this because the report basically doxxed him. 

Fair or unfair, I'm guess that this means that John Doe thinks his playing career is over. Rich team owners don't like it when some peasant speaks up for himself.

[Two-Gun Pete]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

I've written a lot of stuff on this but not much more to say. Was listening to the score and they were saying how Bowman should have stood up and demanded action or stepping down.

To me, the worse part is no dramatic action like that was needed. Literally just caring a bit more...following up more with a "hey did you take care of that thing" would probably have worked. But he didn't really care. McDonough didn't really care. Quenneville didn't care. The trainer didn't really care. The HR person...hoo boy, did not give a crap.

I fully believe there was no cover up here, because that would have meant they thought there was something worth covering up. Instead they were just annoyed.

McDonough couldn't be more full of crap, but holy hell I hope that HR rep is not in that line of work anymore. 

Given this issue, the Akim Aliu issue with the Ice Hogs coach, and a few other things, this organization isn't doing much to cover themselves in glory these days.

Now would be a good time to simply fire everyone, blow it all up, and rebuild the entirety of the organization.

[bmags]

33 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I am glad Stan is gone, but the reality for me is if this thing is the real reason, and he is being honest, he got screwed. Obviously he had been around a while, but he was a 1st year GM, and McCub told him he would take care of it. I don’t think many would have gone back to McCub later for an update, and to follow up on his following up. It could have been a career killer. As a manager, I get trained on this stuff yearly, and if I get a report, I am supposed to go to HR or my boss. If my boss told me they would handle it, I don’t really think up until this , I would have followed up, especially seeing a month later the guy is gone. It should have been right away. There should have been a trail so he couldn’t do it again, which he did to a minor. But to me, Stan was a naive middle manager who got burned by his old boss. He will learn from this. I know I have. It’s too bad someome had to be a victim. I hope some day he can somehow move on from it and lead a happy life.

Reading the report, I was most agnostic about Bowman, and I think you in general are right. But when you get to then end and realize this guy left the hawks with an ability to keep at it, all it took was him telling Scottie that this guy should never work again. 
 

Granted, that just pushes his abuse to other industries. 
 

If I’m Wirts though, I would basically ask all involve resign or be fired. No reason to keep them and be nuanced. There are too many people that could succeed at sports.

[Chicago White Sox]

46 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I am glad Stan is gone, but the reality for me is if this thing is the real reason, and he is being honest, he got screwed. Obviously he had been around a while, but he was a 1st year GM, and McCub told him he would take care of it. I don’t think many would have gone back to McCub later for an update, and to follow up on his following up. It could have been a career killer. As a manager, I get trained on this stuff yearly, and if I get a report, I am supposed to go to HR or my boss. If my boss told me they would handle it, I don’t really think up until this , I would have followed up, especially seeing a month later the guy is gone. It should have been right away. There should have been a trail so he couldn’t do it again, which he did to a minor. But to me, Stan was a naive middle manager who got burned by his old boss. He will learn from this. I know I have. It’s too bad someome had to be a victim. I hope some day he can somehow move on from it and lead a happy life.

To be clear, sexual assault <> sexual harassment and the fact that Aldrich wasn’t put on leave immediately after the meeting with McCub should have caused Bowman to follow-up.  The reality is he did the bare minimum because he also didn’t want the distraction at that time and he 100% deserves losing his job now.  If your direct report accused someone else at your office of sexual assault and you saw said guy running around a couple days later, I hope you wouldn’t be like “well I told my boss, I’m sure everything is fine”.

[bmags]

10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

To be clear, sexual assault <> sexual harassment and the fact that Aldrich wasn’t put on leave immediately after the meeting with McCub should have caused Bowman to follow-up.  The reality is he did the bare minimum because he also didn’t want the distraction at that time and he 100% deserves losing his job now.  If your direct report accused someone else at your office of sexual assault and you saw said guy running around a couple days later, I hope you wouldn’t be like “well I told my boss, I’m sure everything is fine”.

The thing that is hazy though is from what I read it’s not actually clear what was stated as happening in the meeting

[Chicago White Sox]

20 minutes ago, bmags said:

The thing that is hazy though is from what I read it’s not actually clear what was stated as happening in the meeting

I know this is an older story / not the formal report, but Paul Vincent recommended they go to the police and made this comment:

https://www.tsn.ca/blackhawks-refused-to-report-alleged-sex-abuse-of-players-to-police-source-1.1656229

Quote

On May 17, 2010, an off day and one day after the players shared their story with Vincent, Blackhawks management convened a meeting at the Marriott Hotel in San Jose at about 5 p.m., said the person who contacted TSN.

During that meeting, Vincent requested that the team report the alleged assault to Chicago police and asked his colleagues, “What would you do if this had happened to your son?” the person said. Vincent’s request was rejected, the person said.

Again, to me, it seems pretty clear that the alleged assault was communicated and under no circumstance should that not have been addressed immediately.  This isn’t some guy making a sexually suggestive comment, this a dude who was accused of sexual violence against an employee.  Whether McCub said he was going to do something, clearly he didn’t and that should have been apparent to everyone in know.  I’m not suggesting Bowman should go to jail, but the complete lack of compassion for a potential victim and willingness to allow a predator to continue to run rampant should certainly cost him his job.  Bowman does not deserve sympathy for doing the absolute bare minimum.  Just my opinion.

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Fair or unfair, I'm guess that this means that John Doe thinks his playing career is over. Rich team owners don't like it when some peasant speaks up for himself.

Yep, and must have just been a coincidence that they had HR personnel files when it was convenient to discredit one of the two people suing them (the other one wisely choose not to participate in this charade), but oops no file for Aldrich.

Sane with having emails at times, but none which would lead to the person ultimately responsible within the organization that was not mentioned a single, solitary instance.

Not sure how anyone gives this report credibility, when there are so many unanswered questions, and no information about what Rocky knew, when he knew it, what if anything he did about it. All evidence (emails from McDonough, HR files from Aldrich) which would document Wirtz involvement were unavailable, not a single question or statement was posed to Wirtz, at least as presented in the Wirtz funded investigation, and the Wirtz funded final report. Wouldn’t answer a single question at their sham press conference.

Bullshit, all of it.

 

[Dick Allen]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

To be clear, sexual assault <> sexual harassment and the fact that Aldrich wasn’t put on leave immediately after the meeting with McCub should have caused Bowman to follow-up.  The reality is he did the bare minimum because he also didn’t want the distraction at that time and he 100% deserves losing his job now.  If your direct report accused someone else at your office of sexual assault and you saw said guy running around a couple days later, I hope you wouldn’t be like “well I told my boss, I’m sure everything is fine”.

I get that, and you are right something like sexual assault you probably take as far up the flagpole as you can, but McCub was the guy. Chances are no matter what Bowman does short of leaking it to the press,  it gets quashed, and then McCain probably does to Stan's career Aldrich threatened for Beachs.  And he had only heard one side. There was a chance it didn't go down as he heard. There were 3 people initially in the room the night  this occurred,  and they have 3 different versions about how things went. Throw the offenders out now for sure. there is no question he was lying. But the woman and Beachs stories are a bit different.  Of course it's 11 years . 

[Dick Allen]

4 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Yep, and must have just been a coincidence that they had HR personnel files when it was convenient to discredit one of the two people suing them (the other one wisely choose not to participate in this charade), but oops no file for Aldrich.

Sane with having emails at times, but none which would lead to the person ultimately responsible within the organization that was not mentioned a single, solitary instance.

Not sure how anyone gives this report credibility, when there are so many unanswered questions, and no information about what Rocky knew, when he knew it, what if anything he did about it. All evidence (emails from McDonough, HR files from Aldrich) which would document Wirtz involvement were unavailable, not a single question or statement was posed to Wirtz, at least as presented in the Wirtz funded investigation, and the Wirtz funded final report. Wouldn’t answer a single question at their sham press conference.

Bullshit, all of it.

 

Beach feels relief and vindication.  A report paid for by Rocky does admittedly leave some questions, and some strange circumstances,  but if it makes the victim feel better, there is some good in it.

[South Side Hit Men]

4 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Beach feels relief and vindication.  A report paid for by Rocky does admittedly leave some questions, and some strange circumstances,  but if it makes the victim feel better, there is some good in it.

Will never buy another ticket, or any liquor these people distribute (here or in Vegas).

Also, stopped watching the rest of the NHL since they failed to conduct an independent investigation and left this family to continue as if nothing happened. 

 

[Two-Gun Pete]

7 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Will never buy another ticket, or any liquor these people distribute (here or in Vegas).

Also, stopped watching the rest of the NHL since they failed to conduct an independent investigation and left this family to continue as if nothing happened. 

 

That'll be tough, since the state of IL (and other states) have handed the Wirtz family a virtual monopoly in distributing booze.

Hell, AFAIK, restaurants arr required to pay their booze suppliers before they pay their other suppliers. 

[Kyyle23]

5 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

That'll be tough, since the state of IL (and other states) have handed the Wirtz family a virtual monopoly in distributing booze.

Hell, AFAIK, restaurants arr required to pay their booze suppliers before they pay their other suppliers. 

Yea if you are refusing Wirtz liquor in the greater Chicagoland area, you have chosen sobriety

[Bananarchy]

Does this ruin the past ten years for anyone else? I'm trying to be level headed but this is a lot.

[HOFHurt35]

15 minutes ago, Vacheron said:

Does this ruin the past ten years for anyone else? I'm trying to be level headed but this is a lot.

When I read the investigation report, it definitely does.  

[Bananarchy]

3 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

When I read the investigation report, it definitely does.  

I've always liked the Stars and the Blackhawks but this is just too much. The crimes are bad enough but also the

• Mismanagement from executives 
• Straight of lying from Joel Quenneville and Toews, Kane
• The homophobic and hurtful comments from the team at the time of the event

No one comes out of this without a clear black mark. I almost feel guilty because I'm devastated I can't be a Blackhawks fan and devastated for Beach.

[southsider2k5]

9 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

When I read the investigation report, it definitely does.  

It's hard to taint what they did, but on the other hand this really does ruin the next 10 years for me.

[South Side Hit Men]

17 minutes ago, Vacheron said:

Does this ruin the past ten years for anyone else? I'm trying to be level headed but this is a lot.

I boxed up all my memorabilia, no warm memories about any of it. Had full season tickets for over a decade, still think I’ve been to more Sox games over the years.

For everyone, it’s different, and it can be fine if this doesn’t greatly impact enjoyment of past current or future. They did make some progress in terms of removing some persons responsible. 

Rocky remains, a few key players who taunted victims or were there and did nothing (with a C or A on jersey) also remain, so it doesn’t work for me.

3 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

That'll be tough, since the state of IL (and other states) have handed the Wirtz family a virtual monopoly in distributing booze.

Hell, AFAIK, restaurants arr required to pay their booze suppliers before they pay their other suppliers. 

Actually it’s much harder in Vegas since they also carry beer there (my liquor if choice these days) and two of my favorite breweries out there. They sold their beer portfolio to the “Red House” (Lakeshore Beverage) I believe earlier this year.

Have to confirm whether Wirtz gets a cut for onsite consumption at the breweries (Able Baker and Tenaya Creek), will be a tough blow for me if they do. The three tier system is very corrupt / anti-consumer.

[Bananarchy]

Well, I guess I could be a Kraken fan. Love Seattle. Inaugural season, etc.

[NWINFan]

Stopped caring about the Black Hawks a long time ago. Care less now. I don't know if this organization will ever regain credibility. The NHL? Always has been run by a bunch of mindless assholes.

[maloney.adam]

1 hour ago, NWINFan said:

Stopped caring about the Black Hawks a long time ago. Care less now. I don't know if this organization will ever regain credibility. The NHL? Always has been run by a bunch of mindless assholes.

All those championships tainted by the names of everyone involved. Most likely names will be removed from the cup now. It’s disgusting what happened and a travesty. It’s going to take years of rebuilding and healing. They are going to have to gut the whole organization out which appears to have already started. Now there’s a chance that we will see Toews and Kane traded but most likely they will just retire or quit. I don’t think there are anymore front office personnel with the team anymore that were involved. The Hawks will not be relevant for a while that’s for sure.

Edited October 28, 2021 by maloney.adam

[South Side Hit Men]

Gave proof through the night

That Bowman was still there.....

https://www.nhl.com/blackhawks/team/frontoffice

Top dog, Scotty Bowman

HOCKEY OPERATIONS
Scotty Bowman	Sr. Advisor, Hockey Operations

 

[maloney.adam]

10 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Gave proof through the night

That Bowman was still there.....

https://www.nhl.com/blackhawks/team/frontoffice

Top dog, Scotty Bowman

HOCKEY OPERATIONS
Scotty Bowman	Sr. Advisor, Hockey Operations

 

Ahh I saw this the other day but I completely forgot. He needs to fired as well.