Blake Snell and Yu Darvish traded to San Diego

[Harry Chappas]

1 minute ago, southsideirish71 said:

I wanted Springer, not either of them.  

How long do you wait for Springer?  I don't think Eaton is a replacement for Springer I just think he was willing to sign and there is a need there for a LHH.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

3 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

How long do you wait for Springer?  I don't think Eaton is a replacement for Springer I just think he was willing to sign and there is a need there for a LHH.

You don't give Eaton $7M to sit on the bench. Springer and the Sox ain't happening. That ship sailed.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

Could you imagine the type of surrender the Sox would be doing if the Dodgers were in their division? JR couldn't have a better set up. There are no big spenders in the division, the only division you can say that,  and he still can't dominate it. 

Imagine how much value Jerry could create for his ownership group by building a truly dominant team and taking over a weak Chicago sports scene?  If there was ever a time to take-short losses for a long-term gains, now would be it, because this team is so god damn likable & exciting.  With the Cubs’ curse being over and a retooling appearing to be in front of them, the causal fan could be won over in big numbers and the Sox could quickly become the city’s baseball team.  But instead of investing in his product and building something special (and valuable), Jerry is going to operate as the conservative, risk adverse cheap fuck he’s always been.  And unfortunately for us, that likely won’t change until the day he finally leaves this world.  Sucks to be that grim, but it’s the reality of being a White Sox fan.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, fathom said:

I will be shocked if Sox don’t extend Giolito in 2021

I said it before, but if the Sox are trying to save in certain areas (like RF) so they can extent Giolito & Lynn then I’m ok with that.  I’m not sure that excuses Eaton over Joc, but with the core quickly getting more & more expensive I can see the argument for not committing big, long-term dollars to RF and instead allocating elsewhere.

[turnin' two]

23 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

To be fair, Lynn has been a better pitcher than Snell the last two years.  I think it should be as clear as day now that if Jerry was unwilling to sign Bauer, that Lynn was probably our best play at a TOR starter given the insane prices for younger guys with more control.  Just sucks that we seem to have a very tight budget for 2021 and went with another reclamation project in RF as a result (this time with a minimal ceiling).

I think I would prefer Lynn in general.  But when you look at the price, give me Lynn all day long.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, fathom said:

Padres will still have a better farm system than the Sox after these trades.

We don’t know what they’d be giving up for Darvish yet do we?

[fathom]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

We don’t know what they’d be giving up for Darvish yet do we?

No but almost definitely not Gore or Abrams

[chw42]

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

We don’t know what they’d be giving up for Darvish yet do we?

I think they still keep Gore unless the Darvish deal is some sort of mega-deal with more than just Darvish going to the Padres. 

[southsider2k5]

23 minutes ago, fathom said:

With the Sox making some of their moves earlier than most teams, is the board and Sox twitter going to melt down whenever other teams make a move now?  You know other fan bases were saying they wish their team was as aggressive as the Sox during the Winter Meetings.  I can’t wait for the panic when the Twins start making their moves.

Hopefully you aren't trying to equate the "moves" of San Diego to what the Sox have done so far, because they do not belong in the same universe.  You have two teams who are in essentially the same position of a rebuild to championship transition, and the Sox are acting like they know their window is almost over while the Padres are acting like they want to win for the next five years.  They absolutely destroyed us during the talent acquisition phase, while we concentrated only on top end talent, and ignored the international market to our detriment.  The Sox COULD be shifting into a phase of owning the AL Central for the next five years, but they just don't want to act like it.

[Bob Sacamano]

3 minutes ago, chw42 said:

I think they still keep Gore unless the Darvish deal is some sort of mega-deal with more than just Darvish going to the Padres. 

I could see it being one of those big moves where more than 4/5 guys is dealt. Similar to the Clevinger deal.

[fathom]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Hopefully you aren't trying to equate the "moves" of San Diego to what the Sox have done so far, because they do not belong in the same universe.  You have two teams who are in essentially the same position of a rebuild to championship transition, and the Sox are acting like they know their window is almost over while the Padres are acting like they want to win for the next five years.  They absolutely destroyed us during the talent acquisition phase, while we concentrated only on top end talent, and ignored the international market to our detriment.  The Sox COULD be shifting into a phase of owning the AL Central for the next five years, but they just don't want to act like it.

Yet every other fan base is jealous that the Sox own the Cuban market

[southsider2k5]

Just now, fathom said:

Yet every other fan base is jealous that the Sox own the Cuban market

Great.  So now about that big picture.

[bmags]

Of starting pitchers moved, Darvish was my favorite. Where I’m jealous isn’t necessarily for any other reason than sox trying to find perfect equilibrium of budget to talent rather than building an overwhelming advantage with talent.

Our offense should be great, but it could have been the top offense in the league. Our pitching should be good without injuries, but we are hopefully able to build a great bullpen and hedge pitching with average depth.

Its the fetishizing of Quintana as like, what this team needs that bums me out.

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, bmags said:

Of starting pitchers moved, Darvish was my favorite. Where I’m jealous isn’t necessarily for any other reason than sox trying to find perfect equilibrium of budget to talent rather than building an overwhelming advantage with talent.

Our offense should be great, but it could have been the top offense in the league. Our pitching should be good without injuries, but we are hopefully able to build a great bullpen and hedge pitching with average depth.

Its the fetishizing of Quintana as like, what this team needs that bums me out.

Agreed 100%.

Edited December 28, 2020 by manbearpuig

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

1 minute ago, bmags said:

Of starting pitchers moved, Darvish was my favorite. Where I’m jealous isn’t necessarily for any other reason than sox trying to find perfect equilibrium of budget to talent rather than building an overwhelming advantage with talent.

Our offense should be great, but it could have been the top offense in the league. Our pitching should be good without injuries, but we are hopefully able to build a great bullpen and hedge pitching with average depth.

Its the fetishizing of Quintana as like, what this team needs that bums me out.

I think he's exactly what the team needs at this point.  Someone durable who can start until Kopech is ready and provide innings, then move to the bullpen and spot start when needed.  

[fathom]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Great.  So now about that big picture.

For starters, getting rid of the clown that was Don Cooper should help. He completely destroyed the pitching resources in the organization.

[bmags]

Just now, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I think he's exactly what the team needs at this point.  Someone durable who can start until Kopech is ready and provide innings, then move to the bullpen and spot start when needed.  

What if instead of trying to get a #4 starter for our fourth starter spot we tried to get a #3 starter and just made a better rotation than competitors.

[SonofaRoache]

2 hours ago, mqr said:

And are still not the favorites in their division. 

They'd be the favorites in our division if added. 

[bmags]

Just now, fathom said:

For starters, getting rid of the clown that was Don Cooper should help. He completely destroyed the pitching resources in the organization.

I think Sox are doing much better than they used to and have developed a number of specialties.

But Katz may merely be making us equal to what other orgs started.

I think it’s fair people start comparing Sox to Dodgers, Yankees, rays, Padres. I expect to beat them and think to do so we’ll need to find more edges than they have.

Too many on this board will only compare Sox to themselves, and as long as there is progress feel good. But it’s not if others are doing more and faster.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

For starters, getting rid of the clown that was Don Cooper should help. He completely destroyed the pitching resources in the organization.

Talent wise, this team MIGHT be good enough to win the division.  They are most likely a playoff team.  They COULD be one of the best teams in baseball with some key additions.  If they looked to add talent at a level that recognized this, people wouldn't give a crap about San Diego.  To try to sell to the team that a brand new pitching coach is the best addition of an off season where it is all right there for the taking is absolutely a statement on why  White Sox fans are pissed off this off season.

[daggins]

1 minute ago, bmags said:

What if instead of trying to get a #4 starter for our fourth starter spot we tried to get a #3 starter and just made a better rotation than competitors.

Based on Szymborski's ZIPS projections, the Sox already had the 2nd best rotation in the division PRIOR TO the Lynn trade. They should handily have the best rotation at this point.

[fathom]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Talent wise, this team MIGHT be good enough to win the division.  They are most likely a playoff team.  They COULD be one of the best teams in baseball with some key additions.  If they looked to add talent at a level that recognized this, people wouldn't give a crap about San Diego.  To try to sell to the team that a brand new pitching coach is the best addition of an off season where it is all right there for the taking is absolutely a statement on why  White Sox fans are pissed off this off season.

But we don’t know how they finish things off.  By all means, be pissed it they don’t do anything else. I’m sure there will be a meltdown when the Twins trade for Musgrove and bring back Cruz.

[southsideirish71]

Just now, fathom said:

 But we don’t know how they finish things off.  By all means, be pissed it they don’t do anything else. I’m sure there will be a meltdown when the Twins trade for Musgrove and bring back Cruz.

Well I think they priced themselves out of a closer.  So we will find a fixer upper guy.  We have done this before.  Same for a starter.  Looking for that diamond in the rough.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Harry Chappas said:

Maybe I am ignorant but I do not think that JR is a puppet master of this organization.  I think he sets a budget and that is it.  

I do think he has a say on major moves and is involved in conversations but isn't directing the dumpster diving and bringing in the Friends of Manny.

I also believe that while he may have pushed for TRL hard Hahn and Williams had to buy into it.  They may not have liked it but I think they would have pushed back harder if they were against it as much as this board feels they were. 

Surely you can’t be serious.  Yes he sets the budget but he does way more than just that.  He has to approve all major transactions and by default decides how much long-term risk we’re willing to take on in a deal.  He is the reason Machado plays for the Padres and not our White Sox.  He is the reason we will never sign a free agent pitcher beyond a five year contract.  Jerry doesn’t want to risk any long-term dead money and therefore doesn’t allow us to realistically operate at the top levels of free agency.

He also decides how resources will get allocated.  Jerry doesn’t like investing huge dollars into high school kids at the top of the draft, so Shirley and staff must adjust accordingly (example: Madrigal over Kelenic).  He also doesn’t like the dirtiness  of recruiting 14 year old LatAm prospects, so instead of potentially landing a future star we spend $2.5M on a future backup infielder in Yogurt Sanchez.  And for years, Jerry refused to go over-slot in the draft because of “morals”, while guys like Theo Epstein look advantage of a major market inefficiency to load up on talent.

Beyond that, he is both old school in his ways and loyal to a fault to his “people” creating a culture with a clear lack of accountability and a decreased focus on innovation.  That has slowed down our ability to modernize our scouting & player development functions and get on equal footing in terms of analytics.  And to add further insult to injury, he just undermined his front office by forcing a manager on them they didn’t want all so he could make up for what he deems his biggest mistake as baseball owner.  Jerry is a bad owner plain & simple and is no doubt an impediment to sustainable success.

[TheCommish]

13 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Hopefully you aren't trying to equate the "moves" of San Diego to what the Sox have done so far, because they do not belong in the same universe.  You have two teams who are in essentially the same position of a rebuild to championship transition, and the Sox are acting like they know their window is almost over while the Padres are acting like they want to win for the next five years.  They absolutely destroyed us during the talent acquisition phase, while we concentrated only on top end talent, and ignored the international market to our detriment.  The Sox COULD be shifting into a phase of owning the AL Central for the next five years, but they just don't want to act like it.

Or the White Sox really believe in their young group of pitchers in Kopech, Thompson, Dalquist, Kelley, Crochet... and they believe they know what they have and want 7 years of control with those pitchers, rather than moving those pitchers for 3 years of control. In that sense, maybe the White Sox are the ones looking for 7-8 years of success instead of the Padres that are trading a ton of young talent for 2-3 years of Clevinger and Snell. Padres don't have nearly the offensive talent that the Sox do with Eloy, Robert, Moncada, Vaughn, Madrigal, TA and now that the Padres are moving their young pitching talent, their window is right now, and doesn't look like it can sustain for more than 3 years. Machado is getting older, Hosmer/Myers are already past their prime, so their only offensive talent that is young is Tatis. I'd take the White Sox team as constructed right now over the Padres. 100%. Giolito, Lynn, Keuchel, Kopech, Cease, Crochet WITH OUR OFFENSE over Snell, Darvish, Lamet, Paddack, Gore and their Offense (Machado/Tatis)